Sutasaurus
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Posts posted by Sutasaurus
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2 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
they feed the kids, staff, admin and volunteers 3/4 meals a day and snacks...not cheap. schools to rehearse in don't come free very often anymore. insurance....not good. and yes fuel...and one truck for props is at best 1/5th of the fuel budget
Yes, it is expensive to operate a circus. It’s a shame that's what modern day drum corps has become...a traveling circus... props included.
Getting back to the original debate, if a regional model returned to drum corps, more local units would be able to prosper This would offer opportunities to a whole new raft of women, people of color and LGBTQ individuals. Let the winners of the regional competitions go to finals. The national touring model is stunting the growth of the activity. DCI was built on local organizations and then they were forgotten.
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1 hour ago, Mello Dude said:
No, that is money used to transport a ton of stuff around the country. I suppose if you are resume padding you could add "professional prop mover". It's the cost of remaining competitive or as I say it more plainly, "buying your way to more points". Seriously, it's being WAY overdone anymore.
This is sort of my point. When does the spending on smoke and mirrors stop and those dollars released to bring the activity to more individuals. Trust me, I know it’s a broad concept but how far does the current trend go before it blows up in their faces?
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1 hour ago, Poppycock said:
Staff drives a lot of the budgets. The tuition fees don’t put much of a dent in capital expenditures or overhead
Operational cost of 1.8 and 2 million annually, some more. IMO tuition fees are pretty low for what is actually being provided to the MM.
Unlike the pre DCI and early DCI year’s with a lot of regional circuits, the current DCI touring model doesn’t allow for or encourage new start up groups. Many organizations have recruiting challenges and it’s not always attributed to the incurred cost of membership fees.
Thank you for this additional information. My question now is: Why does a drum corps need a $2M operational budget? Is it keeping up with the Joneses? Why has it come to this? Ok, so tour fees don’t play that large a part in a competitive corps’ budget but the fact is that many talented would be students, designers, etc are getting priced out of the game because of DCI’s business model.
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13 minutes ago, FlamMan said:
But unfortunately that isnt enough today. Organizations compromise qualifications and expectations in order to become more diverse, and it's a darn shame. Can you imagine what some of these whackjob crazy people would say if they looked at the demographics of the drum corp activity?
I resemble that remark!. The only point I’m tryin’ to make is DCI has become elitist. Make it more affordable for people and the activity will grow.
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3 hours ago, LabMaster said:
Many corps have become inactive because of many other choices of activities for kids today. BITD when there were many corps around (about 140 in eastern Massachusetts alone in the 70's) there were limited recreational/extracurricular activities available for kids. There are very few corps remaining in the area but there are lots of other activities, sporting and otherwise, so dilution of participants eliminated lots of corps. It is not one thing by itself that inhibits diversity. You are talking about economic diversity and there is certainly that aspect to consider and I appreciate you continuing to make that point. However you are disagreeing with me on that point when I was responding to another point and I wasn't arguing with you on your point. I I don't believe what you are saying is what the OP was bring up. The question initiated was asking why there are no (or few) women in positions as designers, caption heads and corps directors. Expanding on that point would be bringing up why there are no other or few other ethnically divers staffs. So it really was not about economic diversity or opportunity for MM;s as much as it was for corps staffing in key positions. My point was that it will get there, over time, organically (not a "noble" idea but a reality) as corps become more diverse (and they are) and MM;'s move to instructional positions, design positions or management positions in corps.
We both make our respective points. I maintain the notion that when DCI becomes “more affordable” you will probably see more people become involved, including women and minorities in marching, teaching and corps management roles. I realize drum corps is a niche activity, but I believe there is enough interest to support a more inclusive approach. The sad part is that DCI is pretty much the only game in town. Not sure if you remember back to the days before DCI. American Legion, VFW posts ran the competitions. People were fed up with the politics that ran pretty rampant within those circuits and so DCI was formed. DCI was the answer to the problems of AL and VFW. Could DCI’s days be numbered?
I am NOT saying DCI is corrupt, but it appears that people are having issues with how corps pick and choose their staffs ( an effort that is pretty much dictated by DCI ). Is the umbrella organization doing enough to encourage diversity within it’s membership by making decisions that continually inflate the cost to field a competitive corps?I’m not so sure. If you make the activity more affordable to more people, you give new folks the opportunity to participate in drum corps in all capacities.
As long as DCI remains a very expensive pay to play activity the gears of diversity will grind very slowly.
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1 hour ago, LabMaster said:
I wasn’t speaking to economic diversity and I don’t believe the subject of diversity in the postings here were looking at economics so much as they were looking at social diversity; lgbqt, minorities and so on and the opportunities (as mm’s or instructional and design staff and management) that are available, or soon hope to be. By the way, I had to forego traveling to nationals because I couldn’t afford it. I paid my own way to march. No one, parents included, helped fund me. Diversity will come about organically as younger generations begin to progress up the ranks, so to speak, into design and instructional positions and in management. We are seeing the beginnings of this now.
I applaud your ability to finance your marching experience. Just like college, when you pay your way you get more out of the experience. I too financed my way thru years of marching.
Unfortunately, diversity isn’t organic, it’s a noble idea but not a reality. Especially in DCI’s case. It’s pay to play. Why have so many corps become inactive? The cost to be competitive in DCI has gotten outta control and because of this, many potential marching members will not have the opportunities that we had. DCI as an organization and it’s governing body need to open it’s arms to drum corps in all it’s diversity, financial diversity included. That’s when you’ll see a more inclusive activity.
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2 hours ago, LabMaster said:
And what has that all that got to do with diversity of members and staffing? Apparently you missed my point.
Perhaps you need to re-read my statements. Money has EVERYTHING to do with running a DCI finalist corps. Not every student can afford to play drum corps because of the costs involved. I am addressing economic diversity. You may have had the good fortune to have parents who footed the bill for your marching experience but many very talented students don’t have those means. My point is make DCI more economically feasible for more people and diversity will follow.
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4 hours ago, Spatzzz said:
Staff and props ARE NOT the main driver in tuition fees for corps members. This has been stated hundreds of times on DCP alone. Travel, insurance, food, fuel, housing etc are the bulk of corps budgets.
Now back to the inane and dumb debate over whether your potty plumbing should be a determining factor in being offered a staff position.
Thanks for the keen insight. Spoken like a true corps director. What the corps do not raise via corporate sponsorship/fundraising will end up being paid for by the students. The cost for an additional vehicle, staff to maintain said props is just not that easily absorbed. Why do you think students pay thousands of dollars to march? Just because you say it’s been stated to the contrary on DCP doesn’t make it true.
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2 hours ago, LabMaster said:
Our local high school is diverse because any student who wants to be in the band no matter their ability to play or march, can be in. That alone creates diversity or the opportunity to be diverse. In a college band I taught, it was diverse because anyone who wanted to be in it, was in, as long as they could play or spin and march. Drum corps may be less diverse because they are looking for a specific level of participant and that may create some limitation on a "natural" diversity like some bands. My point is that it is not necessarily a given that DCI is equal to marching band in terms of diversity. DC is more diverse than it used to be and will continue to be more diverse as time goes on. It is generational and as generations age and become more tolerant and accepting, diversity will follow. It may not evolve as quickly as some would like, but it shouldn't be forced either. IMO.
I see your point but you can’t ignore the financial aspect. Most bands function during the school year and travel expenses are minimal. Compare this to drum corps where try out/rehearsal schedules require travel through the fall, winter, and spring months in addition to tour fees make it a much more expensive activity. Many corps are forced to increase their participation fees to cover not only top notch staff, but electronics/props and god knows what else to make it into top twelve status.
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1 hour ago, kdaddy said:
Without hesitation, I disagree. In the student ranks, and definitely in the design and caption management ranks. I have not found drum corps to be as diverse as the US population. But I'm really only referring to design and caption managers.
And without hesitation, I agree with you wholeheartedly here. Of course, I in no way talked about increasing minority involvement of marching membership, but you're free to tangent however you please. I'm referring to inspiring current marchers to be the next set of designers and caption managers by enabling them to see themselves in those positions. Diversity is for them to witness and experience and learn from, not for you or me to write about on a website.
But ultimately, I really don't understand how you can disagree with my premise: drum corps should be more intentional about getting a diverse body of people in design and caption management. Your argument is "hire the right people, not losers," and I don't see how I'm suggesting to hire incompetence. Nobody (except maybe Getoffmydot) is suggesting quotas, though that's the typical anti-diversity argument. Designers should do their best to mentor a diverse group of designers. Corps should embrace and encourage it.
Empathy isn't easy when one doesn't have the same common experience (and I'm guilty of this - I'm so white, I'm like the ghost of Tilda Swinton). A lot of folks on here don't understand what I'm saying, and that's okay - I really hope corps leaders do.
And my apologies for doing my small part to keep this topic alive. There isn't much on the merry-go-round these days, but I don't see any need in closing this thread.
Ok. Tilda Swindon indeed! Too funny! Maybe Regiment could do “Orlando” for 2020?????
Your comments about diversity in instructional staff has to start with the realization that drum corps isn’t financially accessible to many potential marching members. There are tons of gifted people who don’t have the $2800+ to play drum corps for a season.
Let’s start with “financial diversity”. Get DCI to acknowledge that not everyone has the bankroll of the top 12 corps. DCI created the disparity between corps based on what X or Y corps can afford to put on the field. DCI is now rewarding how a show is designed over the sweat equity the marching members put out to refine and perform what they are given. Some call this idea old fashioned/irrelevant but it is a founding principle of today’s drum corps.
I’ll take the flaming, I don’t care. DCI should reward accomplishment over design.
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3 hours ago, MikeRapp said:
Drum corps is so far beyond the norm as far as diversity that you can’t even compare the average population to drum corps.
The best way to increase minority involvement in marching membership has nothing to do with the “woke score” of the corps leadership; its reducing the cost of entry for kids from minority households. Drum corps is expensive and getting moreso.
Winner, winner chicken dinner.
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2 hours ago, xandandl said:
Mr. R. Dougherty, sir,
This is too good to stay hidden. Well done. https://youtu.be/rAPdZlWnzOM
Yay! Thank you.
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3 hours ago, general_tsos_chicken2 said:
I thought they always had a great palette when sage was there previously, especially 2005.
One of my favorites!!!!! That show embodied so many elements Regiment is known for. Laid the groundwork for Faust and Spartacus.
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10 hours ago, bandguy78 said:
It’s also nice to see that the people calling for Rick Valenzuela’s head in the 2019 thread have seemingly gone quiet!
Not necessarily.
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1 minute ago, LabMaster said:
And we are only one month in.
True dat
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12 minutes ago, Cappybara said:
Yep, and if he was still in the Program Coordinator/Brass arranger position, I still would be. Judging by what xandandl said, it seems you and Continental have misunderstood my position due to the fact that I don't mince my words so I'll try to be more clear: just because I do not feel like WP was not fit for the roles he was in does not mean I dislike him as a person or want him out of the corps entirely. Those are assumptions and ridiculous leaps in logic to make.
I watch every single vlog/post/video that comes out from the Phantom Regiment social media, I can see the positive impact he makes on the corps without even being in the corps. My position has always been from the beginning that in the right role, he'd be a net positive for the corps. But in the roles he was in for the past couple years, he was not, in my opinion, a net positive. To blindly follow someone due to their loyalty to a corps without acknowledging their shortcomings is not my style, and I'm sorry that I offend you because of that.
That is all I have to say on it, if you want to further air your grievances, be my guest, but you will not be getting a response from me unless it's a PM. I am moving on to focus on 2020 with this new design team that I am VERY excited about
Your condescending nature is like the proverbial fingernails on a chalkboard... there is no misconstruing what you have posted here. You have had a basic dislike of what Will has done for the corps....since day one. Please direct me to a post of yours that said Will would be a net positive? You say you didn’t attack him personally??? Saying he’s unfit to arrange music, unfit for this or that? Really? Well sir/madam, you just flunked the first test in the Dale Carnegie School of how to win friends and influence people. No question that was a poor choice of words for someone who you (think) is s good guy but I’m sure you two will go out for beers and discuss your postings in the off season.
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6 hours ago, Dpsouthern81 said:
I thank you from the bottom of my heart Will.
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6 hours ago, xandandl said:
yes, for Will it seems like the Pitts. But does he still keep the TV gig?
Kinda tacky.
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5 hours ago, Cappybara said:
Interesting. Appears he didn't know he was being let go. Just after the season he cheekily posted to the haters that he's here to stay
Anyways, I wish he stayed on as an instructor or tech. I've heard good things about his impact on the overall environment at Phantom. With the right role he would've been great at phantom
Wow. Just wow. Especially coming from you who has called for Will’s head for the entire season.
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I’m thrilled and sad @ the same time. I don’t see Will’s name in the article. I truly want the best for him! I hope he remains in some capacity.
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I’ll leave this right here
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19 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
come on this is DCp where the anonymous spew #### then hide when wrong
How unfortunately true this statement is. Wasn’t DCP created to give posters an option to the toxic RAMD??? We as posters need to keep that in mind when hitting send on their posts.
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23 minutes ago, fatbrassboy said:
Tell that to the board!
Who says the board dosen’t Know that already???? No official announcements have been made
Staff merry-go-round
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Perhaps the word circus was a bit harsh. Let’s go for spectacle instead. I mean no disrespect to the basic tenets of drum corps. Hard work, discipline, working in a group environment are all key take always for students and instructors alike.
I’ll try this again.... if travel, insurances, food, vehicles, fuel, horns, drums, costumes/uniforms aren’t expensive enough,corps are piling on more debt by adding amplification, props, theme changes every year just to stay relevant.
I’m a proponent of bagging the puffery and placing music and marching performance back in the members’ control. More of a grassroots approach to drum corps. There still is plenty of creative opportunity with drill color and music to entertain the masses.
I’m speaking for myself as a fan, but I get the feeling I’m not alone here. If a regional model can put more groups(SoundSport) on the field. I’m all for it!