noblegaijin

I am not in the employ of the Blue Knights. There is absolutely no difference in me popping over NFL.com and posting a message expressing my disagreements with Elway's handling of the Broncos (which, for the record I would never do...he's killin' it!). The logic you handed me was, "you shouldn't criticize unless you're willing ot start your own corps", which I think we both can agree is pretty flimsy. I can see that for many folks here--in all fairness MOST folks here---loyalty trumps all else. There are many proud parents, former members, and staffers who probably didn't want to read what I had to say. That's fine. But recognize that this is in fact a public forum and this is hardly the first opinion ever posted nor will it be the last. I do not pull punches or play favorites. I'm all about getting the difficult topics out on the table where everyone can see them and discuss them. I never mentioned a single name, launched a personal attack, or insulted anyone. I tried my hardest to keep the criticism impersonal. That said, I don't think the weight of the topic was as heavy as many have made it out to be. I simply wished to illustrate that I find BK shows to be fairly bland and dismissive of the audience. I hope that opinion changes in the years to come. I think the sentiment that I should reach out to the staff is also valid. I am giving that serious consideration as well. Thanks for the feedback.

Interesting points, Chuck. I haven't really given much thought to a correlation between world class and surrounding open class corps. I would assume that the need for open class corps simply bubbles forth from a surplus of applicants at their world class equivalents. As far as I know, they are essentially incubators for those who are on the cusp of making world class teams - correct me if I'm wrong.

Then, we essentiall agree. I think the organization (public outreach, commitment to fielding a corps year in and year out) is pretty solid through and through. But your opening sentence is precisely where I am coming from - they do not field interesting shows. That's it. No other agenda.

With this logic in place, I hope you never criticize the company you work for, your government, or your favorite team. Unless of course you wish to start your own.

Oh dear....some people just can't take criticism well. I'd say that some interesting dialog came out of these 11 pages, even if I don't personally agree with some of the points made. I really don't understand where the need was for personal attacks, Atucker. It's disappointing that you would attack my character even if you passionately disagree with my stance. Best of luck to you.

Bummer

Do you watch sports? Have a favorite football team? Ever find yourself frustrated by a boneheaded draft pick or roster change in the offseason or perhaps poor coaching? Ever vocally protested? Ever screamed at the tv after watching something like that go down? By protesting choices made by your favorite team are you less of a fan?

The difference of course being that I have absolutely no emotional investment in the Colts, Crossmen, Troopers, or Blue Stars. As for Vanguard, Bluuuuuuecoats, and Phantom - they've already tasted top tier. The Blue Knights have not. And to be clear, I never said that "complaining on a message board" would change anything. This was a commentary on my personal feelings regarding the Blue Knights.

Ha - not sure I am that memorable. I was fairly quiet until the tail end of the season when I started getting comfortable with everyone. Was painfully shy back then. I remember your name somehow - did you work with the Euphoniums? So, you're not going to Drums this year?

And I pay credence to all of the points you just made. It isn't easy. It does take substantial planning. I'm simply stating that the overall trajectory of the corps has been flat for many years now and I don't think it's a coincidence. Sitting back and admiring the problem's difficulty is not a solution.

Maybe so, Wes. Hopefully this year proves me wrong. Soprano Bugle - I was there. I have tons of pictures of me in front of the tour bus, on and off the field. We had a Japanese girl from Kyoto named Ryori that year as well. Why the investigative reporting?

1995 Madison Scouts - 4th 1996 Madison Scouts - 6th Correct - that was a mistake. I had the 96 Buccaneer show in mind when I made that comment. The 96 Crossmen really surprised as well (9th place).

Wes - this smacks of "we should just be grateful to be a part of the conversation." instead of "we have what it takes to be the best." You can paint all of the sad pictures you want, but when the results are the same year after year, maybe it's time to start having some difficult conversations.

See, but this assumes too many things. First, that BK has the right idea about "entertainment" to begin with. I think most folks who saw the Cartoon show or many others throughout the last 10 years would tell you that they weren't terribly entertained. This makes me recall a topic which Mark Arnold always talks about during the early camps of each season. He draws a simple line graph which illustrates the idea that, when you try something new it usually means that your skill level "gets worse before it gets better". So, we try on the entertainment shoe, get panned a bit, and then run back to what's familiar? Hell no. You drive forward and break that shoe in until it's a comfortable fit.

Here's what I can tell you - the Blue Knights have an undeniable trend which has them hovering around the mid to lower end of finals year after year. In any other business, anemic or negative growth is not viewed as a positive phenomenon. Of course I "assume" some of the things I mentioned above are not happening. Objectively, I can say that they certainly haven't fielded a show that makes me believe, and likely many would-be or returning Knights have felt the same.

You make it sound as if BK getting 9th place is some kind of new phenomenon. I'm not talking about snapping fingers here. This is now a decades old tradition. BK had the stage set in 2001 and blew it with poorly conceived ideas about what constitutes "entertaining". One could argue they had a similar chance coming off of Avian only to see them settle back into the quicksand. Because I don't volunteer to be a brass tech, I suppose I don't have a valid opinion, correct?

Yes - this is closer to the truth than the "we don't care about placement" sentiment I was getting from folks earlier. Whomever is recruiting needs to sell BK and demonstrate its earnestness in being number one. Seek out top talent, invest in meeting with that talent, and then convince them that BK is serious about being champions and explain its roadmap for getting there. I really can't imagine that it would cost a great deal more money than they are already spending. Perhaps time and planning are the mitigating factors. Everyone clamors "Retention. Retention. Retention." - retention is nothing more than a reflection on how your membership views your program. Put something amazing on the field, and you'll find that membership will be the least of your concerns. Ask Santa Clara, BD, or the Cavies if they have a retention problem. In any case, it would make one hell of a Rudy story to see them crack top 3 in the coming years.

Allegro - if a message like this ruffles a few feathers, so be it. I find BK's consistent output of sleep-indicuing, overly-cerebral shows to be condescending and offputing to the listener. It's not fair to say the Blue Knights are failing - as many have stated, they are perennial finalists and that counts for a lot. This is old news though - why not turn your sights on the next evolution of your program and go for the top tier? What's holding them back? What are the other corps doing that BK isn't? And why is it taking so long to have this conversation and come up with some solutions? When I marched in 2000, we were within a point or two of SCV throughout the entire season. Sometimes, we'd finish in time to cach a glimpse of their show and I remember thinking...."man, their show is so much more interesting and exciting than what we're putting out. What gives?" I keep holding out for that moment when I say to myself, "yes - that was an exciting show. I could see that show among the Cavaliers, Cadets, and Blue Devils of the world." More important than "taking on a difficult topic" or "making a statement" in some intellectual way should be the simple idea that a show should entertain. For one reason or another, this concept seems to elude the mainstays at BK.

No...that's not what I said at all. I said I "care less" about the corps breaking the top six than I do about them delivering a show that riles me from my seat. I care about both and it should be very telling to all BK fans that, year after year, they contiune getting roughly the same results.

I thought they were pretty good analogies. At any rate, did you have something to add to the discussion?

Did I ask something? I thought what I wrote was pretty much a statement.

I remember Mr. Sylvester - liked his enthusiasm and he did in fact do great things for BK. He lost some respect from me when I saw him sporting a Che Guevara shirt in one of the camp vidoes, though. Oh well - can't win 'em all. Honestly, I care less about the "top six" than I do about driving me from my seat with something special. '95 and '96 Scouts gave me goose bumps but weren't above six. Last year at Drums, I distinctly remember getting electrified by the Troopers' show. They were load and exciting. I am just absolutely, 100 percent bored with what they offer year after year. I agree that '12 was ever so close.

See...that sounds nice, but I don't buy it for an instant. These are the types of phrases usually uttered by those who know they don't have a chance to win. Placement matters. This is a competitve activity, so if beating the other corps doesn't matter, then what are we even doing out there? Not everyone wins. Not eveyone gets a gold star. Good thing olympic athletes don't have this kind of mind set. May competition drive your son and the 2014 Blue Knights to be the absolute best they can be.

Wes, here's is what I'm talking about - never a finals placing higher than sixth place.

I can see that I made the mistake of thinking that drum corps is a competitive activity. Or, wait...