CuriousMe

It's surprising to hear that, all other feedback I've heard was that Bridgemen were very, very well received at East.

Bridgemen don't drink until after practice or performances. I've heard some alumni corps make different choices, but we practice and perform sober.

My Mom and Dad both marched Jr Corps (OLPH Ridgemen and the Marionettes respectively), Dad marched Skyliners after that. All three of us kids marched Jr. Corps, with 25 years between us in 5 different corps. We were a drum corps family, I grew up listening to drum corps albus and don't know what my first live show was because I was carried to it.

A very similar thing happened in '85, '86 and '87. There were a lot of age outs in '85, and then in an effort to push the envelope of what could be, in '86 they decided to increase the hornline from the standard 60 some odd members (this was back when the corps limit was 128) to 80+ and have an incredibly minimal guard (I think there were 12 gals in the guard in '86). So, in addition to losing most of the hornline to age outs, they increased the line size by twenty members. We had A LOT of rookies in '86 (including me!). It was a very tough year and a testament to all the rookies who came back for what became a historical year in '87. FHNSAB...

Of course, but when has that expectation been there for the general public? I grew up in a patriotic family, we flew the flag, we learned how to care for and respect the flag, my Dad, and my Grandfathers were vets. I've never heard of stopping your car for the NA off of a military base.

Stand respectfully till the National Anthem is finished, sure...I'm on board. Stop and pull over my car if I'm driving by with the windows down? That's new to me (and I was a scout, learned all the proper flag handling, etc). It seems to be a bit of overkill....

Am I able to read the entire post, or am I just allowed to read that line?

And there's the crux of our difference of opinion. I think he was honest without being rude.

I'll take "too much honesty" over "only telling me things I want to hear" every single time.

From the amount of times the "50 million dollar school" was mentioned in the replies to his post....my guess is that folks got their nose out of joint because Cadets chose not to stay at their shiny new high school. He wasn't speaking about his "preference" for the south or not....he was saying that he runs in to more housing issues in the south and because of that the corps avoids touring there. I still don't see that as a slam.

Yeah, this paragraph of his post didn't make the "news" article (news being a very generous term for that article) "Pass the word. We will travel. If we can get a location within an hour of the stadium we are fine; an we will pay if we have to. Now, we do have some stadiums we can move to during the day, but we want the drivers to stay asleep, we like to be self contained and we like to work hard." The whole point of the post was to ask local Cadet Alums/Supporters if there were alternate sites available. Which there were.

He was looking for a solution....new housing sites, that's how this nonsense started. But if you mean a solution to the larger problem....housing sites in the south. What solution are you thinking of, getting all southern states to start school later? Get them to change their focus on their own football and marching band programs to free up rehearsal sites? I know many consider George to be "all-powerful" (after all, he single-handedly destroyed drum corps right?), but I think these issues are beyond his scope of influence.

Does the fact that I included it give a hint that I still see nothing wrong with saying it? This is from someone who has lived both in the NorthEast and the Deep South. He didn't say that the south was bad, he said that the corps has a hard time getting the facilities they need in the south. That's not an insult, it's a statement of history.

He didn't say there was anything bad about the location, he said it didn't fit their needs. If people choose to from zero to outraged in seconds flat, that's their choice. Except he wasn't looking to say anything about the specific site other than it didn't meet their needs. He was saying the same thing about the south, that they often have trouble finding sites that fit their needs. He was commenting on why the Cadets don't come south as frequently (which people do ask of him, ie "Why don't Cadets come to XYZ region of the country more often" That doesn't mean the south is wrong or broken, it means that the Cadets have trouble in the south finding sites that fit their needs. Again, if someone is looking for a reason to be outraged, I suppose this is enough. But otherwise, it's a non-event.

What personal feelings did he share? He stated why he hesitates to bring the corps down south. He talked about the fact that their housing/rehearsal sites weren't meeting their needs and asked if there was someone who had a location that would. But we agree that the indulgence of sharing personal feelings on the internet is a favorite pastime. In this case it's most evident in the people venting their spleen about how offended they feel for being told a housing site wasn't meeting the corps needs and that the corps has had this kind of problem often in the south.

So just leave out what actually happened? To what end? He didn't say anything that was untrue, they have historically had problems getting housing/rehearsal sites in the south, folks do want to know why they don't go down south more frequently. Folks are just looking for a reason to indulge their favorite pastime, being outraged and offended.

So just leave out what actually happened? To what end? He didn't say anything that was untrue, they have historically had problems getting housing/rehearsal sites in the south, folks do want to know why they don't go down south more frequently. Folks are just looking for a reason to indulge their favorite pastime, being outraged and offended.

People need to get over themselves. This whole incident is just more evidence supporting the premise that people enjoy being "outraged and offended." What didn't George say: The south is terrible, southerners are terrible, southerners are uneducated, the town was a dump, the school was a dump What did George say: He doesn't like bringing the corps down south because they have problems getting what they need in housing and that on this trip "we do not have the sites we need to truly get to work." So, they chose to not stay at the brand new 50 million dollar school, to stay at a school that wasn't a brand new 50 million dollar school. It was obviously NOT because they thought the original school wasn't good enough for them. Additionally, the whole point of the post wasn't to whine and complain, but to use the corps' network of alums and supporters to find an alternative. It's hard to do that "privately" as some have suggested.

It's all well and good to say that it's about the activity and not the kids....but once the "the activity today isn't drum corps" comment is made....how does anyone, with a straight face, say....no disrespect to the kids? They've decided that the activity which current members (that they think of as drum corps) have given their heart, time, sweat, money, blood and who knows what else to isn't "really" drum corps. Geesh, how disrespectful!! What qualifies me or any other former marcher to define the activity for members today? That's all well and good, but what if the current members don't want what we had? Drum Corps hasn't changed in a bubble, our entire society has changed. Again, it's a different world now.I marched in a number of small corps during the early 80's. In speaking with the folks I marched with, many have said they'd never let their kids be a part of an organization if it was run they way many were back in the day. Buses that were falling apart (can you imagine asking kids to push start buses these days?) no liability insurance, no true medical staff, no background checks on ...well anybody, volunteer drivers who may not have had the exact endorsement to drive the buses/truck, volunteer drivers who drove for far longer than was legal, minimal medical consent forms (if any), inconsistent nutrition, etc Of course these weren't issues at the time, and no one ever thought twice about most of them (I'm very thankful for all the Mom's and Dad's who gave so much of themselves BITD), but never mind best practices, half that wouldn't be legal today. But that's how a lot of these "community-based" corps operated (no not all of course, but many). Of course a small group could address all of these things today, but that takes cash (cash on top of everything they needed cash for back then). The other big difference between now and then of course would be the "community" part. VFW/American Legion's and Roman Catholic Churches were major supporters back then (not the only ones of course, but many corps were backed by these kinds of organizations). At least in the NE, each town had a drum corps (or many), they way they have little league teams now. While it's of course not impossible to get community sponsors these days....again, it's just not the same as the period of time you're speaking of. Show design has changed as long as there has been competitive drum corps. Everyone thinks their decade/era is the best way to do things. Each successive era has decided they know a better way. Other than trying to solve this at 20 paces with pistols at dawn...I don't really seeing there being a definitive "this era" had it right and all others should emulate them. My .02, CuriousMe

Yup, the undercut. It was a heck of a lot cooler too!

OP, I think it's a false dichotomy. Realistically, it's more likely that the person with experience....also has talent. But I agree with some of the above posters....attitude/work ethic trump both. The corps has to live and work together for months....no talent is worth the poison of a bad attitude.

Calling finals "Nats" wasn't uncommon on the East Coast either.

Not only do Cadets have a booth at the USBands shows, but they also have a free concert before leaving on tour, do local parades in northern NJ and have a program where members or recent age-outs go in to local High Schools and speak about the corps.

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth while I was marching and in HS, (now, this wasn't even a band that competed...we're talking football games and one field exhibition) I went up to my band director as soon as I got my tour schedule and told him I couldn't attend band camp. He asked why, and I told him (I was the first person to march corps from the band). He said he wanted to see the tour schedule. I brought it in the next day, and once he looked at it....he said, "but, band camp is during your last week with this group....there's only a few shows right on these last days....you have all these other shows, couldn't you just miss these last few to attend band camp?" I was marching Garfield that summer ('87), and of course the "few shows" he wanted me to miss were of course the World Championships! He did threaten to kick me out of band for not just missing those last few shows and going to bandcamp. I stuck to my guns, and he let me in band.

I don't know if Phantom did this, but we certainly did! I still automatically hear it in my head when standing in the aisle of a plane, waiting for everyone to find their carry-ons so we can all get off the ####### plane! Of course the complete musical statement is "Get off the ####### bus, get off the bus, get off the ####### bus, get off the bus." Hey, it gives me something to do so I don't feel the need to hurt people as I get frustrated with folks who only realize they need their stuff....as they stand up in everyone's way.