MnM
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Posts posted by MnM
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People - LOOK ON THE FIELD! BK are consistently BORING every year.
Fault? Not the Kids in the Corps. THE DIRECTION / VISION is at fault.
BD stand and play. Sit and Play. Their Marching and Execution of Drill is never good
and never their strong suit. BUT they can PLAY.
This said: Cavies and PR, Cadets and Crown all consistently PERFORM and give the crowd a SHOW every year.
THIS is why they are ON TOP.
Look at the Top 6: BK cannot hold a candle to ANY of these Corps.
Before people jump in on this one... Its clear from a few of your posts on these subjects that you have a problem with the structure that makes up our organization. I would be interested in hearing more about what you have seen, experienced, and know about the direction and vision of blue knights. In being fair and open, hopefully we as a community can learn more of where you are coming from.
With that said, maybe I can give the little insight I know about on the direction and vision of the Blue Knights. Over the past 5 years, major changes have been made to the creative staff and instructional staff. For staff, current members, and alumni it has been a very turbulent time. I do have to say that I remain heartbroken that Robbie Billings is no longer with the organization. I know that was probably a very hard decision to be made after so many years of tireless service to the organization and with such a popular following with the alumni. This opened the door to hiring DCI Hall of Fame member Marc Sylvester to lead the visual design. This has brought a completely different marching technique and visual philosophy. A big chunk of consistent visual staff was turned over. On the music end, I have to say I don't know when the change over happened, but from 2002 to one of the past few years we were using Russ Newbury as the arranger and creative influence on the book. The past few years we have shifted when we brought Jim Prime on board - yet another DCI Hall of Fame member. With all of the changes at the top of the organization it is amazing that performance quality has not decreased. The last major shift like this was in 2001 - results speak for themselves at that time. As an alumni, I have not agreed with some of the decisions made, but can see that they were made for the survival of the corps. You may not be excited about the shows that the current and past Blue Knights have put on the field, but know that the organization has taken great sacrifices in order to provide a new vision for the Blue Knights - a vision many people in this community seem to respect and be excited about.
If you would like to get to know more about the vision and direction, the Blue Knights are always looking for people to help out at camps and on tour.
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Well it was nice while it lasted :)
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Well that should give both corps a jolt of extra motivation going into the last week!
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Darn wish Boston and BK could have gotten their 90s in before Indy. Could be hard to reach that now.
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BK have always been a zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzfest. Whomever is heading this Corps needs to be FIRED.
In my opinion, they are the WORST Top 12 Corps.
Sloppy. Boring. Vision-less.
They do not belong anywhere near the Top 14.
Before the bloodbath... Thank you very much, you have a nice drum corps.
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I usually don't post reviews, but there has not been many this year for some reason.
-Before the show
Bought tickets from YEA and thank god. The line for the box office looked to be 30 min or more at 7:25. I just walked up to the YEA staff and was in and out in seconds. Was in the cheep seats tonight as I brought a group of 6 new folks out and didn't want them spending a ton. We were 30 rows back on the 10 yard line on side 1 - obviously a non-ideal advantage point, but we had plenty of fun as discussed later.
-Blue Stars
I enjoyed their opening min or so and was entertained by the last 30 seconds. The meat of their show was not super entertaining for me, but I do recognize that they have put a lot of effort into the isolated visual and music programs. Probably more than everyone else tonight, but just were not as clean. The newbies liked the guard and movement package that they provided. I have to admit the performance level that the guard is at was very good. I believed they placed and scored correctly tonight. Newbies had them in 7th or 8th.
-Bluecoats
First, yes pit! Getting in on the visual package with some dance. Coming from BK in the darker years, its nice to see people pushing the envelope with more movement in their programs from unlikely characters. Obviously not exactly the most graceful or technically correct, but the effort translated to the crowd and was recognized by the show after the performance with an interview on the field. Brass was a notch up from BS in quality and volume from our perspective. Marching was cleaner and more uniform also then BS. Solid show solid sound. I had them finishing above SCV in 6th. Newbies were all over the place with this one. Some agreed with me as low as 7th while one really connected with them and had them winning :).
-Cavaliers
Definitely what I have gotten use to them doing in show design - so much going on you need multiple reads to understand the full GE potential. Drums I would have put in the top position for the night. Crowd obviously liked the gimmicky stuff, I enjoyed the story line and the brass book. Defiantly not the loudest group or the best sound quality in the brass, but had moments of finesse that were outstanding. Very solid and enjoyable show. Visually I can see many groups trying this stilt thing. It adds a dynamic 3rd dimension to the visual package and a variety in the overall movement that is going on all over. Newbies ate the cheese up with everyone thinking top 2, one thinking the top spot.
-Blue Devils
Had seen a lot said about them on the message board and would have to say that I can see where people are coming from. My personal taste is that I really could listen to their brass book for days and days. Yes it is esoteric and the visual program is a bit disconnected because of the movement of all the props, but I surprisingly enjoyed the sounds and some of the chopped up visual package they were able to deliver - it seemed very easy for them even though im sure it is very hard. It is just crazy how much talent this group has within its ranks. Park and bark subject - Yup they stand a lot for the 2nd movement. The discussion though should be about movement. I was prepared to look at this for all the groups because of the stank being thrown around here. My opinion - for the little that it is worth - is that other corps put slight - and I do mean very slight for many of them - movement in to cover these recovery or brass impact moments. A heal kick from phantom for me does add some difficulty in comparison to standing still, but lets be honest - brass players will have recovery time or low movement time for impacts. All corps do it. I can't believe I just defended BD - wow. Anywho, brass sound was top 3 for me tonight overall and probably top 2 in quality. GE wasnt there for me or the Noobs. I had them in 3rd. Noobs had them in 3rd or 4th.
-Int = Rain
-SCV
Let it be first said that I have more respect for SCV with regards to their performances and off the field class then any other corps out there. We did a lot of touring together in '05 and got close with their DMs while waiting for retreats and such. What a great organisation - I feel should be the standard for every other corps in DCI. Anyway, the show for me has elements that show why they are scoring as they are, but I think most people will have a hard time connecting with them. Visual package is solid on a individual level with lots of details going on. Brass was pretty quiet with average quality of sound tonight. Obviously a lot of demand from the visual package on them! Good crowd response at the classic vanguard moments. Good performers and best of luck this week! I had them in 7th pretty close to BS. Noobs had them in 7th or 8th.
-Crown
Ok, was over-hyped to see this show. Yes, best brass hands down. Yes, pretty monster visual package with alot of GE shoved into the faces of the crowd. Problem, no pit sound where we are at :(. No piano = music does not make sense. Good response between the 40s. Marching technique was cccllleeeaaannnnnn! Not super impressed with brass movement package. Drill was very well designed and effective. Man that brass.... I had them in 4th due to no piano sounds - so really incomplete for me. Noobs had them in 3rd and 4th.
-Phantom
What great sounds from the horn line, as usual. I think crown does have a slightly better sound quality and has more volume, but wow. Would love to play in a horn line with that effort in sound quality. Guard was wonderful and elegant. Story line was easy for everyone to follow. Just a great design and execution. I would like to see some of the guard movement translate into the brass more then the partner stuff they do, but I guess I am just greedy - always wanting more. Leg kicks are effective, just not for me. And yes tuba player, I saw you almost eat it on side 2 during your leg moment getting off balance :). Hope you clean that up for your DVD. I had them in 3rd noobs had them in 2nd to 4th.
-Cadets
Wow.... Yet another thing I never would have thought to say to a Hop group. Awesome, just awesome. I was prepared for another door on the field "great design" show, but this one actually does it for me. It is justified to me that they are getting this good of feedback. I think the ending is too long and looses the effect. I would like them to cut after the angel is there and the tarps are rolled out instead of going on for another 30 sec. Could def be different in crowd between the 40s. Brass has their typical aggressive and appropriate slightly bright sound. They get away with the quality because they all play uniform down the line. Always am in awe of their uniform sound from player to player. I had them in 1st. Noobs had them 1st or 2nd. Congrats cadets!
What a great year for drum corps. Had the opportunity to hang out with BK in Allentown over the weekend. Cleaning has commenced and the kids are working very hard and retaining! What a great show. Best of luck to all my friends on staff there and congrats to all the hard work everyone around DCI has done. Hope everyone has a chance to check out the field this year. It will be a memorable one top to bottom!
-Jason
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Amen to that. Volunteering I'd love to but my schedule won't allow for it. Now giving I can always do and have done. By the by are you the drum major from '05? I really dug that show and it doesn;t always get the press.
WP
Yeah I was a dm and learned so much from that experience. My three years in the hornline taught me the activity but that year shed light about the forces behind the activity. That's why I choose to stay out of most discussions here. I am here to support the activity and ill keep my opinions between me and the people who ask for them - mostly my freinds on staffs. I think we are seeing the end of the activity here because of costs and declining bingo incomes. I hope we enjoy these shows because I think they will be the last of an era soon. On another note, I have never seen so many people digging the bk style. You would never have heard this much static 02-05 and you would never hear people complaining at bk staying in the "2nd tier" because we were struggling to make finals. What a great thing for bk to have a "rebuilding year" or an "off program year" and still be in a solid finals position. Good luck everyone for the final two weeks and for my bk friends - I wish I was there with all of you.
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if they NEED donations, maybe new uniforms and busses weren't a good idea? i hope they'd just 'greatly appreciate' donations and it's not a question of the corps survival.
Just for some clarification, my reference wasn't just to BK, just corps in general. Just for your info, the buses are rented to get membership numbers up. New uniforms have been on the plans for a few years from my memory. Yes both were not necessities to stay afloat, but i think they were done under the thought to stay competitive and fresh. I think that most corps with fuel prices do need donations. Just my opinion, I may be wrong through.
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This has got to be the longest mid-season thread BK has ever gotten - maybe the only one other than "can magic/scades/glasspac/etc. beat bk" threads.
P.S. I think its easy to criticize (even in a constructive manner) and even easier as an alum to defend a corps or staff, but what this corps and many others need is volunteers and donations. Maybe take the time to ask what is needed to keep the activity going instead of all of this "mine's much bigger than his". You may learn whats really going on at a corps if you work a bit for them!
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Will the boston fans start another judge firing thread? those are fun.
They would have to start a few to feel good tonight
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There is going to be an ugly post about BC's color guard score. Wouldnt want to be that judge in critique.
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All I did was google it. Opus10. Loveland High School, Legacy High School
So he is not completely in the dark about where William has taught, but there is inaccuracy in his logic (by the way william has never been a part of Opus 10 - only Oracle - google it and then read). I would imagine that all judges, just like all the folks here, have preferences and direct ties to all the drum corps in one way or another. Everyone feels like they have been screwed one way or another. Just ask any BK hornline people from 1999 or 2000 about Andy Poor. How could you be a judge and not be associated in some way? Its always funny to see how parinoid people get when there is really nothing one can do about the situation. If it gets as bad as pro basketball officiating i guess then DCI has a problem, but until then I really dont see any way around the situation.
I would also like to add that drum corps is not judged on crowd reaction - even GE captions. If you would truly like to understand how they are judged, get your hands on some of the scoring sheets. They explain each section and what each box of excellence entails - very interesting read for the most hardcore drum corps fan.
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It is embarassing to myself as a Bk friend, fan and huge supporter to have read these unrealistic reviews of the corps.
Its pretty embarrassing to see both of you go back and forth.
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12 stitches later and she will be on the bus tonight! Congrats Ashley you have your own thread on DCP!
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Seams to me that the scores are going to be vastly changing in a hurry with the larger panel. I am surprised this hasn't been talked about more. Any comments/predictions with corps and their relative placements?
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From my experience, the staffs that I have been on, worked under, or taught me really varied in styles depending on the maturity and the dynamics of the group. It looks from this thread that everyone had similar experiences. What I would like to add is that staffs tend to be learning all season as well as the members. More experienced staffs tend to have a more even technique when working with members.
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Your names in your sig, dude
Word...back to work now
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With still volunteering quite a bit and being a 4 year vet of BK, I still dont think I have a good insight about what went on or goes on in the corps. Some members were told to not react to the audience adversely because they are young and unexperienced. Other members were mature enough to handle it. Some took to heart that we were the underdog. Others saw us as a top 6 group. There are many perspectives within the group that make a full corps. Please dont peg a corps on a post - most groups are much more than that one perspective.
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02s problem stemmed a lot from a rift that was created in the corps during all days as far as the visual program is concerned...
I won't say much more on that, but there were many other factors as well, as Jason said... sorry, 'MnM', it's very difficult to generalize a season such as that.
Thanks Skinner for ratting me out
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The issue addressed in the block of text I quoted from BRASSO in post 4.
edit: cant type, about to pass out
I dont think that a parent and a past 2 year member can speak for the corps.
EDIT: I would like to add that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but please put their view in perspective with their role/involvement in the corps.
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In 2002, I think there was an initiative to right the ship by "returning to the formula." Problem was, the corps didn't have the talent to make it happen. For 2003, I think the corps realized that simplifying a touch and bringing in good, young kids that bought into the program was the right way to get back on track, and that core of members hung in there till they aged out last year.
I really dont think that one can generalize about seasons like that. 2002 talent wasnt the big problem. 2003 young kids where the only ones that the organization could get.
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I think all of these issues from last nights thread and this one can be summed up as perspective. People's perspective dictates there goals of the activity, their likes and dislikes in the activity, and the entertainment value of the activity. Their perspective is formed by how they were introduced to the activity and who trained them. It seams like these forums are places for people to prove to everyone else that their perspective is the only perspective or the best perspective on the activity. Far be it from me to belittle someone else because they don't enjoy my corps or X corps. I would hope that they would try to understand what X corps is trying to put on the field and maybe gain some kind of golden nugget not seen before.
Hotlanta On My Mind - July 29, 2023
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
https://dci.org/scores/recap/2023-dci-southeastern-championship