Mello Dude

Nowhere do I direct a personal attack like you did, and derailing another thread. You specifically took my sig, modified it, and posted it up without any explanation. Where do I call everyone idiots? Where do I direct something directly at someone else?

NP Matt, I wouldn't expect you to do anything...and I have stated as such an numerous occasions. I have read the policies, have you?

Personal attack is that, is singles out a person. That is why it qualifies in your case. I am not expecting a mod to do anything though because this is simply derailing another thread should be enough.

So, a personal attack on my sig? Nice....

Outside! :) Don't think the wife and dog would have been too happy inside! :)

That's the cool thing about a meter...it doesn't have a stake in it's results. Yes, soprano's (alto trumpets) seemed to obliterate the trumpets. Yes, the pits are too loud..period. They overshadow important melodies coming off the field and I have a gut feeling that the amps are actually causing most of the issues with the hornlines sounding weak sometimes because it never really gets soft anymore. Yes, I would like the hornlines LOUDER. And, I'm sorry that I like drum and bugles corps to sound like drum and bugle corps and get more than a courtesy golf clap. The G hornlines played VERY well in tune, it's just sounds different because of the overtone series..a unique drum corps sound if you will. I am going to take a shot that you have never experienced a DCI G hornline live correct? I'll take 86-99 BD cd's ANY day over 2009.

I can tell you for a FACT that G's play louder...using a db meter. I have done this. Loudest by quite a bit are the 2 valve powerbores..by almost 3-5db against a V/R Ultratone and a 3 valve DEG (which were almost the same even though the edge on the crome V/R seemed louder). The G's, I only tested sops and trumpets, were all louder across the line and VERY much louder at a distance. The trumpets ranged from a Yamaha marching trumpet, a Bach strad and a Getzen 3003 (BTW the sweetest horn there by far..wish it was mine..lol). Equal mouthpieces and players on all horns by same players. If you get a chance someday, try it..you will be amazed...especially at a distance. So, in a nutshell, people that haven't tested and a making stuff up about Bb being as loud need to test for themselves, or really the opinions are just that. Myself, no brainer, tested and confirmed.

I have noticed that quite a bit lately be it here, politics or job.

Here's the problem Matt_S. Would you jump on someone that state's the same thing supporting your view? You can agree to disagree, that in itself is a good thing. What I find interesting and/or disturbing is the post counts on a few people (borrowing a term) "pumping sunshine" into every perceived thread that goes against their beliefs. From the banana crew derailing, to people that have 20k posts compared to the few post count people that come to speak up and get drowned out by a select few posting loads more.

I see this in here. I am pretty sure that one member was stating because he had a music degree he had a greater appreciation and another stating THEIR credentials saying the opposite.

So you agree with me, notwithstanding reading and context issues, got it. I could go on a diatribe on overtone series but I don't want to bore the masses. Are you say MikeD that changing from G to Bb had NOTHING to do with the way modern drum corps sound as it relates to what I was responding to in the post?

Actually, switching to Bb can be directly related into CHANGING drum corps into what it is today. To say it didn't affect drum corps and the product today in any way for the last 10 year IMHO is ridiculous to the nth power. It was BY FAR a defining moment, warned about, that changed the sound of drum corps. Are drum corps today loud?...yes. Are they drum corps loud?...no. I sat and watched Glassmen and Scouts work on impact and playing loud (projection and resistance) exercises for HOURS..and it was as loud as it was ever going to get. For some people, this may satisfy their limited pallet, that is good for them but sorry but I want more, and the staff agreed as they continued on the rest of the day.

I dunno, being a 100% brass player, I think I like 82 Bridgemen's drumline and what they brought to the table a hell of a lot more.

Sunshine Pumper? LMFAO...never heard that one before but it certainly fits!

I agree with you 100%. It reminds me of the "Emperors New Clothes".

Yep, but isn't it interesting that after all the PC craze we see the re-emergence (with a furor) of thin client? Which is basically the mainframe/workstation topology written off so long ago? :)

I am surprised the banana crew isn't here to derail another thread. My sig pretty much covers this.

Yes, everything is always an opinion of some kind. A standing "O" (is)was instantaneous, didn't have to be explained, and was something really cool...and we just don't see a lot of it these days. Change for changes sake is well, stupid for lack of a better word. If that change is to BETTER drum corps that's great, to change it into something that it's not or there is another medium that is the same then drum corps ceases to exist and it simply becomes MBA with no woodwinds. And yes people, there are marching bands that march brass only and have for years. The change to Bb instrumentation and loss of that unique and powerful sound has made this worse, but G vs Bb is another story. Here's the deal, say I don't WANT to be the change to MBA? What if I want the kids to have some more free time on the road (you know see the where they are and stuff), or play to a crowd with a show that would give them something to remember forever the way they moved the masses? THAT is the DCI art. It doesn't have to have a story (or show theme), explained or anything else...it just is. When art has to be explained...it is epic FAIL. The OP isn't dragging ANYONE through the mud here. They simply are expressing a VERY common (this means a majority rather than minority btw) view to a VERY introverted activity that is becoming less relevant every year. Drum is a great activity and is AWESOME...unfortunately, due to "change" it isn't really drum corps anymore and THAT is what the problem is IMHO.

So what would be considered relevant to you? Someone with an iPhone4 and a netbook?

Try being a Cub fan....ugh.

Quite honestly I am amazed the Glassmen beat Madison after watching the performance and the rehearsals, especially brass. Would love to see the recaps to see what is hamstringing Madison, cause brass to brass, no way, no how.

Quoted from over a decade ago: I will weigh in by responding to a post by Don Taylor. He writes: >I really can't see the big deal behind this. It has been my experience that it >doesn't matter what key, or brand, or how many valves the horn has when it >comes to playing in tune, or blending the sounds together, or even playing >"loud". The difference is in how well the performers are trained. The quality >of the instrument can either help or hinder the process of putting together a >fine brass section. I have to strongly disagree. Because of the fundamental length and proportional bell size, the G instruments are much more powerful and robust than their Bb counterperts; be they $1200 Bachs, $2000 Schilkes, or $XXX(indeed financially obscene) Monettes. The C trumpet has a narrower, more penetrating sound than a Bb, and the D, Eb, and G, A, and Bb piccolos are progressively more so. The G bugle (alto trumpet, actually)--a minor third lower than the Bb--is markedly different, especially out doors, where there is no acoustic reinforcement. The G instruments are the ONLY REMAINING element unique to drum corps. You can tell it's a corps BY THE SOUND. It's an easy thing to test. I've done it, and those posting can do so too. >My reason for wanting it to pass is to have access to better quality >instruments. A big part of competitive drum corps is the fact that all the units, from the Blue Devils, to the Cheeseville Curds, compete with the same equipment, thus (theoretically) making the activity about the achievement of the members, rather than the groups' financial resources. Opening the activity to multi-key brass will quickly reduce the shrinking market for G instruments (as well as their very existence), and increase the gulf between the haves and have-nots; say, the Curds playing Bundys and BD on Calicchios or (almost certainly) top line Yamahas. >At this point in time, the only instrument that has a real >advantage for our activity is the trumpet, as most Bb marching brass does not >play any better (and sometimes worse) than bugles. Consider this, however,I'll >bet that if instrument manufacturers would be able to develop instruments for >drumcorps that they could also sell to marching bands, they would all compete >to produce a great product, and use drumcorps staff people for input on how to >improve those products, and to get the top hornlines to endorse their product >(maybe even sponsorships, imagine that), perhaps we would see a DRASTIC >improvement in what is available not only for drumcorps, but bands as well .I suspect corporate money is behind the whole multi-key "push". Perhaps a company like Yamaha, who is aggressively moving into the American band market. What if your band could play the very same instruments as the CADETS!!. The BLUE DEVILS!! That would guarantee tremendous sales (as it has in percussion). I would wager it's about somebody making money, not the growth or accessability of the activity. >Now as for trumpets, a well made soprano doesn't even come close to thequality >of even a medium grade trumpet. And outdoors, a professional trumpet sounds like a kazoo next to a G "bugle". It's "apples and oranges"; the G bugle is more suited to delivering the acoustic "punch" and thrilling sound that corps fans (and bandos) love. In the concert hall (where Star of Indiana has retreated) the G bugle sounds grotesque and plays like a pig. Your argument is not unlike comparing the merits of a sewing machine and a roto-tiller; one is finer and of higher quality, but you wouldn't use it to do the job of the other. After all, it's a somewhat crude activity; hot sun, rain, sweaty kids, dirt, trucks, busses, crazy visuals, making loud sounds in football stadiums. Not the stuff of tuxedos and delicate shading and nuance. ITS DRUM CORPS. >Why? marketability. A company that makes what I >consider to be the best soprano also makes custom built trumpets. Why do their >sopranos cost $450, and their trumpets cost $1500? Think about it a minute. >Yes, they could easily make a soprano of the same quality, but how many people >would be willing to pay $1500 for a soprano bugle, when you can buy a Bach >Stradivarius trumpet for $900? As an aside, one group that I know of did have >custom built 3 valve G bugles made for them, that are of superior quality, and >play as well as a custom built trumpet, but those were $2000. (The corps, BTW, >was FutureCorps) See above. >Proposal 3: To allow the use of amplification. Submitted by George Hopkins. Should this pass---Emphatic no! George thinks pits can't be heard. They can quite well. Pits have been known to overplay the brass at times---will that be solved if their amplified? Only with a good soundman. What about when it rains and the amps have to be shut off and covered? Will this pass: No, but it will be close. >I hope this one passes as well. The issue here is not audibility, but the >quality of what you hear. I'm sure a lot of drumcorps audiences are not aware >of the wonderful colors of sound, and expressive qualities of a marimba or >vibraphone, simply because you have to beat the starch out of it for it to be >heard outdoors more than 10 yards away. These are great sounds that aren't >available because of how hard they have to be played, and the types of mallets >used on them to get them to project. The bigger issue is that the playing >techniques used to get the amount of sound out of these instruments arenothing >short of child abuse. Child abuse. Right. Manufacturers build keyboards specifically for outdoor use (where sun and rain are the primary destroyers). They are designed to take the "abuse" the activity requires. This is what most corps use. The subtle tonal colors are for indoors. This is also part of the arrangers' challenge, how to get an effect to the audience. Some won't just work. >Amplification would allow instructors to teach their >students proper playing techniques, and allow audiences to hear thesewonderful >made waterproof (or covered), and powered by batteries. If it's sound doesn't carry outside, don't carry it outside (kinda catchy, huh?). This is why we don't have groups of marching harps, lutes and song flutes. And talk about haves and have-nots(!); amps, engineers, roadies, transportation and maintanance. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sounds like a perfect way to take something relatively simple and make it complicated and expensive. Is this being recommended for the same activity whose rising costs set people to wailing and gnashing teeth? >IMO, even if these pass, it will still be drumcorps. The activity is moreabout >the experience, and the life lessons learned, and the intense quest for >perfection than it is about what kind of horn you play. IMO, it won't be drum corps. It will be something else. And it may still offer the same experiences, but only for the rich. Change if you want, but learn the real reasons, and what the consequences could be. Peter Bond

Actually, it's more about playing music, and getting your musical point across on a football field. Not having some good (I meant AWESOME..this is supposed to be drum and bugle corps) shades of dynamic contrast with some WOW loud and soft moments limits your creativity.

Actually all drum have always been bands. Just a tad closer to the real deal nowadays.