tigger2
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Posts posted by tigger2
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The short version for me: They both are strong in every caption. Both do some amazing things, but while BD has many specific effect events, Blue Coats entire show IS the event unlike any ever produced in the activity- it is flawlessly seamless and delivers a through-time horizontal value that rivals those in any professional setting that our activity borrows from: ballet, musical theater, opera, Cirque, etc.
More specifically/and of course longer explanation :
Overall engagement: BLOO
Color use: BLOO
Number of specific effect moments: BD
Prop use: BD
Setting the stage: BLOO
Use of electronics: BLOO
Aesthetic: BLOO
Intellectual: BD
Emotional: BLOO
Battery: BD
Front Ensemble: BLOO
Guard: BD
Percussion writing: BLOO
Brass: BLOO
Brass soloists: BLOO
The all important "it" factor: BLOO
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4 minutes ago, Hook'emCavies said:
The Cavaliers pulling an upset for 3rd place
THIS!
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I like that these three words appear on the GE sheets as part of the design criteria. Every component of the production, designed and performed, falls under one, two, and at times all three categories. I think the best shows try to get an equal dose of all three placed within the production, with "Emotional" eventually carrying the most value in my opinion. That said, not every corps has the same approach, nor the same personality. One of these three might steer the ship more than another depending on the corps, the theme, etc.
In my trying to rationalize what is missing in SVC's show this season, I have come to several conclusions, including the lack of the Emotional.
So, how would you rate each of the top 7 in the these three components of design on a scale of 1–10. I included the top six of course, but BK as well because while I know some do not have an emotional response to the program, I do- demonstrating that humans make the scoring decisions and all humans perceive things differently. Adding the score of each of the three of course does not determine a ranking. How you manipulate these three things more determines that.
BLOO: Aesthetic=10, Intellectual=9, Emotional= 10
BD: Aesthetic=9, Intellectual=10, Emotional= 8
SCV: Aesthetic=7, Intellectual=9, Emotional= 6
CC: Aesthetic=8, Intellectual=8, Emotional= 7
BC: Aesthetic=8, Intellectual=8, Emotional= 8
CAVIES: Aesthetic=9, Intellectual=8, Emotional= 10
BK: Aesthetic=6, Intellectual=9, Emotional= 10
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8 hours ago, FlamMan said:
The grey pajamas are just awful.
This has been a head scratcher all season. So, I imagine I'm at the table with the really talented people at SCV designing the show in the winter. The costume designer (let's pretend his name is Ralph) is now up to reveal sketches of the proposed look for the winds and percussion. The covered drawing is placed on a large easel at the front of the room. The covering is lifted. I immediately say, "Ralph, wrong sketch. That's the one you're doing for the off Broadway low budget revival of Godspell." Ralph states, "No. This is what I am proposing. I know its different but I think it speaks well to the vibe we want create on the field this summer." Me or someone else in the room, "Our show is about counterculture. The emotions connected with such. I really appreciate your thinking outside of the box on this one, but I am not sure I am seeing our theme here. And besides, we all know from decades of collective experience, grey and light pink really do not work well outside on a green football field at any distance, much less from the press box."
Though the costume would have more impact inside and up close, maybe for indoor guard or winds, or even for "Godspell" or "Hair" or whatever, it still would be bland and unflattering.
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This list is what I think should happen. Not based just on "favorites" or historical warm fuzzies. Trying to think through the sheets and judging to a tenth, and where the activity is now, where it seems to be going, and what I would like for the future of the activity to be in order to gain more fans and more informed lauders. If close in my book, I always ask myself two things: 1) Who do I want to see again asap, and 2) who do I need to see again because I am intrigued and need another viewing.
1. Bluecoats: It is just so nearly flawlessly designed. Though championship BD has had some great shows this past decade, there are always loose ends, sometime a lot of them, and the re0use of devices has gone from being isms to being predictable. Bluecoats have two small things that will get cleared up. Make the new ending noticeably better and more exciting and I think this is a game changer. The music ensemble is so good most of the show that I think it is easy to sit back and forget how hard it is to craft and perfect. That high brass lick in the middle that goes on for the length of a Scorsase film is the most amazing "lick" brass feature ever in the activity, and they are spread 30 to 30 in small pods.
2. BD: This production is a great version of the many shows we have seen from them this past decade. Too many loose ends and it lack heart too frequently. They are great and I enjoy them a lot, but think Blue Coats the better package.
3. Cavies: I know this is a bit of stretch for many, but based on my two questions (mentioned above), this is where they belong. Total package. Most all captions even. No weakness.
4. SCV: Excellence as effect is their bailiwick. There are 20 other corps that give us that. Not to the same level nor frequency- but it isn't a unique production aspect that we can't experience with other corps. They can explain their show to me over and over and I can even totally buy the whole counter-culture thing, but where's the emotional value? The heart? The excitement based on well crafted pacing that leads to from scene to scene holding your breath? The drab costumes for the musicians is just one more aspect that lowers the shows appeal. Flowy Grey with pink accents? Really?
5. BOSTON: Such a great show! Would music rather see it over and over than SCV again. Too many "small" aspects that have then 5th for me including the Goliath on stilts thing.
6. CROWN: Best 6th place corps ever. For me, they suffer from the SCV woes a bit, though I would rather see them again than SCV. Excellence is excellent.
7. BK: This is also a game changer. Love every beat of every bar.
8. BLUE STARS: Love every beat of every bar. A unique voice in the activity. Too many "small" aspects have them just under BK for me.
9. MANDARINS: Congrats on your second year in. Great show. Less mature performers than those ranked above. Guard helps place them here.
10. PHANTOM: Besides being most improved in one season, I love this show.
11. CROSSMEN: Comparable to Mandarins, but still growing the talent level, and consistency in performance.
12: CADETS: Though percussion scores may keep them higher, the show is just really rough. I love the first stament and then I am done. Many shows ranked lower show MUCH better planning and creativity.
13. PACIFIC CREST: Maybe I am just a sucker for really well designed shows performed at a high level, but I think the judges are caught off guard by how well this production is designed and some unfortunately do not have the experience with amplification and electronics to take into account that those aspects of their show compare to the skill levels of the top 6. That said, they have much more going for them than just the electronic engineering and incredible musical balance throughout the music ensemble. For me, I think this is clearly 13th, and not close. I do not know how the on-fleld skills hold up to any detail, but from the stands, it looks and sounds top 12.
14. SOA: Great show. Better corps than last year's. Too many loose ends and a few bad transitions. Didn't plan out costume changes to the detail needed. Talent still young overall.
15. ACADEMY: Have improved a lot the past two weeks. May surpass SOA. Some inexperience is still evident in the design and performers.
16. COLTS: Great show. Best they have been in a while. It is just not getting better at the rate of those above them.
17. TROOPERS: A tidy show performed well. Some fundamental training and finessing of exposed moments will improve this product a lot the next few weeks.
18. SCOUTS: Deeper talent that Troopers, but I do not care to see the show again and there is not one phrase that is clean visually or musically (much more a brass issue than percussion). Some design segments are truly elementary level and poor performed. Why does the battery wear white hats?
19. MUSIC CITY: Good show. Unique. Fun. Great music. Solid production.
20. GENESIS: The bones for a great production that got a bit away from them in regards to details and making the prop restating flawless. Good corps.
21. SURF: Logical show that displays great fundamental training. Pacing issues. Expecting more in 2020.
22. CASCADES: Better music making than 2018. Interesting idea.
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Maybe I am just a sucker for really well designed shows performed at a high level, but I think the judges are caught off guard by how well this production is designed and some unfortunately do not have the experience with amplification and electronics to take into account that those aspects of their show compare to the skill levels of the top 6. That said, they have much more going for them than just the electronic engineering and incredible musical balance throughout the music ensemble. For me, I think this is clearly 13th, and not close. I do not know how the on-fleld skills hold up to any detail, but from the stands, it looks and sounds top 12.
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BD. I don't want to like you best but . . . Wowzaaaaaaa!!!
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Hmmm. Loved SCV for decades. Loved last year. This seems like a TEXAS UIL band show, all about excellence and showing off chops but no emotion. I just don't feel any attachment at all. And I have a hard time getting past the grey uniform that looks completely dis-attached from their show vibe and the tarp that looks exactly like a soiled hygiene product. Sorry. After winning with so many behind you this seems terribly misguided. You are great at doing your 2019 thing. I just don't care to see it more than once.
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So Good BLOOOOOO!!! Almost flawless in design without a second of anything that isn't crafted, musical, or convincing. If picking a winner for DCI is in part saying to all corps and the activity as a whole- "This won because this is where the activity needs to head, I'll vote 2019 Bluecoats." Now, BD is certainly crafty and never to be dismissed, but there are currently too many loose ends and phrases with no craft in too many areas.
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20 minutes ago, Poppycock said:
Consensus is Cavaliers should or eventually will best Crown. Cavaliers have the better design. Crown has no visual WOW moments. Too sterile and vanilla. So contrived!
And again, THIS!
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HOLY SMOKES CAVS! I have not really cared for them since Propaganda. This #$*@ is the REAL DEAL. Even without seeing SCV tonight, I would much rather see this show again. I also think it competitive for a higher spot.
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So those that placed the "brass lines don't do hard drill anymore while playing" phone call . . . Blue Stars answered, and then some. Loved it!
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Blue Knight, I FREAKIN LOVE IT!!! Surprised how dirty the brass drill is. Give dat vis team some field time.
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Really pulling for Cadets. The introduction was great. Then is just goes off the rails design and quality. Horn line seemed to really struggle from the top of the ballad to the end.
Is the ballad in a weird key/a key it shouldn't be in? I just don't like the arrangement. Played perfectly it seems it would just leave you flat. Hoping all the best for them.
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7 hours ago, Chief Guns said:
Blue Devils: 7 Golds and 5 Silvers in the last 12 years. Keep doing what you are doing. You are giving us dominance we may never see again in our lifetime. Don't listen to the outside noise that really doesn't matter. With the success you have achieved, some will not like what you do regardless of what you put on the football field. You could come out and march a entire show at 230bpm with break neck drill ending in a massive company front with the horn line achieving volumes that push the stands off their foundation. Guess what........some will still find something to complain about. So who cares what they think. If they don't like your props, or staging etc, they know how to logoff flomarching and not watch your show. Stay the course, stay true to yourselves, and Do it up Devils.
I disagree with this sentiment. How well did not listening to outside advice work for the Cadets after a decade or more of dominance? Cavaliers? While a BD fan, I too grow tired of the rock back and forth go-to-body we have seen for five or six years, the numerous scatter transitions that are under produced, the over balance of the intellectual versus the emotional, re-using musical devices that are too similar to past year's, needing a detailed pamphlet to get the show arc. If you are a defensive BD fan, you won't agree that any of these things are negative but perhaps "signature" Devil-isms. While one could make that argument, such doesn't change the fact that others of us want to see the corps evolve more than it has.
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23 minutes ago, Amazed&Stunned said:
What is most notable on that recap is Nola Jones on effect.
She is a player and she has Cavaliers at 83.5% and the Blue Stars at 82%. WOW. And I mean that WOW for the Blue Stars. What the heck are people not seeing in the Cavaliers. I will have to take a look Saturday for myself. I admit, I did like them out of the gate.
BUT, look at the last two days on GE. Waymire had Blue Stars 2 tenths behind SCV in rep two days ago. So, Jones having them 1.5 from Cavies seems to tell a story of perhaps Blue Star's greatness but not necessarily SCV nor Cavies lack of it.
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15 hours ago, westcoastblue said:
It seems to me the show is trying too hard to be super intellectual and avant guard. There is not one moment of laid back intrigue or respite. Last year's show had six or so immediately identifiable moments. This year there are maybe one or two. In Ankeny, Waymire had them only two tenths above Blue Stars in rep.
I agree. They are loud and really clean for early July. The percussion, brass, and guard books are difficult and they are achieving them well. But there is nothing to hook me and the theme is not evident anywhere. So, for now it is a great drum corps without communicating much beyond excellence. All that said, excellence at the highest levels and with a complicated show. Complicated shows can make me in awe, but cannot make me feel. AND, Blue Stars have perhaps their most unique yet approachable show of their modern era. It has all three major components of GE to an extreme: aesthetic, intellectual, emotional. And the show is tough in ways SCV's is not and they are giving it hell.
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4 minutes ago, westcoastblue said:
Well, much to say about both quoted reactions, but I will try to keep it brief. Your assumption that I am a Baby Boomer is incorrect, unthoughtful, ill-timed, and deprecating of your intended assertion(s). I spend my career immersed with students aged 14–24. My interactions and outcomes in these regards are quite successful and internationally known. You misread that I was anti-Scouts; snap emotions and hate are strong deterrents to logic, calm, and open-mindedness. I love the Scouts and want to see them win DCI again, soon. The current members will be bombarded with questions all summer long regarding their reactions to the corps going co-ed. These questions will come from supporters, haters, family, friends, those informed as to the organization's history, those familiar with the inner workings of drum corps, those not familiar, etc. Speeches/talks have been given, and will be given to members at the start of show days and rehearsal days regarding the corps' future and the role the current members will play in this monumental turn of events (Some could see this as time waisted, delaying the corps from much needed changes and cleaning of the 2019 production). Over the course of the summer members will look at DCP and other social-based platforms, reading offerings that will stir their emotions, thought processes, and stances. The fact that this season could now be seen as a "place holder" or "transitional season" could diminish the value of every drop of sweat, strained muscle, and head and heart effort that each member of the 2019 Madison Scouts invests in this year's production. I do not think we can simply state that the 2019 members will not react negatively in any way to the "going co-ed" news. Yes, this generation is extremely resilient in many ways. Yes, they are much more inclusive and diverse in their views of humanity than previous generations. Yes, they are strong and open-minded unlike any generation before them. But, to assume they are not feeling, emotionally-driven, seeking-truth, needing perspective and at times feeling underneath strained-scrutiny and maturity as to what is right for the organization, right now and in the future, right for them in 2019, is shallow and greatly examples unawareness and insensitivity.
While I have found your posts at time to be a bit brash and biased, all I can say here is BRAVO! Extremely well-stated and spot-on. At the end of the day, logic, fact, and clarity of reason has no replacement.
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11 minutes ago, phan771 said:
I did not get to the stadium in time to see the first two groups. Sorry, Colt Cadets and River City Rhythm.
Madison Scouts: The uniforms look sharp but don't elevate the theme or vibe of the show. And like when PR came out in all white or all black, a singular color head to toe really exposes dirt, and Scouts unfortunately have a lot of that. There were a couple of times that the Madison machismo seemed to appear, but the show was pretty shaky for the most part and seemed really long. I do not get a theme, not that such is everything, but it might would have helped the corps do a better job of selling the production a just that, a production. Percussion seemed quite strong.
Colts: They really came out swinging. The theme is super clear and easy to follow. The best they have been in a while. Some transitions to work out and cleaning to do of course. I particularly liked the pacing and commitment to performance. Good job, Colts!
Phantom Regiment: I wasn't able to make it to SoS so I was eager to see the old team. They were really really really good and I am glad to see and hear that the rumors of their disaster of a show is anything but. Some really smart choices and great staging and pacing kept me plugged in the entire time. Clean this up and I cannot see it not making finals. The beginning needs to grab us better as does the end.Crossmen: They reminded me of PR in a way. Aggressive and trying to prove a point. I have not cared for them at all for a long long time. I enjoyed tonight a lot. The narrative is not so detailed that you get caught up in it. It is pretty clear. All sections seem fairly matched in talent and performance capabilities. It seems the ending works well. So is it a matter of changing, cleaning, or a combination of both?
Blue Stars: A whole notch up in performance and design from the previous groups. There is so much detail and nuance that one viewing is certainly not enough. They sound AMAZING and look about three weeks from being visually in control of this visual monster of a show. Just wow! Musical and exciting. This day and age they may end up in the same spot as last year, but with a better corps. Eager to see and hear it again and again.
As always, I will stick around tomorrow for a Fourth of July that only Cedarburg can provide.
Thanks so much for your review. It is a shame these smaller shows get less coverage. Much appreciated.
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I like it better than Beast by a lot. That said, visually and emotionally a lot of question marks. Seems the overall visual structure Is there, just a lot to develop at this point. Excited to hear Klesch arranging (usually not at strength), going beyond transcribing, which is something he does well. Percussion was the most impressive aspect by far.
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I am apparently not reacting like many of you. This seems really rough me. An extremely unfinished product in all regards that comes across as needing at least a month before ever competing. Guard seems really behind to me. The brass writing is really predictable and using identical scoring in someways that immediately takes segments back to previous shows.
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2 hours ago, DCI-DadJokes said:
So a Beatles show then?
Well, if basing your guess off of mentioning music of the 1960s, could be: Elvis, The Doors, Temptations (topical), Stones, Simon and Garfunkel, Beach Boys, Creedence CW, etc.
Just saying.
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So, regarding the source music possibly not being "fresh"- If you would just play along for a second: Hum "Ode to Joy", or sing it in your head if you deem such more appropriate according to you current surroundings. That tune is nearly 200 years old and known world wide in most every country, every culture, every house hold. One could say the same about the alleged source material for Coats. That music is only 60 or so years sold. If by not "fresh" one means it has been done before in the marching arts, well yes, but in the last few decades it is mostly played by college bands or HS bands that are largely non-competitive. For over a decade I have wanted a corps the caliber of Blooooo to bring this great music to the field. While the tunes may be 60ish years old, I assume it will be made "fresh" in a way only Bluecoats can. Can't wait to hear it.
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7 hours ago, Cappybara said:
1. that fire of eternal glory arrangement is awful, Mr. Pitts
2. Mr. Pitts needs to teach the corps the concept of Dynamics. It's been a while since a PR corps has properly demonstrated dynamic range.
3. This is a finals level show but not sure I can say anything much beyond that unfortunately. My fingers are crossed this show blooms into something good
Why do you not like the arrangement? Did you hear it without percussion? electronics? Perhaps that would alter your perception? I am not sure Will is singularly responsible for the dynamics displayed by the music ensemble. Perhaps they are in the "build your chops, put air through the horn" stage of developing the brass. Is it too easy to be bluntly critical these days, as such seems to be more prevalent now than ever here on DCP and social media in general?
If between Bluecoats and BD, what influences your pick?
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by tigger2
SORRY about the original title! Arghh. I know better. Typing too fast and didn't catch it. Changed.