Tekneek

From my point of view that is true, but as long as they stick to the venues already open to them there is little room for conflict. I know they are in marching band and that I generally don't care for it. That gives me the option to avoid it. The only thing I've seen that is more ridiculous than some marching clarinet player hyping after his solo was the emo kid's script with The Cadets this past summer. Marching band is an already existing venue for marching woodwinds. Drum corps is drums, brass, and guard. I cannot imagine ever understanding why woodwinds have to be involved. At best, a new classification of drum corps could be created without instrument limitations. The idea that the entire activity should be subject to woodwind inclusion all of a sudden is very unappealing to me.

Heheh. There is a reason they are called easter eggs. If you don't want to look for them, don't worry about them. You didn't buy it for the easter eggs anyway, right?

Will drum corps survive if the only people buying tickets and merchandise are the members' parents? If so, then the attitude that drum corps is only about what happens off the performance field will float. If not, then some consideration of the audience will have to be factored in. I know that when I marched we cared more about the audience reaction than our score. Getting a reaction from them was definitely part of the experience. It isn't the only thing that you get out of it, but I didn't know anybody involved in drum corps that had the kind of contempt for the fans that some of you in this thread do.

If they tell me that, because they march them I should be pleased to have them infiltrate Drum and Bugle Corps, I will. I attempted to clarify what I meant in a later post.

Maybe they only care about the experience of the member. If so, I hope they are prepared to pay a whole lot more for that experience. The money missing from the budget as both show money and merchandise sales begin to dry up will have to come from somewhere.

Playing the education card is a last ditch attempt to grasp for relevancy after making changes (and discussing more) that have turned off increasing numbers of the old guard. Problem is, as others have pointed out, serious music programs generally don't appear to appreciate DCI's style of "education." So they back themselves into a corner and now believe that drum corps has to be re-invented as marching band in order to fulfill this new "education" mission they've accepted. At the end of the day, I fear they will create something that will only be relevant to those involved and their immediate families. That they will destroy what is left in the activity that many born before 1985 still strive to enjoy and support.

Clearly the presumption is that more people watch and enjoy marching band, so the more like marching band they can make it then the more success they will have. If they just allow electronics and woodwinds, drum corps will be all over TV, invited to all the big parades, and a major network will be lining up to broadcast championships LIVE! Plus, all the college music professors will be extremely pleased and sing the praises of DCI to all of their students. Why all of drum corps has to change into summer marching band instead of creating another class called "Summer Band"/"Unlimited" or something like that is beyond me. Then we could really see if more people enjoy that experiment and are drawn to it. This class would have its own championship, just like Open Class does/will, and we can see if the masses are just waiting to explode with joy for this concept. Those of you in support of this concept should be ready and willing to launch it as a test concept and see how well it stands on its own before forcing it upon everyone else.

But, at the same time, BOA isn't busy marketing the big bands that are performing at some other venue while expecting a significant crowd to go see their Finalist units. Your comparison doesn't take into account the business reality that may very well be damaging Div II/III attendance. People would have had to find their way to Pasadena City College and then back to the Rose Bowl for events taking place on the same day on Friday and Saturday this past summer.

College professors should learn how to respect individuals and how they will do what they want to do. Being a college student does not mean you are owned by that school. Perhaps when these professors are bankrolling DCI they can unilaterally change the way the entire activity works to satisfy their own ends. Please give me the evidence that drum corps are hurting for members because they don't play woodwinds. Please give me the list of drum corps that have folded because they cannot get enough members to compete. Since this is such a bad problem that wholesale changes must be done, I expect the list to be extensive.

I don't find the comparison to be equal, but please share with me how you determined that the biggest marching band competition in the country should be compared to the crowd drawn by smaller drum corps at an alternate venue.

Don't do drum corps if it isn't your cup of tea. I knew some people that played woodwind instruments outside of drum corps, but they didn't complain about carrying their horns all summer and wish they were allowed to play their saxophones, clarinets, or flutes. They loved drum corps for what it was, else they never would have bothered. I'm not sure where the motivation comes from to make sure everybody gets to play their little instrument of choice in a drum and bugle corps, but let me know when Harvard is forced to accept all prospective students and maybe I will see the light regarding this universal acceptance idea.

Thank you for bringing this up. Allow me this opportunity to attempt to clarify my thoughts. I put "ends justify the means" in quotes because I did not mean that he is up to some sort of fraudulent or otherwise ulterior motive. It is just that I feel he is willing to make wholesale changes to what I feel defines drum and bugle corps to meet his goals. That he would prefer it to be a free-wheeling atmosphere where anything you can get onto the field is legal to have there. IMO, DCI has intentionally reduced the involvement of smaller corps in regular shows and Hopkins would take it even further by taking a top 6 into their own tour and reducing every other corps to minor league roles officially. That, to me, is being willing to compromise what defines drum corps to satisfy your 'growth' ambitions for the 'activity.' Meaning that he is willing to try whatever it takes since 'growing the activity' trumps all other interests. Scott Stewart, on the other hand, appeared inclined to define drum corps as what it was at the time (maybe even rolling back a bit) and work within that medium to continue entertaining and educating just as they had for decades before. That cleaning up the process and restoring virtue to it would create a solid foundation for the future. Drum corps, as it stood back then, would still be able to find plenty of prospective members. I can never recall a single person from the late 80s and early 90s saying things like, "If only they would allow woodwinds...", "If only they had electronics...", or "If only they had microphones out there..." then I would sign up and march drum corps.

Did that audience have a higher or lower percentage of alumni than DCI Finals might usually have?

I think competitive winter programs (aka "indoor shows) go back at least 15-17 years. From a non-scientific personal-experience point of view, I know people that marched corps in the early 90s and winter programs, who care about drum corps still to this day but barely know that winter competitive programs even still exist. It just never held them the same way. To be honest, I don't know anybody that is not connected to a participant, on staff with a participating unit, or teaching some potential participants, that even attends these events. I stopped following marching band once my sister moved on from it and had stopped being on staff for any before that. It still matters to me how well Spirit does each summer, but most years I don't even think about marching bands I have been a part of.

Just curious, do you think these other things have as strong of an alumni following as DCI and the drum corps activity in general does?

No woodwinds. Or, if you do, no woodwind features allowed and no amplification of them allowed. I am not interested in a drum corps show where some woodwind player hypes about their big solo. The "marching arts" do not get any more ridiculous than that. They are great instruments for their place, but I don't feel they belong on a field. The brass, drums, and the volume they generate is what attracted me to drum corps. As the emphasis on them is reduced, the activity becomes less interesting. Drum corps can keep chasing that elusive mainstream acceptance some seem to crave, or they can settle into the niche they occupy and do it really well. I'd choose the latter. Essentially, to me, Hopkins has taken an "ends justify the means" attitude where as long as they deliver the goods on audience numbers/etc, it validates whatever compromises have to be made along the way. Scott Stewart thinks how you get there is at least as important as getting there at all (and probably more important, ultimately). I agree with that philosophy in life as well.

Hah. Nevermind. I didn't see any of the woodwinds, and obviously didn't hear them either. ;)

I saw some unit that really reminded me of drum corps (performance and sound wise), but they were all dressed up as clowns. Anybody watching catch who it was?

Surely you jest, since there aren't any values, morality, or ethics left to buy into...

Whether the Scott Stewart approach would work in our society today is meaningless to me. His message is much more compelling. I believe much more strongly in what Scott Stewart is saying than what George Hopkins is saying. George may be more in line with what works for most people, since few seem to want to be tied down to a values structure that governs everything they do. Hopkins may well have a good idea that works for today, but in the long run I would be happier with Scott Stewart's vision and think it would "win." Those in the Hopkins' camp would end up with something that they never bargained for. At least if you hold true to some basic ideals and concepts about what drum corps is, you know you will be able to keep your base. Hopkins et al would rather gamble it all for the big prize and could ultimately end up with far less than they ever imagined they could. I had never read any of this before, so it was enlightening for me.

Terrific show. The last show I saw that I thought was really great. Not my favorite of all time (Star 1990), but definitely one of the best ever. Were they 'trumpets' back then, or sopranos? :)

Besides that, how would anybody know whether a corps was in good standing? I'm curious what qualification process is involved. The Neptunian corps is likely to operate on a completely different financial system.

I wish it worked like that with DCI. For scheduling reasons, it makes sense that they would need to be informed in advance of your intention to compete. However, arbitrarily limiting the competitive field never made much sense to me. Looking over score archives, which might be incomplete, it seems to me that there were corps over the years that may have only competed in a handful of shows all summer (including going to DCI Championships). I would surmise that they have not always had "tour requirements" placed upon the corps or other restrictions that kept them from beating bigger and more established corps.

I would rather have everybody go on the field for a Prelims on Wednesday or Quarterfinals on Thursday. I also think it is quite silly to call Div I "World Class", which presumably is superior to "Open Class", which is what they were called BEFORE the Div I designation was created. So, somehow, after years as Div I, they have ascended to "World Class" status and Div II/III are the new "Open Class" corps. Why not call them "Major League Drum Corps" and let Div II/III be "Open Class" still, so it can be like when the Pacific Coast League wanted to be a major league, but weren't allowed on the field with the big boys. Do mini-corps become "Class A" now or "A-60"?

Why restrict it like that? Why not let any "Open Class" corps come to Thursday that want to? Or at least open it to more than 3. What is the reasoning for capping the entrants to Quarterfinals anyway? I'd like to see a minimum of 6 "moving on." I also thought it was funny how the DCI site makes it sound like the name "Open Class" is a brand new idea. Also interesting how they have 'upgraded' the division I corps in this process, since they used to be called "Open Class." Now it looks like they are somehow an improved version of what they used to be.