VOReason
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Posts posted by VOReason
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On 11/17/2019 at 3:31 PM, drumlaw80 said:
Ditto for allowing one corps to win every championship for decades without doing anything whatsoever to introduce parity into the organization., except tell the other corps to get better. As if that was going to solve the problem.
Actually, that would solve the problem.
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On 11/3/2019 at 11:08 PM, Jeff Ream said:
true the lack of a video product the last few years has not helped
And yet anyone can search YouTube and find full show videos of all the World Class DCI corps from week 1, thru the Championships. Does DCA think they are guarding some valuable intellectual property?
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4 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:
I read it as more Buccs so only the elite, only the elite, only the elite... I read that as “we have met the enemy and they are us”. (being your own worst enemy)
One thing is for certain. When one group has won EVERY championship except for two since 2005, with most years having undefeated seasons, and most shows having a major caption sweep, this is not indicative of a healthy circuit.
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11 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:
I don't think Buccs or CV would ever go to Open class. I think both organizations understand that being 1st or 2nd place in DCA garners more attention than being 14th (or wherever they would fall) in Open Class. I could be wrong, but it just seems like something they wouldn't do. Would they compete in an Open / All Age hybrid where DCA and DCI join forces...I don't see why not if the conditions are right. It's going to take a lot of stroking of ego's to make that happen I suspect.
Hey...Bucs and CV are pretty good and all, but they would be absolutely toast in DCI World Class.
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2 hours ago, C.Holland said:
The unique operation of the app that was used for the karaoke league, was that it only functioned in the venue that the competition was at. you couldn't log into it outside the venue or on a different day.
it was only set up for the groups or people performing, and it was only on for that space, in that venue. So there was no possible way to influence scores from anywhere else or on any other day.
And that's ok if you don't add it, others would. It's providing instant gratification that the new generation is accustomed to. Its a connection to the activity never before existing.I have no issue with this, as long a the audience vote has absolutely no affect on the competition itself. The only problem I could see is that if DCA continues to be held in PA, the BUCS will win the “clap” vote too! Talk about rubbing salt in the wound!
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1 hour ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:
Valid. But if you push DCA up one week (the week after DCI Finals,) you're only losing a week of rehersal. We've all been there. It's complicated but not something that should be dismissed out of hand IMHO. If the corps aren't all in, then yes that's an issue. My feeling though, is a little better situation for all corps might help stem any wavering.
Absolutely! However it most likely will still not change the results, which have gone from the simply ridiculous, to the absolutely sublime! Even the most loyal of Yankee fans would have a hard time watching the playoffs if the Yankees won every single championship. And imagine how crazy it would be if most years they won every single game!
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57 minutes ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:
And see I thought about that too. Where my inner struggle came in was when I started to think "then we just shift to every weekend a month earlier." It pushes the corps themselves to recruit harder, be more organized and prepared. That seems to be the model the Buccs use and none of us can argue with the results.
Sure, we could always start the season at the end of May like we did in the past, but how many corps would just come out, perform a truncated standstill, and swallow the penalty, before they were finally "ready" in late June or early July? Seems like one...maybe two corps are able to "push themselves", while the other organizations simply want to fall back on excuses about why they cannot. And yes....look at the results! The results are that virtually only ONE corps seems to win EVERY year. And how is that healthy for ANY circuit. Seems as though DCA needs to sit down with the member corps and see how many are all in. If the answer is "not that many", then perhaps they should no longer waste everyone's time.
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11 minutes ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:
I watched the live stream from the DCA Facebook page of the retreat. It was a long time but I did enjoy the Cabs Alumni quite a bit. Britt was a little bored with it, but she doesn't have 35 years of drum corps history to look back on. The dance off between Bucs and CV guard was pretty funny.
But it seemed like all the corps were completely lined up for retreat, and the Cabs Alumni drum line kept going...and going...and going...and going. I realize that you had to give time for the color guard dance off (BTW...was there a trophy for that?), however I am sure that some members of the Cabs Alumni’s drum line will be spending the rest of their Labor Day weekend soaking their wrists in epsom salt.
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27 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:
Probably wanted to hear little Johnny or Susie’s scores and saw after competition corps as interfering
I was going to live stream this evening, but due to prior commitments I was unable to see the event last night. I did however follow the event from DCP, and was able to live stream the scores on the DCA FB page. For better or worse, it WAS a CRAZY long time between the last competition corps, and the time the final score was announced. When the camera scanned the audience, the crowd appeared very small. Is this because a lot of folks got an early start for home, or were this year’s championships that poorly attended?
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2 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:
Southern Knights 80.55
CV 93.70
Numbers management at its finest! But hey, at least it appears that the Cabs won't be dumped to fourth place this year!
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5 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:
I'm not so sure though. I show Cabs tied in guard and tops in brass. Bucs and Fusion tied for percussion and we haven't even factored in CV. It could be a good year for an "upset." We'll know in a week!
Doesn’t mean a thing when the corps meet head to head. Haven’t seen CV, but having seen Bucs and Cabs, a good as the Cabs are, they would need an absolute gift in at least 2 captions.
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7 minutes ago, Fran Haring said:
Scores from the Reading, PA, show:
Class A:
Skyliners 77.80
Open Class:Buccaneers 93.850Bushwackers 87.250Fusion Core 87.150White Sabers 86.000Kind of a low score for Reading in the week before finals, especially for it being a “home” show. Interesting that we were just talking about 2014 in another thread, huh?
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1 hour ago, HBD said:
Why DCA didn't make one more corps go to Connecticut is beyond me. 5 in PA, 3 in CT. Not smart.
And dumber yet...only two corps at the Southern “Showdown” (sic). But hey, who knows? Perhaps CV will use the last score of the season, to post the high score of the season!
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38 minutes ago, Fran Haring said:
And you do tend to tilt just a tad toward the "Bucs and never anyone else, ever" side.
That was an interesting night in '14, to say the least. LOL. I'll keep my perspective from the press box, as to who won or lost, to myself.
For the record, I certainly saw the 2016 championships as close as the score indicated, however I came away from the performances clearly feeling that C2 was the deserving champion! And in 2011, I felt that MBI performed the snot out of their program, while Reading seemed to finish the season a tad stale. That being said, I never thought that the margin of the win would be found in the visual caption. But back on topic, the health of this circuit is clearly influenced by the age of audience, conflicting entertainment choices, etc., however the complete, almost total lack of parity has been glaring since 2005!
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2 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:
The design was very bold.
Edit:
That said, during/after the Cabs' performance in Prelims, but before the scores were announced, these were the comments here:
Kamarag: "Cabs are staking a claim on the high brass trophy. Wow."
C.Holland: "Felt good from here."
xandandl: "I guess the Bucs stop here?"
Jeff Ream: "Cabs take it."
kevingamin: "I don't see Reading or anyone else beating this today."
This doesn't mean you're wrong! Just that the apparent consensus here was also the consensus of the judges that day.
(Or almost. Because I think nobody here thought that Bucs would place third, which is what happened.)
Mind you, many of the same people, after watching Finals the next day both live and on the stream, said Cabs had won that night too.
Well..if Kamarag, C. Holland,, xandandl, Jeff Ream, and kevingamin thought Cabs should have won, I guess that I stand corrected! LMAO!! Might I suggest that you and the aforementioned folks go back and give it a second look. 5 years removed from the “anybody but Reading” hype may provide a slightly different perspective.
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4 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:
Lest it seem like I'm picking on the Bucs, I should be clear that I absolutely think that, based on their performances, I absolutely think they deserved their championships (except in 2014 where I thought Cabs, setting aside the penalty, were better), and I have very much enjoyed most of their shows.
Saw Bucs at the Scranton show where their “Breaking Through” show started breaking through. They should have won in Scranton and every show after that. By prelims/finals there was no program in the same zip code. One of best finals performances I have ever seen!
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14 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said:
Right, but my point was this: schedule the 2008, 2009, 2010, 2012, or 2014 DCA championships in the upper midwest, so that MBI has far fewer logistical and financial responsibilities (while Bucs suddenly have to deal with them), and maybe they win in those years.
Bucs could have booked a world cruise on the QE2 to get to finals in the years you have mentioned, and MBI...or anyone else for that matter....would STILL have not won.
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On 8/15/2019 at 1:18 PM, Fran Haring said:
The top five on that Open list are in Woodbridge, and Gold has its show in Carolina this weekend.
Perhaps we'll see a 90 or two in Woodbridge?
And I would think CV's score will take a big jump at their show the weekend before Williamsport.
All pure speculation on my part, of course. LOL.
I absolutely agree with you regarding the CV score at the last regular season show. Folks are making a big deal about the fact that CV will have no head to head matchup with Reading prior to finals. But they may have an even better strategy of ensuring the last score of the season. Look at how well it worked for Minnesota in 2011.
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Folks seem to think that the lack of competitive parity in the circuit is due to rehearsal schedules, recruitment, staff coordination, etc., etc., when the simple truth is that it comes down to program design. Bucs simply put out the program that is closest to the paradigm of the modern activity, year after year. The rest of the circuit, with the exception of a couple corps, seem consistently behind the curve.
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On 8/1/2019 at 9:09 PM, JimF-LowBari said:
Lol how do you get a Yugo to go from 0-60 in just a few seconds.... push it off a cliff..:
And how do get a program such as Fusion, White Sabers, and to a lesser extent, Caballeros to compete against a program like the Bucs? Do you tie their shoelaces together, and put bubble gum in their mouthpieces?
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On 7/30/2019 at 2:35 PM, BigW said:
Reminds me of a Richard Childress comment. Basically he said, everyone in NASCAR works hard, everyone has fantastic talent. The trick was finding the right combination of that hard working talent. Doug Fehan at Corvette Racing told me much the same in a conversation.
Personally, the best experiences I had working with HS programs were when those things all really clicked. There were a couple of years I really liked who I was with staff-wise and felt very comfortable around them, and it did make a massive difference for everyone's experience.
Even in a NASCAR race, you can have the best, and most well coordinated team, have the best owner, and recruit the best drivers, but if you enter the race in a Yugo, you will still lose!
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2 hours ago, Drboned said:
At the viewing party I was at, questions came up that quickly led to speculation. Would a spokesperson for this corps be able to answer these questions?
~ Bucs march mostly DCI age-outs?
~ If you march Bucs brass line you are guaranteed a spot in Crown or Boston?
~ same for Bushwackers percussion and Crown.
~ Why are the brass sections of these DCA corps not as “professional” looking and sounding as the drum and front lines? This includes Bucs and Cabs. Do they rehearse m&m less?
~ What is it that Fusion is doing that Hurcs aren’t? Many of us thought Hurricanes sounded better than Fusion. We were all surprised to see Fusion’s Brass beating White Sabers brass. Lots of dropped phrases in Adagio for Strings and certainly more awkward brass tone production than Hurcs and White Sabers.
I’m in the medical field and have a handful of music training. I play in a community band here in NJ that has lots of drum corps talk going on during breaks. And during rehearsals. That’s to say, I’m up on my drum corps knowledge and I have eyes and ears. What am I missing with some of these obvious misplaced sections and drum corps
I appreciate the enlightenment.
In order to debunk the “guaranteed” DCI World Class spot theory, one simply needs to ask one’s self, “Why would a World Class DCI corps such as Boston or Crown, who routinely turn away enough applicants to field an entire DCA corps, need to enter into a reciprocal agreement with ANY DCA corps?”.
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5 hours ago, BigW said:
Talent is also an issue. Bodies are also an issue. The Bucs field 60 horns every season. Anyone else close to that? Maybe CV? In several of these cases... you design to "Bucs level", you'll over-design the program and fail on an epic level. One must design for who they have, not what they should have or wish they had, or had the Bucs' performers.
The top 5-8 in DCA is a different animal than DCI. The Cabs surge this season is a pleasant surprise. With the demise of C2... pre-season, the thought was only CV could take a hard=core crack at the Bucs. The real competition in DCA is usually in the 3-4 to 7-8 spots in Open. That's where the Judges earn their keep.
Would it be nice to see 4-5 other corps really extend to the Bucs Level? YES. But that takes a lot of things falling into line. A LOT.
Understood that corps such a Sky, Hurcs, Tradition, etc., would be shooting themselves in the foot by over programming, however perennial top five programs, that are looking to make some inroads against the total lack of parity that has more or less existed since 2005, have to make more of an effort to give their folks a fighting chance. Bushwackers had a small corps last season, but that did not stop them from presenting a compelling program, and we have had DCA champs in the past with hornlines that hovered around the 40’ish mark. If the Bucs can field a corps of 60’ish horns, with a base talent level, and a show that at least approaches the modern paradigm of the activity, the fact that everyone else cannot is killing the circuit.
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Thing is that a lot of these corps, like Fusion, White Sabres, Cabs (to a lesser extent), etc, are corps lingering in the top 5 in the circuit. These are corps that are ostensibly in it to win it. These corps know what Reading puts out there year after year, yet these shows seem to come off the drawing board with absolutely no prayer against a program such as the Bucs. Perhaps it's because when you have won as much, and as regularly as the Bucs, you feel the freedom to explore more expansive ideas. In any circuit, if you do not have the show, nothing you do will matter.
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Bushwackers- going, going, gone?
in DCA - All-Age Corps Discussions
Posted
Of course not! The solution would be for corps aiming for the championship, to put together a competitive program that more closely resembles the modern paradigm of the activity. Then hire a staff to teach it, and recruit performers to perform it!