CBrogers

To all the that expert musicians that have marched and played in a hornline, thank you. Just as my ignorance concerning instruments is evident I am learning a lot from the debate you guys are having. When I listen to the 87 Vanguard compared to todays top hornlines I hear a fuller sound. I don't have a trained ear when it comes to hornlines. Funny I should have realized it. The advances in technology have allowed drumlines to produce a very different sound from the earlier years. I should have figured the hornlines would follow. I have to admit I do love and miss that full sound that was produced years ago.

I understand the need to reach for a different sound but the new bugles that hornlines are using, please bring the old back. I am not sure what you changed, but there is nothing more exciting to a drummer than when he is running across the field playing an incredible balls to the wall passage at the end of the show and he can feel the power of the hornline giving him goose bumps. Its as if there is this storm surge of energy and as drummers we bring the thunder which causes people to stand up. The combination of the two are the reason why great drummers really appreciate great hornlines. There have been some years in old school time when you had great hornlines but the percussion arranger did not permit great drumlines to be challenge. Such a waste in my opinion. So why are we wasting great talent in the honlines playing on these new types of instruments that in my opinion distorts power and surge of a great drum corp storm when in play. Horn line members please chime in. As drummers we can't say anything when you are out on the field because it's in appropriate. But we have ears and yes we do wonder.

I have to say I like the old and the new. The new are really playing some engaging patterns to the music of today. I have notice where we would have rest during the old school years they play 16 notes RR LL RR LL. I don't have a problem with that at all. As for the ending there is a bit of showmanship these young bucks are expected to display. I would give them a break on this. I think the lines and arrangers of today should be proud of what they are doing. It's not necesarily better than what we did, but its not worst. Personally I would give anything to be 20 years younger to play Phantom 2008 book or be part of Bluecoats snare line 2008. Man I Loved what those guys did. Give em credit, they fought for it.

Yes I agree we have monkeys on steroids. They will never go away. How did the movie line go. Oh yeah... King Kong ain't got nothin on ME!!!!!!

Wow, after looking at this thread and viewing the post. I agree with somethings but disagree with others. I don't like to call out any drum corp by name and truthfully I am not a die hard fan of anyone in particular. But I believe there is something to this thread when it comes to disatisfaction. Sure there was a lot of talk about scores but the underlying isssue is are drum corps going to keep moving shows to the abstract abyss where entertainment becomes less important or will they realize their mistake? Everyone has an ego including a show designer. I think a lot of people on here would like to pull those guys out of left field and bring them a little closer to reality. There were some corps that had good shows and others well not so entertaining of a show. Now when the scores didn't reflect this people felt disappointed and frustrated. What would be a great idea is to be able to present a large check as result from fan donations to the drum corp that was voted the corp with the best show. I am sure the judges might not like it but it would be an excellent way to say thank you to a Drum Corp for doing what you do. It could also have the affect of forcing some corps to really evolve the activity to a more exciting and appealing level of performance. Really it would do just that. We can have two champions the judges champion and the Fans champion. In the end it will always be about Fan Admiration. The scores will just have to catch up. Hey I did it without mentioning any corps with negative remarks. I knew I could get it done.

Best As I said, these are things we think but dare not say..... To the above comment in all seriousness, they would be pretty well liked? LOL... Got to love that one.

Don't care about Cadets, don't care about SCV, but as drummer you know either you lay it down or don't. You can't be in top 3 with a bad drum line performance. I don't know if they got ripped, or just choked on the field. But you should not be able to do that. COME ON MAN!!!!!!! LOL..... a tick is a tick. If ain't there it ain't no tick.

I for one am glad 2009 is over. I didn't really care for a number of shows this year. Face it excitement is not a category Judges reward. My favorite corp changes each year because the show changes every year. Corps are trying to win to much. Forget entertainment its the number of wins that count. Hey!!!!!! Don't act like it ain't true LOL..... TOP 10 THINGS WE ARE NOT SAYING ON HERE. BUT YA KNOW YOUR THINKIN IT. 1. I still don't see how a top 3 corp can remain in the top with a low drum score. The scoring is really messed up. LOL. I don't care who it is. That should not happen. 2. Drum lines need 2 judges. One in the box and one on the field. It keeps them from playing Sixteenth notes really clean and getting a perfect score. Some horn people might not get it, but drummers do. 3. What's up with the horn lines? Explain something to me why are they not coming off as powerful as they have in the past? Is it better quality sound you are getting or may be poor show design in 2009? I am not sure on that one. But I know I am not the only one who has thought it. 4. Is it better to be clean and boring or Dirty and exciting. What the heck is the GE score about anyway? hmmmm If you are running around the field making intricate shapes and designs and the crowd goes ooooooo, ahhhhhhhh you get a high score? Or is it you use all kinds of props add a little marching here a little there and you then become unique and therefore given a high GE score? 5. If drum corp as an activity is getting better, how come the crowds are getting smaller? 6. Do we need the designers of shows to explain the concept of a show to get it? .... Really folks, in that case is the concept really that good? 7. What's wrong with having the crowd stand up and cheer after announcing the Champion? When Phantom won in 2008 everybody went crazy. I haven't seen a response like that in over 15 years. Point here shouldn't fans walk away feeling better about the competition? 8. If they change the judging system to reward shows more fan friendly don't you think it might increase the appeal of this activity and generate more cash, green, oil, Texas tea. Now the first thing you know old Jed's a millionaire the kin folks said.....oppps my bad.... got carried away. 9. Is anybody sick of seeing the same top 5 corps being placed in the top 5 year after year, after year, after year, after year. No... there is nothing wrong with the system sir. Just because between 3 corps they have won over 30 championships does not mean I am in the wrong officer. 10. Because BD won both Classes in undefeated seasons, they are guaranteed to not be liked for the next 2 season. Bad thing here is they will probably come out with shows that should be considered some of the best of all time next year. But it won't win, because of fan bias and judges getting ripped for 2009 season. Let the discussion begin LOL!!!!!!!!!

I think the problem here is how do you criticize what judges award without throwing ill will towards the corp members. That is a hard to do. At the same time smiling and acting as if there is no problem does more harm. I am like many others. I don't understand what gets a drum crop rewarded. The entertainment value of some performances this year was not as full filling as in others. I found myself along with friends not excited about coming to shows. I usually try to make it to as many shows as possible, but this year I didn't find a reason to make the 2 - 3 hour drive with the family, pay over $35 per person in drinks, tickets, etc and then make the drive back. I know this sounds bad but I felt as this season DCI really snubbed their noses at old supporters like me. I shouldn't take it personal but it's as if their is a large group of fans that are begging DCI to bring us those shows that would make us stand up and cheer. Give us the drama and excitement of an extremely clean drumline and powerful hornline that blows your ears off. Make us have to talk and admire the performances with other fans after a show, thus leaving us craving for more. I thought last year with the show Phantom Regiment 2008 put on judges would reward more corps that brought that kind of excitement to the activity. Fans loved it. It provided the basic experiences we crave, 1. Drama, 2. Excellent Music 3. Great Visual Package In other words it was a show. What we got this year were performances. Their really is a difference. One you remember and are willing to pay top dollar to see, the other not so much. That is the best I could do without showing ill will towards members. DCI please reward drum corps that put on shows and others will attempt to do so. Fans will be happy and more people will come to shows. It's not rocket science.

Who has the most crowd pleasing / best show of 2009. Name your top 6. Only rule is if you don't have something nice to say about a drum corp keep it to yourself. Lets keep it civilized and positive. With that said I think it is pretty close. I have 1. Crown 2. SCV 3. CADETS 4. BLUECOATS 5. PHANTOM 6. BOSTON

Crown, is a contender end of discussion. I do wish the traditional top 5 alumni and fans would open their mind to the possibility the top 5 will one day hopefully be composed of 4 new corps that never appeared there in the last 20 years. Crown is a great drum corp. I never marched their but what I like about them is this, they know they are the new kids on the block. Just like any other year in order to score a 92.0 against a traditional top 5 you really have to perform at a 94.0. It's not fair, I don't like it and most others probably don't either but its the system that has been put in place. It was like that over 20 years ago. Its like that now. This year I believe they do have the best show in DCI. Although SCV, Cavies or the CADETS can take that award this year with the slightest miss step by Crown. But if Crown does what it does best which is perform the show at what they deem acceptable, which of course is very high on the expectation level, they absoultely deserve a shot a winning. The judge can say clean and technical points all they want, but the crowd will see othewise. Ask some old DCI alumni, ten years from now you won't remember who wins DCI. You only remember great performances and you look at those performances as the champions of that year. If your performance does not warrant the high score, you will be forgotten. I know it sounds some what crude but its true. So back to the discussion CROWN is ok. They will pull it together for DCI. If anything they are probably using all of the scores and issues they faced this summer to motivate themselves. If not win DCI they will be in the top 3. Others will have to move over.

Just as I am sure you either have a child performing or possibly were a past member just as I was, thanks on their behalf.

I don't know which other corps are also facing the same problem. That is the only information I have. I got the email today.

It turns out DCI could not find a place for the Bluecoats for finals week. I don't know how that could have happen but the email I recieved look like this. Attention Bluecoats Friends, Family, Parents, & Alumni! We need YOUR help to find a housing/rehearsal site for DCI Championships Week, August 4-8, 2009! The Bluecoats are one of a very few corps for which, despite their best efforts, DCI has been unable to secure housing for DCI Finals week. With finals less than 2 weeks away, we are reaching out to you, our biggest supporters, for help in securing a site. If you have a contact at a high school or other facility within 75 miles of downtown Indianapolis that might work for the Bluecoats, please contact David Glasgow as soon as possible . Thank you for your help with this urgent situation! I am not local to the DCI area but for those that are local could you please make a difference to the 2009 Bluecoats by checking to see if there is a place to stay and practice that is local to DCI? I am sure you can get David Glasgow contact information from Bluecoats Website at http://www.bluecoats.com Thanks in advance.

I can understand the frustration KFanti has. I feel the same way not just about the bluecoats but the activity in general. It bothers me that for the last 15 years we only had 2 new drum corps appear in the top 5. I think there is some thing wrong here. I am not going say any names but I believe if you took the bluecoats,crown and a few other performers put them in a different uniform they would get higher scores. Its called slotting. They had it when I was performing and they still have it now. I don't think the commentary has any affect on the judges. There is an enormous amount of pressure on judges if they let a traditional top 5 corp drop out of that group. Unfortunately kids see it and they want to win, so where do you think the top 5 recruit members from You guessed it, everyone else. They will always get great talent and also be rewarded regardless of the show. To have to think about a show to understand it means it was not a well put together show. Bluecoats are trying to do what the judges have been rewarding other drum corps for. You can't blame them. You want to win. This year the show they are putting on is more complex and performed better than some they will be placed in the top 5. The ironic thing if they don't make it this year is because the show was too over the top and complex. The year before it was not challenging enough. The year before that the theme was to simple, blah blah blah. When really it boils down to a group of men and women in green shirts having the courage to allow other drum crops to compete and really have a shot at winning. Some great names will lose while other new commers will win if this ever happens. But showing members if they put in the hard work they have a shot at the title regardless of what corp they come from will make All DRUM CORPS BETTER!!!!!!! We should not have the same top 5 for the past 15 years if there really is a competition occuring.... So does commentary matter NOPE!!!!!!!!!