Gantang

You caught me! I know it will never happen but I would love to see a miracle.

It does tear at the heart strings.

I agree with that last part 100%. Sadly, Madison fans have been shouting for change, and the black hole that is the BOD ignores the pleas. As much as I'd like to have objective and thoughtful conversations, I know that people are frustrated to the point of anger. My hope is that The Corps with Madison in its Name will find its identity, attract BD-level talent, have the best-designed show of 2024, and rise from the ashes to push for its first championship. THAT will show that everything they've done in the past four years was a brilliant move.

You ask for an honest and passionate discussion and ask for staff suggestions, but also make it clear no one can mention changes in leadership. Nothing anyone suggests will become a reality unless your banned subject is addressed. Your restriction creates an exercise in futility.

I did err...I pulled the snip it before taking out SCV. THANK YOU!! Boston 3 to 4 (using the tie to place them in 3rd) Mandarins 9 to 6 Blue Start 6 to 11

AFTER REMOVING SCV from the scoring in 2022, here's how the corps stack up this year. Five corps didn't move Crown and Boston swapped spots Mandarins moved up 4 spots. Blue Stars moved down 4 spots Colts, Troopers and BK moved up 1 spot Remember, this is after removing SCV from scoring and placements LAST year. (Like they didn't exist) The Commandant's Own remains in the same position as...forever! ❤️ 1 Blue Devils 98.275 Even 2 Bluecoats 96.988 Even 3 Carolina Crown 96.95 +1 4 Boston Crusaders 96.738 -1 5 The Cadets 93.613 Even 6 Mandarins 93.35 +4 7 Phantom Regiment 93.163 Even 8 The Cavaliers 92.038 Even 9 Colts 90.038 +1 10 Troopers 88.725 +1 11 Blue Stars 88.55 -4 12 Blue Knights 87.088 +1

2023 Final score 82.988 4.1 out of 12th place .488 out of last place in World Class. Final placement 16th. (SCV would have pushed them to 17th). They were only 1.71 ahead of the Open Class Champion. All metrics are worse than 2022. 2023 Final score 83.725 3.7 out of 12th place 3.475 out of last place in World Class. Final placement 15th. They were 2.675 ahead of the Open Class Champion. By what metrics did Madison improve this season?

With DCI centralized, there is no longer a need for the stadium to provide exceptional service. It's what happens at every Colts game. Things might be different if DCI rotated and the stadium management had to attract DCI back. The UW got complacent, too.

Phantom was always my "hotdog" corps. They were in the top 5, and I couldn't stand sitting through their shows. If you don't like the product, why would you reward it? I'm certain the Gold Medal will fulfill the kids more than getting the claps.

Hi Chris, I was vague on purpose, but I thought my point would be figured out. I know that the DCI model has changed since I marched. Most kids stayed local BUT marched for the best corps they could. The pinnacle in Racine for guys was the Kilties, but there were lower-level corps in the city as well. Madison had the Junior Scouts, and Capitolaires, and Capitolaires Petites. Chicagoland was filled with corps, so my question would be the same back then as it is now. Do members choose to march in a particular corps because they want to be competitive? Madison's philosophy that winning don't matter is BS. (Did any guys age out of the Junior Scouts?) Very few kids will choose to march in a corps that isn't within a few-hour drive unless they're a legacy or have a band director who marched or taught there. My thesis is that if a kid has to fly, they'll go where they have a chance to place high. I think knowing where kids audition and who they pick when they have several options would give an interesting perspective.

YES! The vicinity of the corps is mostly irrelevant! My proposed survey would tell us whether kids care about winning. I'm in the California North State, 2 1/2 hours north of Sacramento. Had I grown up here, I would have auditioned with BD, Mandarins and then SCV. If I had been offered a spot with BD, I'd have taken it. If not, I would have hoped for a spot in one of the other two. In the midwest, I would have auditioned at Madison only. Phantom wasn't my style of music, and Cavies...meh, not a fan. Thankfully, I didn't have to audition because my work in a smaller corps spoke for itself and when I did change corps I was welcomed with open arms. BUT, I wasn't chasing a ring. It wasn't necessarily a thing "back in my day". 🤪

Where did they audition, who offered them spots, and where did they decide to march?

But there's nothing wrong with that. 😉 I'd like to see how the Bay(ish) Area kids decide where to audition. Sacramento is a bit over an hour to Concord and 2 hours from Santa Clara. SC is 2 hours from Concord. The reality is that there are 3 top 8 corps in that less than 2-hour triangle. Madison, La Crosse, Rosemont, Dubuque, and Rockford are all within a few throws of a stone. Talent distribution is an interesting metric.

I'd like to see a survey (anonymous) of every marching member to learn where they auditioned before they settled on their current corps. It would be informative to see where kids would have preferred to march had they been offered a spot. It could be done online with a sign-in code given via email to each kid. Current corps: Hometown: Age: Years of DCI Experience: Auditions attended: Positions offered: EDIT: Question: Will a kid go to the highest-placing corps that offers them a spot? Does winning matter when they make their decision WHEN given options? Thesis: Kids care about competition, and they will accept an offer from the corps that placed highest in the last Finals. Audience approval is less important than placement.

Please make leadership changes next week.

La Crosse is only 2 hours away.

And what does that mean as a brand or identity? The People in the actual city of Madison are anything but a cohesive group of individuals coming together with a common goal and an agreed-upon way to reach that goal. The leadership that's been in place for 40 years has made decisions that have led to the demise of a once great, safe, and quirky city. The leadership has turned Madison into a mediocre, unsafe, and awful haven for the homeless and criminal elements, all the while telling the long-term residents of Madison that their opinion is useless and unwelcome because they are trying to hold onto a version of Madison that has long since died. We moved away because being one of the People of the City of Madison was no longer enjoyable, and our quality of life took a dump. Will 17th place in Semi-Finals be considered Scouts taking a dump? (SCV would have smoked Scouts, so make that 18th.)

I agree with you. Masculinity was just a part of the Madison brand. The show designs Post-Mason have been worthy of the placements Madison has witnessed. I DO NOT want them to try to emulate the swagger of the early corps. I want them to be a corps that fits in the current landscape of society and drum corps. As for bad-arse females in drum corps...100% agree. The first corps I marched with had a guard that scared the crap out of people! That was back when flag pikes were aluminum and had to be straightened after every show. The girls I dated who marched have some of the strongest minds of all of my friends. That came from marching or was enhanced by marching...chicken/egg??

Define "who" the 2023 version of the Corps with Madison in Its Name is. What is their identity? This has nothing to do with the addition of girls; it's more akin to a merger and having to create an identity. Band of Brothers doesn't work. Marching Brotherhood doesn't work. When the Imperials of St. Pat's and Thunderbolts merged, they needed to create a brand and identity. The Thing took the field in 1973 and was rebranded the Pioneer the next year. Pioneer certainly had its unique identity. When Bobby Hoffman went to the St. Andrews Bridgemen, he ditched the traditional uniform and outfitted the corps in their iconic uniform. The way they marched, left the field and fell to the ground after the final note are all part of their unique identity.

This spurred synapses like nothing in the 80 pages of this thread. Blue Devils have had the same identity since 1976. Cavies have had the same identity since forever. Phantom has had the same identity ...you get my point. THE Madison Scouts had an identity that wavered a bit but never waned until the addition of girls. DO NOT STOP READING HERE AND START BLASTING ME! It is impossible for a co-ed madison scouts to have the same identity as THE Madison Scouts. Masculine only works with guys. Pulling the brim of the aussie down so that no one can see your eyes was bad arse and was something Madison was known for. Here in lies the rub. What is the madison scouts' identity now that they have added girls? We're several years into this and no distinct "brand" exists. They should have hired a marketing consultant to walk the BOD and leadership through a process to determine who the madison scouts would be. It's not, nor can it ever be, "Aussies malagueña ice castles". A show shouldn't need a libretto for people to get what the corps is doing. They should be able to understand the show by watching and listening. The same thing is true with a corps' identity. When I look at the co-ed seasons, I don't recognize THE Madison Scouts or the madison scouts. It's time for them to figure out their brand so that the show designs can be tailored to it. Unless they do, they will never develop the cohesion that BD and the others listed above have.

Go back and read the entire thread. It's in response to bonehead moves by Scott Stewart. It's a historical perspective on the "scores don't matter" and "judges suck" philosophy. Sal and Michael immediately started rebuilding a relationships with the Judging community because sending non-English speaking members to critiques was incredibly insulting.

2002

ATE works, too.

It was politically devastating.

I was specifically responding to what he wrote about Scott's bonehead moves. "Stewart made some bonehead moves in the early 2000s that changed the trajectory, so it's not completely wrong to point at him as a foundational element in the decline." Not that it's Scott's fault that the corps can't rise through the ranks 20 years later. But his actions did begin a downward trajectory when he was asked how far he was willing to let the corps' placement slip, and he was unwilling to commit to the Board's desire to remain competitive. The following year the guard was practically non-existent, which in turn made recruiting guard members in the following years impossible. You get the point. The dismal competitiveness and lower-tier talent throughout the ranks has everything to do with current leadership.