BX5CM

I guess I missed the bone-only players in DCI? Every bone player I've ever seen in DCI switches between bari and bone during the show. So you're expanding the skill set to include both valved and slide instruments during the performance. More is being asked of the performers, not less.

I have some nice wax cylinders if you can't find any... what were they called again? CDs?

Ya know I can't be sure but if I had to pick one thing, I guess it was when he said "...let's just see how loud one group is compared to another" that kinda tipped me off.

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Oh thank you Jeff. Planet Earth: RESUME ROTATION!!! :)

Bush used two solo concert flugels in 2003. Cabs went all-concert in 2004, Reading followed in 2005 and Bush went concert in 2005 as well. The test was done again recently. I remember seeing something on here just a few years ago, maybe 2009-2010 where someone did the experiment and OH WOW, surprise surprise, the horns that can play better in tune (concert) are louder... isn't that what our horn instructors have been telling us for years? :)

I have an even better idea.... DON'T!! How about that? How about you go take up tennis if you're STILL upset about that? They did that test a few years ago in DCA. It was posted to DCP, and almost universally, the B-flats were at the top of the decible list, the G's were mostly at the bottom. Experiment concluded.

No, it's not too long, besides I hear girth is actually more the issue. Thanks for your question.

Bucs usually give up their normal rehearsal space at their home show, you might be MARCHING on the field they practice on. :)

It's really simple: The corps that makes best use of their time will have the most success. I have no doubt that if anyone at Bucs misses something due to another commitment, they have to learn it on their OWN TIME and be ready to do it by the time rehearsal comes around. That doesn't happen everywhere, or maybe some corps will have a section or two that are like that.... where I have a feeling that happens in nearly every section of the top 5 corps in DCA.

Watched C2 video... they look very well trained, they are just weak and under-rehearsed and that can turn around fast if they have some intense camp weekends coming up... I'm not sure about the guard. I bet you this program will be top 5 by season's end, but definitely not yet. I think Hurcs and Cabs are definitely much better than C2 based on the videos I've seen... but... this is another week so anything could happen. My guess is the DCA judges will play it safe and sandwich C2 between Hurcs and Cabs. We'll see!! :)

Every year I've had a DCI Season pass and have seen the Minnesota show they broadcast MBI has been in it and every year I think "There's no way" and then they show up at the end of the season looking and sounding like a million dollars. Don't count them out this early.

That far down from who?? 2nd-5th place were within roughly 2 points of each other which is tight for a show this size....that means it could be anyone's game to take down Reading at this point.

That IS the basic definition of General Effect. The mechanical aspects of which you speak are the nuts and bolts of how and why these programs affect an audience... but the basic premise they all spell out is that which the original poster said... General Effect is measuring and qualifying the interaction of the audience and ensemble. As far as Madison's show... if you really break down that show, the only truly "toss the babies" moment was "Empire State Of Mind" at the end... it was an isolated moment... the best shows create moment after moment that build through each musical idea and throughout the entire show... Madison's show was all about the last moment, not the whole show.... so that's why, in my opinion, they didn't score as high, even with that HUGE moment... because that's all it was... one moment out of a 10 minute show.

I vote for a revival of this corps... http://drumcorpswiki.com/Hormel_Girls The corps also had an expanded article in "A History of Drum Corps Vol. 2"

I can just see all the homeless mothers leaving their babies on the steps of your rehearsal site... as they run away tearfully, they think... "Some day, my baby gone' learn to spin rifle and play the drum!!"

So by saying "Your looks count for something." You are, in fact, insinuating that you thought the corps isn't really concerned with its appearance. Hmmmmm, care to clarify that statement?

Ok could we talk about this idea of a "formula?" Can someone please define what we mean by "formula?" In my opinion, this is a fallacious idea whose time has passed... First off, I feel that it's a disturbingly ambiguous term that slights the design efforts of a GREAT many writers. Let's use the textbook example... The Hawthorne Caballeros. No one has more wins under their belt in the ENTIRE HISTORY of the activity than Cabs, and no one gets more CRAP for "sticking to a formula" than Cabs. Quite frankly, that couldn't be less true of them. They play music that fits their persona and in my opinion, you'd be hard pressed to find a corps that comes up with MORE new show ideas with the firm caveat that it be within that persona than Cabs. Some of the music might be similar, but you can't JUST look at the music... how the visual team interprets the music is a HUGE part of design and Cabs ALWAYS seem to put new spins on old classics. I mean, at this point in the corps' history, can anyone think of anything HARDER than coming up with a COMPLETELY fresh and original Cabs show?? If one checks out Cabs' website there is a video section where they have probably 80% of their videos of the last 30-40 years. Someone please, go watch all the videos (I've seen most of them) and identify this "formula" for me. Just the fact that they play Latin music every year HARDLY qualifies as a formula. That's a genre. I'm going from personal experience, but as a former marching member... Cabs' only formula has been that they play music that fits their persona... that persona has been constantly evolving and changing with the activity. Is the 1980 show the same formula as the 2010 show? Is Cabs' 1995 show IN ANY WAY similar to their 1996 show?? HARDLY. Go back and look at the 70's and early 80's... some of those shows were WILDLY experimental and envelope-pushing for the time and there is no discernible "formula" that I can identify. I would take issue with anyone who says "I've got a FORMULA for a winning show." There are FAAAAR too many factors for all but the VERY best groups to reproduce optimal results year in and year out. Most of the time it's just the luck of the draw for that given year. Bucs have been very lucky that no one has figured out a way to train their membership better and write a better show on a senior schedule... that's their formula. Can anyone really, HONESTLY say that the 2005 Bucs show was similar in formula to any of their other championships of late?? Yeah... me neither.

Exactly John...in general effect the judges are not reading the audience for reaction, they are a PART of the audience and they basically go along with the corps for the ride just as an audience member would. They are looking at how much opportunity for communication and VARIETY of communication the design allows, and how well the corps is achieving that design. There are 3 main types of effect in the marching activity and they are... Intellectual...the easiest example of intellectual effects is when the designers LITERALLY depict different aspects and complexities of the music in several different ways simultaneously in the drill, ie - different stages showing different speeds of music... regular time, half time, double time, etc. In that example you are literally "seeing what you hear." We make the audience think. Emotional...this is the easiest one... for example if your show is about love and you have a couple run into the center of the field and kiss... pathos, drama, surprises, etc, that all falls under emotional. We make the audience feel. Asthetic... using the example of the show about love, an asthetic effect would be the corps forming a heart shape on the field. The audience identifies that the heart shape ties into their concept about love. We make the audience identify. Asthetics also have to do with achievement... achievement DOES play a role in effect... if the judge is not able to read an effect because the performer isn't maximizing it yet, it is impossible for them to give full credit on the sheets for it... how could they?? they can't read it, and the judge CANNOT guess or assume what the corps MIGHT be going for, they must only judge what they see and hear.

Lots of very familiar faces returning to the fold! Sounds pretty exciting for the corps, all the best on this new chapter of the corps' life! GOBUSH!!

Here is my question... is this mainly for kids local to the Cadets? How is a high school student from Texas going to take advantage of this program? Where would they stay during the week?

Guardling, How right you are!! Sorry if it sounded like I was hammering on older members, if you take a look at my post in its current state, I changed a lot because I'm not trying to pick on older marching members. I have nothing but respect for a 56 year old man or woman who is still standing out in the sun all summer, sweating and baking along side their fellow corps mates. I was just making the point that good training is good training and since I'm NOT old (yet) I probably notice it more from them than I would from others. Sorry about that.

Just remember, there are two numbers on the sheets... rep and performer. Corps like Bucs, for example, score well on BOTH. They aren't just getting credit purely for the demand of their shows, they can also perform said demand proficiently. The reason that corps like the Buccaneers (and I'm assuming Cadets2 when they take the field) are able to handle more visual demand is because they train their members and strengthen them to handle it ON AN ALL-AGE SCHEDULE. If more DCA corps trained their members as well as the Bucs do, they would be scoring closer to the Bucs... I believe it has very little to do with the age of the members. The reason I think this is that I've marched in senior corps with more modern visual training my entire career, I've also marched beside 50 and 60 year olds that KICK BUTT at it because they embraced the training, really dug in and wanted to be great. Age IS a factor, but not as much as people think. There are older members of Bucs, Cabs, Bush, etc. that embrace these new training methods (just the ones I know of guys, not meaning to disclude any corps) and the older members keep up just fine. So if more members do their homework, learn to move in a way that is credible on the sheets TODAY and do so in a uniform manner... younger will not automatically mean better.

Whoops, never mind, I need to read the whole thread next time. :P

Andy, I think YOUR premise is flawed in that drum corps doesn't attract "pop corn eaters off the street." Drum Corps attracts a very specific niche audience, the people you are referring to are not Drum Corps' main audience, not by a long shot. Their main audience and main source of revenue both on the spectator and performer sides of the coin, is the kids. The greater crowd reaction you are referring to is because it's an alumni show... filled with drum corps alumni... many from a time where it was considered rude NOT to scream at the top of your lungs through the whole show. That was drum corps culture back then and it's amazing that we live in a time where the activity can cater to both the old and new school drum corps fans.