Puppet
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Joe,
A couple of guys tried to wear them in 71...but they were told to leave and come back when they had their haircuts. They came back a couple of hours later.
Part of the problem is that they wore the cheesiest and cheapest wigs that existed..they looked ridiculous.
And, from the office of the redundancy office: There will be and never has been a head carpet that didn't look cheesy, cheap and altogether ridiculous. With my basketball-sized Afro in 1969, I am so glad that the Kodak gods were dozing down in Miami we all looked like clowns! Not so bad once you got the shako on but I gotta tell you!
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Power Mellos
I didn't know Power made Mellophones. Hornsup thanks for the correction on the French Horn.
I never got to play any of those. We went right from the Olds French like the one my corps mate Joe Luginsland has (kinda slightly tilted there) but an awesome player!)
Like I said in a previous post ... we had some really good players - of course we also had Hy Dreitzer who actually played French (g-slide, nuff said!) and the guy to the right with the Euphonium, Snowball was also one of the best on the field ... but when you're standing next to Ruben Ariola every rehearsal what can you do but get better? What I'm trying to say is that when you're marching the smallest horn line, even second rate journeymen like me had to carry his own (Tic-less)weight. Side note: The Euphonium line and I think we had 8 gave us a mid to bottom range sound you had to hear to actually believe ... we never had more than like 16 sopranos (lead, 1st and 2nd) and those Euphoniums written for 2 voices supplemented by the French and Mellos in the mid range gave us a sound that blew up from the "inside out" unlike most corps at the time who had their sound from the "outsides" Soprano and Contra on in.
Last thing: Marching hard with that little tiny mouthpiece was torture. I know carrying a 18 pound monster Euphonium must have been a little crazy but those instruments had a remarkable range made even more notable by the guys who played them in our corps.
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Hello all,
I'm currently working on a new cymbal book for my students and wanted to include some information in regards to the history of the cymbal line in Drum Corps. I would love to obtain information in regards to adaptation of styles over the years, garfield vs. pistol grip lines (which technique was used first and how did it evolve), sizes and types of cymbals and how those changed through out the years, how the visual application of the instrument evolved and when/whom was at the forefront of this, pictures -- ALL OF IT!
I would really appreciate any and all help/stories/information that any of you would be willing to provide. I have seen other instruments given such treatment and wanted to do the same for the cymbal players of the world.
Thanks in advance!
Cheers!
I have to say that I wouldn't know a GARFIELD FROM A PISTOL if you hit me in the face with a Zildjian or you pasted me in the head it's little brother, Paiste! What I do know is that way before there were rifle lines there were these guys who were not snare drummers who needed a little limelight and they would do things (like spin them, etc. in between the times when they were supposed to hit them together) to make themselves noticed on the field. It was like GE not written into the show. I think these days SCV have a cymbal line famous for their antics. But back in the day, and I do mean BITD there were gallons of Brasso being used by cymbal guys for a reason. So you've got to start your search a little further back than when people starting naming their grips ... because there were cymbals with wooden handles and those with straps and even spinning handles that went on way before there was color video.
Just saying.
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St. Rita's Brassmen (Puppet's old corps). Dunno the year....some time in the 70s?
That is correct. St. Rita's 1969 - our first year as the Cinderella Corps From Brooklyn, New York!
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Jeff Kozol marched Cadets in 1989 and the Crossmen prior to that. He instructed a few cymbal sections over the years. In the 60's and 70's there were plenty of cymbal sections that were flashy, the big change came in 83-84 with Garfield's cymbal section and the use of orchestral technique (at least on the east coast)
Our guys were kinda flashy even pre DCI.
Mickey, the player in front turned out to lead one of the best rifle squads around, too.
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Both George (Sidemouth )and Ray (Konga )are in the Bugler's Hall of Fame.
Ray
So there you go! We had some darn good players in that little horn line. I wasn't among them but I played my parts and looked good on the field - I guess. Hy did let me play in the Calliope one year and I was a "Siren" during Woodstock. My Drum Corps life was complete by that.
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Never saw frenchies like this before, being a former french horn player I had to post it. From the Commodores site.
They were from Olds, I think ... Her's a pic of one from the Des Plaines Vanguard BITD.
Funny, I don't think that many corps used Mellos, French & Flugelhorns - just not enough bodies. We did do Flugels and Mellos then went to all Mellos a year later.
But that was back pre DCI when great hornlines only had about 30 or so players.
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As far a Seniors go, what's the actual name of that Skyliner soloist called "Sidemouth", and wasn't he recently hospitalized?? Any updates??
Sadly, both George and his brother Raymond (both Brassmen and then Sklyliners!) have transitioned to a better place. George was a quiet guy who kept getting better and better as a player and he should be in the BHOF! Golly, do I have stories about him on tour that will make your bladder burst!
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Hair nets were the call of the day from about '69 until '71 when I joined the Air Force Academy - we were all pretty much a hairful group.
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http://www.centorino.com/cproductions.htm
listen for yourself - he's as good as ever, and a very good composer... He and Richie Price together were the biggest 1,2 punch in drum corps until Richie teamed with Joey Pero 25 or so years later.
Jim is also famous for showing up at a show (Barnum?) in a helicapter after his wedding...
Everybody seems quite sure of themselves but are you really?
I would have competed against him in say the 1968 and 1969 World Open - in two different uniforms ...
I remember El Captain and Unsquare Dance from those years (Hava Nagila of course) but I never associated that great solo with Boston somehow ... they say things don't get better with age - they get different.
We had a soprano name of Jimmy Maldanado ... he's in the BDCHOF along with our superb Bari guy Rubin Aeriola.
Thanks guys!
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While we're doing flaglines . . . . . . . .
You know, I've forgotten - but those uniforms look somewhat familiar. My first thought was Trumbull Troubadors but there's only about 30 women in that line and they look to be an indoor competing guard of some kind, not a guard of a full corps like at a standstill or something like that ...SO .... tell us already?
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Jeff K., Harpo, the soloists from Madison in 75, North Stars sop soloist, and my personal fav from way back.....Black Knights from Oswego, NY hadan awesome soloist in 72 or 73. He was as good or better than all those guys and I heard he was really a sax player!
OK, Keith. Only you or perhaps Mike Boo or even Frank Dorritie would possibly know this one.
I had it on a Fleetwood recording ... my very first purchase of many to follow ... time: the 60s. The tune: OTL Captain From Castile Where: McCormick Place Chicago. Maybe it was St. Kevin's or the Cavaliers. Featured a wicked triple-tonguing soprano solo that ended somewhere around F or G above high C.
Who was that guy? Because it was he who solidified my need to be in Drum Corps.
Oh, yeah ... do Mellophone solos count? Because there have been a couple of woman behind those horns who have completely blown me away - oddly enough one from each coast I believe.
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Well fellas, I have been trying to pick out a few memories - this is my 65th year of involvement in and love for this fabulous activity. I am sure I have forgotten a good deal of them, but some linger in my emotional tales:
First hearing the Cavaliers play Sing, Sing, Sing at South Milwaukee - likely in the early 50's
Participating in the shared fun of all the different corps staying in that school in South Milwaukee
Drum corps night every year at Riverview Park in Chicago - parading among the coasters.
Barnstorming through various downtown areas - in streets and stores in our coveralls
I thought the best music came from the Kilties
Then I saw the Royal Airs at Nationals - indoors, in '65 at McCormick Place
Being fascinated by Madison's fabulous cymbal line in the 40's and 50's
My first viewing of Santa Clara at California State - all that Fiddler!!!
Seeing my then-eleven year old girl pick up a rifle and really do it - VK and Kingsmen
Seeing that child win DCI twice, with two different drum corps
Being very proud of Kingsmen kids I used to chaperone turning out fabulous drum lines - Tom Float
and Ralph Hardimon
Meeting two precious friends, fans of 27th, with whom I travelled to several DCI's - '78 to '90 or ??, and
they surprised me last Sunday at Rockford.
This feeling never goes away. Most of you know that, and if you don't know yet, you will.
Millions of memories, thousands of kids to love. Blessings to all.
I wanted to reply directly to your post last night because you did dredge up some great memories. Natonals, '65. My very first Fleetwood recording. As a horn guy I guess I didn't appreciate St. Kevin's as much as I did the Cavaliers on record. What did I know - I was from the East and I was only 15 at the time. One of the best indoor recordings, ever.
Too bad with all the technology available, Lucas still sounds like an oil drum wrapped in plastic sheeting.
We first competed with the Kingsmen in 1969 and I almost cried when I saw the uniforms. We'd just left our old Parish and name (St. Joseph Patron Cadets) and our beautiful powder blue cadet uniforms for St. Rita's and the wore the red, white and black blouses. Kenosha and Racine, WI and a week later at the World Open in Lynn. That year, that tour was a truly heady experience for a bunch of kids from Brooklyn I must say. I loved the horn line sound and later would come to think of the Kingsmen guard (the rifle section in particular!) as one of the truly class acts of the activity.
Thank you for your time and your continued love of Drum Corp. I look forward to reading more of your posts.
Puppet
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Awwww ..... welcome to DCP and this particularly wonderful forum.
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I marched back in the 70's, and I would say that the collective talent today is MUCH better than what we had back then. But where Piper taketh away he also giveth. There were brass players back then who were just amazing, and were playing on instruments that today are museum material. I don't know if some kids today could do that, or maybe I just underestimate them. I don't know.
And I still have to pipe up here Piper: Because the so-called talent these days are not more talented. They are, by definition, more schooled and on average eight years older than any kid starting their drum corps career WBW. The so-called kids these days are old enough to vote ... we were not. Talk to most every uniform-wearing first year on the field in (what was then) a top echelon Drum Corps and most couldn't read music. The pure talent of those performers at the time came from verve and nerve and months of practice and rehearsals with not one minute of private lessons and (need we have to mention this yet again!) i t w a s a l l f o r f r e e!
I'm not on the fence about this. The "KIDS" these days can't do what we did because they won't do what we did, their organizations can't afford to allow them to do what we did, they don't live close enough to where their corps is from to do what we did 12 months of the year, they don't care like we did because they are not as young and wide-eyed as we were ... I could go on but let me leave you with this: As The Cinderella Corps from Brooklyn New York in 1969 - when there were riots going on and the world was literally going crazy about The War and Race and all kinds of wacky stuff - we traveled and competed under an umbrella of quiet civility except for an minor incident in Jacksonville Florida where a restaurant owner wouldn't serve us because we were "MIXED". Drop the "KIDS" back there at that time without their technology and connectivity for one weekend (and I'll throw in thee motels and hotels we used to stay in on tour!) and they still wouldn't be able to do what we did. And here's the kicker ... switch it around ... we would have been able to do what they do now ...we would have had more time to get it right (six months, right?!) - we wouldn't have to tweak the shows they way they have to do now. And BTW by 1972, most of the CLass "A" world class corps were already bringing theatrics and had already by then been playing music the "KIDS" these days still couldn't wrap their chops around.
Just saying....
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I checked that the Cadets did 32 shows last year. That's pretty close to what the corps did decades back. Some years in the 1980s, the Cadets and Madison did more than 40
contests per season (heck the Cadets WON 41 contests in '83!), but most corps didn't approach those numbers.
I hate to start any post with "yeah, but ..."
But yeah, but where and when are you going to get 41 corps in the same place at the same time at one contest?
That was the draw BITD. Dozens of corps participating in a prelim show (and you always kinda knew who would be in the finals) and there were the Moms and Dads and the fans and all the stuff that went with that every weekend. From May to (most times) September.
Granted we were not the professional musicians or the studied clinical spot-by-spot drill, hyperventilating granola munching, gym sleeping herculean athletes who have to spend thousands of dollars for the honor of being treated like third class citizens ... but 41 wins a season must be worth something. And from what I hear, the Cadets haven't purchased new uniforms in decades ... Now that's history.
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Not as good as yours but here's one I like.
It's OK. I like it! That's why I like this one, too.
I'm too old for them to be any closer.
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1969 World Open
Des Plaines: Coming off the line with sirens screaming
Anaheim Kingsmen: First look at what would become an outrageous drum line (see '72 DCI champs)
BAC: pure ######
And finally... Troopers: the tightest show ever performed in that era (IMHO). A crowd response that completely drowned out the Corps' exit and reentry.
Although I grew up a drumcorps brat and undoubtedly had been to shows before this... that was the first show that I can remember ever attending. A gorgeous day, the best corps in the country, the Manning Bowl. My old man saying before each corps entered the field " Wait until you get a load of these guys". I don't know if any show could ever recreate the magic that was in the air that day. (Honorable mention 1977 DCI Finals)
On the Senior side: Fresh Air Fanfare (1973 I think) Skyliners semi chaotic Traffic Jam culminating in the rip your face off Company Front, Les Diplomates OTL and the Hurcs' "Impossible Dream" fantasia.
Regards
Full disclosure after my last post. I am soooo old I forogt how old this thread was. so as I'm reading through all the posts and I come to this one and I gotta ask myself: "Self, did you reply to this great post before?" I can't remember. But that weekend ... the prelims and the finals was crazy drum corps wild at it's most memorable.
Can you imagine anything like a completely packed ( back and front stands and standing room only?!) Manning Bowl with thousands of folks all the live long day watching 41 corps compete these days? On a Thursday?
Can you imagine being in the Troopers that month?
They traveled from Racine (#1) to Batavia, NY (#1) to Lynn, MA (#1) then Lowell, MA (#1) and when they were done with America, they went up to Toronto for the North American Invitational Championships and took #1 there, too.
BTW, this is not really my memory but darn if I were a 60 Trooper alum I'd be all over these pages with that one.
My memory is all about Manning Bowl - no better venue {although Marion, OH came #### close!} anywhere before or since. Pack in the World Open prelims and finals, The CYO Nationals and cap it with the Danny Thomas Invitational - all outdoors all on grass - and there is a weekend of Drum Corps for fans this world (no matter how "good" the activity gets) won't witness again.
Oh yeah ... 1969 World Open ... pretty darn good memory for this Brassmen during their first year on the field, too!
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Your words are Coat of Arms. um I'll try to explain. Way back when, instructors had brief cases that contained sheet music or in my case, graph paper with X's for drill. Here's my briefcase from September 1977 (that I photographed in March 2011) with decals I collected during our 10 week tour of 13 European countries. Here's side 1. There are 2 sides to a briefcase
Excuse me dear Sir but I just finished watching over 8 hours of 2011 drum corps on Fan Network from Minneapolis. Awesome! Goodnight.
I forgive you for being tired. I know that a Viceroy is like a rep in a colony or territory for a monarch which is why my thinking led me to believe that because a Viceroy has nothing to do with the military there are no corps with that name (like Regiment, for instance).
On your case (briefcase - which coincidentally is sometimes called an "attache" case) were actually called heraldry Really. But you knew that but you were tired and I forgive you. Here's a little something about coats of arms you might like after this Regional Weekend is over.
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I've never seen a reference to any corps using that name.
Of course it was the cigarette reference that got me thinking about that ... I know a Viceroy was some kind of appointed title in heraldry back when everyone had a coat of arms so it was probably more political than martial and that leads me to think that's why no drum corps with that name. Although 27 or Kilties probably had a person in the corps who was the Viceroy of something or other ...
Just kidding ...
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OK. So i wasn't much of a fan back then but I've got to say (and this is without reading all the comments here) 1984 Cadets . Why? The best darn Mello solo ... ever! Barb Maroney pretty much made me cry. Say what you want sometimes that one moment is one person taking the entire corps on their backs and taking the crowd with them.You can hear what I'm talking about at Middle Horn Leader - All About The Barbara
You will have goosebumps ... I promise.
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Thanks Brian, read somewhere that Hawthorne Cabs were in an old cigerette commercial but can't find any info. Just bought a DVD set of 1,001 commercials with couple of dozen cig commercials but no Cabs. Have Lucy and Desi in a few and even the Flintstones pushing Winstons but no Cabelleros.
Too bad I don't know much Jr corps log/uni history. CT Hurricanes Sr/All Age corps was named when a hurricane tore thru their home area. And the ligthning bolt logo is the storm warning flag symbol used by ships.
And all these Cavalier posts causes me to ask the question - Was there ever a Viceroy Drum & Bugle Corps anyone's ever heard of?
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Lindap - this could be taken at the old Boston Garden during a standstill/contest call The Drumfest. Usually in late April - early May. Corps had their music selected - and you had to learn a quick drill to perform in a hockey arena.
Check out BAC's white bucks with black polish around the sides of the soles and heels.
Eat 'em up Boston !!! can always be heard at any contest just before the corps performs.
Lately, without sounding like I'm bashing modern Drum Corps or anything mind you, I have been thinking about those great preseason shows from back in the day. In my mind the premier of which was held at various venues in and around NY and NJ. Memorably the Mosque Theater in Newark, Carnegie Hall and Madison Square Garden's Felt Forum. Those were where fans could get a real sneak preview of what the corps' were working on for the previous 6 months. And, as evidenced by Mr. Winkler here ...
...was a lot of fun for the corps, too!
DCI, IMHO would do itself and the fans a great service by sponsoring shows like that again. Just saying ...
Puppet
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I suspect Santa Clara Vanguard would have place second or third had they gone to VFW Nationals in Miami - 1970.
I marched against your excellent corps that year and saw you first hand several times. You were the best corps on the field that year . . . period . . . end of discussion (in my opinion and in the opinion of many drum corps folks - some now in the DCI Hall of Fame - who saw your corps that year).
But, having been around the activity since 1962 it seems to me that VFW was still a very traditional bunch of folks at that time, including the judges. I think the judges, without implying any "conspiracy theories" of any kind, would have individually made SCV "pay their dues" a bit before letting you win a title. The judges were just as protective of tradition back then as Tony Schlecta (VFW overseer) was back in those days.
Troopers deservedly won VFW that year. Boston, Cavaliers, and Blessed Sac all could have been either second, third, or fourth, IMHO (they finished in the order I just listed them behind Troopers). I think it would have been difficult for SCV to beat all four of those corps that year as all four were very good that year and all four were well-respected, traditional favorites.
Regardless, I think SCV would have been the best corps on the field at VFW had they attended.
Quick story about the first time we all saw SCV when you came to the midwest during the middle of the summer of 1970. We knew very little about you guys when we saw you line up at Michigan City, IN for the show that night. For some reason I think you all went on last. We (the Cavaliers) were in the back stands watching you as you came off the line playing Procession of the Nobles." We weren't really paying attention except for the fact that your uniform was very similar to ours, but with an aussie instead of a shako.
As your show progressed it was apparent to us, and all present, that the horn and drum sounds (tuning, articulation, difficulty, et al) were WAY beyond what were expecting to hear from such a young looking, and virtually unknown corps.
We saw our instructors, Paul Litteau, Sal Ferrera, and Larry McCormick (drill, brass, percussion - all in the DCI Hall of Fame) talking together in the back stands as your show was nearing completion. Many of us went down the stands to gather by them as they looked very intently at your corps.
I'll never forget what Paul Litteau said when he turned around and looked at us . . .
"Gentleman . . . you have just witnessed the future of drum corps."
You beat us that night by 1/2 tenth of a point, and by a full point or more the next night. That night in Michigan City, after the show, your drum major handed our drum major a small white noose in the parking lot. It was not received by us with any disrespect. We admired the bravado of your young corps, though we were mad as hell for having been beaten by you whipper snappers.
We traded that noose back and forth for a few times but sadly wound up keeping it from 1972 - 1992 or thereabouts. That same noose is now in your corps' possession since around 1999, I think.
Feel free to keep it a while longer.
Seriously, all respect to your great organization. If I would have had a daughter instead of two sons, she would have marched in Santa Clara Vanguard!
Gee, Paul. That was priceless ... and if you could have just supplied a photo of the youngsters handing the noose back and forth from 1970 to like 1973 it would be right on topic. I like SCV for a number of different reasons ... I liked the '65 Cavaliers, too. For the same reasons - why I like any good corps the year or years that they are good - Horns and how the line plays... '65 Cavies - awesome - SCV probably more so for more years out done only by Star (but nobody beats Star's line or books during the early 90s ,,, and none has come close in over a decade in my estimation but see there I go ...
no pics and way off topic OH MY GOD Could We Have Been So Young? Sorry - even then I wasn't.
Hair nets?
in Historical Junior Corps Discussions
Posted
Jeeeze! That would have made me look like the original Kid 'n Play! But the answer is no ...
This is however
what I might have looked like at a rehearsal.
The nickname Puppet instead of Tootsie Roll Pop was just fine by me.