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Posts posted by GUARDLING

  1. 10 minutes ago, C.Holland said:

    DCI doesnt provide housing every night of tour. That's why the cost for housing is so great.  Do go back and look through the operations book as to what the collective of executive directors is actually on the hook for, and what they are not. 

    I totally get it. Been through it enough times. All I did was express what I experienced and saw for myself. The mice and roaches didn't express who supplied their guests or read an operations book.....lol...kidding😉

  2. 8 hours ago, dcifanforlife said:

    DCI has three full time housing coordinators that I believe inspect every housing site yearly.  Making reference to events that took place forty plus years ago or even ten years ago is not relevant in 2023. 

    Was just adding to what the poster had mentioned and even IF inspectors work, a comparison could show improvement, or not. Also roaches tend to hide when being inspected.


    • Haha 1
  3. 41 minutes ago, 84BDsop said:

    Y'know the most shocking thing about all this?


    SCV didn't take the "traditional" path to ceasing operations like so many others have -- gradually falling down the rankings until they fell out of finals and the closing the doors (27th, Bridgemen Suncoast, Freelancers, Sky Ryders, Magic,VK, etc)

    They were in the top 5 since 2012, including a championship, then boom, gone.  

    SCVC?   How many orgs folded a unit the year after that unit WON??

    Talk about a house of cards collapsing.

    As much as I do not want to see SCV go away, and I don't, I think they need to be commended for NOT doing like many others have. How many corps have we seen not finish a season. not have money or resources to feed their corps on tour, beg other corps for help and one can go on and on. Hoping they make a comeback.at some point.

    • Like 3
  4. 16 minutes ago, MikeD said:

    In addition, many bands do some amount of summer rehearsals to prepare for fall marching band, including full band camp to learn the show, at least in my experience.

    Many for 2 straight weeks, others may actually go away a week, and that's beside auditions ( for some ) I've taught bands that leading up to band camp in Aug. had 1 night per week sectionals all summer.

    • Like 1
  5. 49 minutes ago, TOC said:

    Memo to tour managers.  Make sure to remind your school contacts, you'd like the inside facilities being used to be sprayed or bug traps put out several days before the corps arrival.

    Agree, I remember back in 2011 and 12 at some school, you heard the roaches running around when the lights went out, that's how many there were and that was where the staff was in a band room. Another, I watched mice running across the floor doing a swan dive off another staff person sleeping, DISGUSTING! Now with that said expect much higher prices the more being asked for, although they shouldn't be able to rent with those conditions which I am sure is common in certain areas of the country, especially when school is not in session.

  6. 2 hours ago, 2muchcoffeeman said:

    Ha, yes. I wasn't even thinking about that part. I was a chaperone on my share of HS band trips to BOA, and while the hotel stays were a treat for the kids, there were squads of parents patrolling the halls through the night, and even then, there was always one story the next morning about an attempted rogue operation in one room or another. Those are situations where everyone in a room is a minor, and parents have absolute authority to enforce behavior. Now consider the same scene with a mix of minors and adults disappearing behind locked doors.

    It's inconceivable that anything could go wrong.


  7. 1 hour ago, Ashontheinternet said:

    quite the opposite. i bought the audition packet for Bloo the day it was available, worked on it for a long time, but ultimately j had to kind of forfeit the Bloo audition, because of the travel costs. virtual auditions would have been fine, but i cannot afford to travel cross country for callbacks and such, never mind full tuition. Btal last year was much cheaper than it is this year, so naively i expected it to be similar tuition cost this year. boy was i wrong. we are looking into options to potentially bargain with Btal, looking into scholarship options and such, however this extends beyond me. i have several friends who had to cut short their own drum corps experience because of costs. i may be able to get a lowered tuition if they see the potential in me as a performer, but they cant do that for everyone in my shoes. it is very unfortunate.

    Best of luck to you. Better to know the harsh reality in any situation. I've done many auditions and talked to literally hundreds of people and sometimes lead with the realities. IMO it's best to know up front than lead people on or make promises that can't be kept. 

    • Like 2
  8. 4 minutes ago, MikeN said:

    While the relative cost for services may make DCI a value, doesn't matter if you can't afford the absolute cost.  


    That is so true and then like we all do , choices have to be made. Doing any part of the activity today is certainly something not to be taken lightly. The other side of this also is, many programs, winter and summer have gone under because when some need recruitment they take anyone promising to pay , then don't. Another reality which programs learned the hard way.

  9. 12 hours ago, Ashontheinternet said:

    Look, it's a loaded title, but this is a genuine question. 

    This is the second year in a row that i have been forced to quit my DCI journey because of one simple thing: it is completely unaffordable for most common people. last year I auditioned for The Battalion, had to quit after the first audition camp after hearing tuition prices. this year it was even worse. I attempted a Bloo audition, forced to quit because of travel cost. Tried with Btal again, come to find tuition is around 4 grand. Forced to quit. 

    So this is my genuine question; How on earth does this activity expect to continue existing when year after year it becomes increasingly unaffordable for willing marchers. These costs are unsustainable and this is not a new issue, it has been around for years. 

    The activity for sure has become difficult for an average person to shell out so much BUT where can one get instruction for several months, housing, transportation, food etc for the price. You can't. Now I know it doesn't make it easier to know that and that some activities can be as bad if not worse. The best I can say is work, find creative ways to get sponsors, work, save in advance, work, plan ahead, work, look for corps with a scholarship program, did I mention work? If you auditioned for Battalion then went over to Bloo, did you think it would be less? No. Every year the cost of running a drum corps or even a winter program just gets higher and higher unfortunately. That is the reality of the activity today. The good or bad of that.  Good Luck to you

    • Like 3
  10. 19 minutes ago, Boss Anova said:

    It is DCI itself that is attempting to regroup and rebrand itself due to the loss of long time sponsors ,  school facilities , and access to youth groups , etc and the like due to having highly dubious and “ controversial “ people of low character involved in DCI Drum Corps . We are not in a position to sit in any high and mighty position of looking at donors , when the bigger  issue is cleaning up our own house from the mess created by others we had running things for decades . 

    it was a question...thats all.

  11. 1 minute ago, scheherazadesghost said:

    Who has their undies in a bunch? Gross. Y'all are the ones that keep bringing up specifics. Also, times are different now, and in many ways: thank goodness.

    What about any corps and their potential or past fast food funders? Forget CFA for a moment please for a thought experiment. Would anyone recommend eating fast food to support the rigor of a drum corps summer? Probs not. But it's it potentially good money that may be sorely needed? Probably.

    For the umpteenth time it's not about canceling or turning away funders outright, especially when finances are tight. It's about mitigating risk over time and slowly phasing out funders that are less aligned.

    Ahhhh  WEll a question can also be IF a sponsor knew of the diversity within an organization would " THEY" donate. I have seen that in several states, especially lately.

    • Like 1
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  12. 10 minutes ago, fsthnds said:

    What about the Winter Guards and Indoor Percussion who may be getting a free or reduced cost practice site? Are they to refuse that if it is from someone (ex. catholic church) does not agree with ALL their members lifestyles?

    Guards pay a fortune. I have paid a fortune, especially when you think about money coming in. That's " IF " members pay as they should" Over the years winter programs have had the same issues some drum corps have had.

    Anyone getting free today, even reduced I bow down to you...lol BUT I do see the point you are making.

  13. 33 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

    and being a different day and age, are people willing to open up their homes for strangers?

     Very True and not just that. In WC KIds so to speak aren't kids , They aren't 12 to 15 year olds. Back in the day we lived very different lives from the young people today with alot less available to us but even then being housed was ok for a day or two but that's it. Members today are also interested in the entire experience .

    As Lab Master said, if it was so easy to get local members it would have been done long before now. Competitive marching band did take the place of alot with a very different experience than it was years ago.

    Then of course then there is availability of rehearsal facilities, Not so easy and not so cheap. Gone are those days

    I know people are just looking for any way $$$ can be saved and that's not a bad thing but we have to realize that trying to resurrect a formula that actually didn't even work BITD as the world changed won't work today. So, what's the answer? that would be the multimillion dollar question. I do know creativity, a willing to either change the way we do some things, re- think the way we may be programmed to think, explore what has worked for some and ditch what hasn't and the biggest thing is a commitment. There have been many people with such great intentions, a big heart, a desire to give to membership but it takes way more today . JMO

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  14. 2 hours ago, Boss Anova said:

      huh ? It happens ALL the time though. Every year. All the way back to the pre DCI years too.

     in his memoirs, Don Warren, Founder and Corps Director, writes  in his book " Building The Green Machine " of his recruiting staff for his Cavaliers at the VFW Prelims in the 60's. He also writes about approaching a baritone soloist and Father in the Miami Vanguard during1960 season to come march the Cavaliers and be their soloist... which he accepted. Nothing unusual about this either. Lots of Corps do this.... both then and now.

    Bill Cook ( and others ) were talking to staffers of Corps to come to his start up Star of Indiana in the 1983 DCI summer season. 

     I can easily think of dozens of examples of staffers and marchers being approached by other Corps staff and/ or Mgt. during the season to come march their corps.  All... the.... time. Every season.

     In the " real world ", the business world, recruiters would contact me and others all the time... sometimes right at my desk's co phone ( lol )... recruiting me and others to leave my employer and go to work for them instead. Is it " shady " ? I dont know. Its nice to be wanted and valued,  I know that.

    Great then people shouldn't be clutching their pearls over Cadets. Right?



    • Like 3
  15. 19 hours ago, 2000Cadet said:

    Please. YOU should know better than anyone that would not have made any difference whatsoever, ESPECIALLY on this forum. I think one of the things people seem to have lost is the possibility that had they NOT reached out to SCV as early as possible, then spots would have possibly been filled. Then they wouldn't have ANY opportunity to march Cadets. 

    The activity is small. If it weren't cadets reaching out it would have been someone else for sure. How about some in the top who in the past reached out to staff as well as staff to members.DURING THE SEASON...hmmmm

    Talk about shady

    • Like 3
  16. 11 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:

    Totes, and thank you. I guess this just calls for differentiation...

    If you're teaching to the show, wouldn't that make you an entertainment company/industry? Wouldn't it make more sense to free yourselves from the trappings of "education" and nonprofits and just teach to the show? Education/pedagogy can be a secondary benefit, no problem. The show must go on mentality.

    If you're teaching to the members, you must be willing to sacrifice the product for the educational process. (Ideally you don't have to sacrifice either because both are in synergy.) But when push comes to shove, the importance of the lesson and process overshadows the product when your mission is based in education.

    Colorguards, winterguards and drum corps have never really settled which they want to be. Guess I've always naively hoped and assumed they were the latter.

    Thanks for restoring some of my faith, as always.

    well thank you. I'm not sure I've actually done anything other than my perspective which of course could and like anything challenged in the past. At least for me, wanting a great product, achieving high, being the best doesn't have to be exclusive. Now I am not saying there aren't others who do and feel just like you said. I am also not saying that there haven't been students time to time that moved on from me because they wanted that quick satisfaction without the possible weight of pulling someone maybe with a little less talent up to success. For me, at times, looked at the so-called talent God's who I just pushed out of a final's and watched the members no one would want, with a medal on their neck, while the others who smugly dismissed them has given be great satisfaction. 

    AS far as the product, as I said I don't think (others might debate) it has to be exclusive one way or another. A good teacher or designer lets their students shine, which makes their product shine. At least for me THAT"S when product as well as student looks, feels, and projects and even commands success.   JMO

    I do get when you say, just be an entertainment co. I know there were some in the past who wanted exactly that. While we are still competitive activity, teaching and learning is important and that goes for staff also. The staff person who can't learn from others anymore is of no use to any staff IMO

    SCV 2023 announcement may have nothing to do with this but with your experience there maybe it does.

    • Like 1
  17. 10 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:

    The educational experience provided to colorguard members is rarely the same caliber as what's provided to drummers, pit and horn players. It can't be due to the insular nature of the colorguard/winterguard world. There are very few places a top-notch colorguard performer can take those skills and make a living. Without serious career succession planning and guidance, colorguard can be a dead end, total-frills experience with little substance that can actually feed a person's career. Has the colorguard world gotten any better at soft skills, for example?

    Most colorguard folks only learn shows, and we very rarely get the luxury of multiple pre-season camps to cover anything but what's needed for the show. Too busy doing what? Learning another show for winterguard. I didn't learn anything from corps that bettered me, colorguard-wise. In fact, their teaching left me with serious adverse effects to my life. Diamante is a horrific parallel that shouldn't be ignored. I wasn't taught how to spin sabre. I was told doing so would be better for the show... so I learned it on my own and struggled through a season without actually being taught how to improve. I don't get the sense that the colorguard world has evolved past this broad approach.

    The educational benefits of being with the corps were different, and numerous for me. But they weren't related to anything colorguard directly that I could take with me when I was done. So the teach to the show vs teach to the kids dichotomy gets complex for non-musician members of corps. Teach to the show... but to the benefit, ultimately, of whom? Or teach to the kids... perhaps overall achievement is lower, but the skills learned within the collaborative process can be used across industries. What's more important for a youth educational experience to provide? Competition be ######. I still think this is a false dichotomy if you have the right educators in place.

    I welcome @GUARDLING or others to put me in check if I'm out of touch.

    Well, there's a lot to unpack there. I think some is accurate and I think some of what you say is based possibly on your experience (which can be valid) only you can answer that. 

    A lot of what you say is also based on which class (at least in WGI) you speak of. The higher the class the more it is about teaching the show, as it should be. If a student in WC needs to be taught, then Maybe they don't belong in WC. If a staff person presents something that a student does not come in doing (as I think you said) the is the staff's responsibility to TEACH that person, not hang them out on a limb alone. This is at least my way of approaching a student. 

    AS far as a teaching career. There have been many who have made a good living if they have the talent to diversify throughout the activity. You're right, a music major (drum or brass people certainly have more opportunities available to them than guard people but at least for me I have and do have many students throughout DCI and WGI teaching, successful and making some pretty good money. Career? maybe, maybe not time will show that. The odds? probably slim. I have found over the years the ones who last in the activity have been the ones who watch and listen and NEVER think they know it all and continue to grow. One needs to be open year after year and willing to have an open mind. I also have found those who do the opposite fade away or classically say I have had enough and left the activity. Now that may be valid BUT I will also tell you in many cases I have seen over the past decades some weren't done with the activity; the activity was done with them. Now of course there are also some who the activity should have been done with them..lol

    Now what's important IMO to or for a student, only one could decide for themselves, what's important to them, what philosophy, what mission statement, what's important to a given group, and much more. One needs to do their own homework and decide what's best for them. Groups can be different from each other just like the potential members themselves.

    All Just my opinion and personal experience

    Someone's personal experience, good or bad can certainly affect all what I just said...one way or another

    • Like 1
  18. 19 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:

    Competition dance is the epitome of non inclusivity and has serious safeguarding problems too. I have never run in those circles but have plenty of colleagues who do. I learned dance in an undergrad program you don't have to audition for, that still boasts one of the most diverse student groups in the country, and has a PhD track. (I was in band at the age when most kids do competitive dance because when I auditioned for dance programs, I never made the cut. Same for many of my colleagues.)

    There are citizen-artist-educators in the non-competitive, non profit dance world who do our best to obliterate barriers to access. That's because we know that diversity of body and thought simply make the art making better. We work from the assumption that arts, including dance education, are a public good that extends the life of the American legacy that is modern dance. It's also a big part of why most of us aren't compensated appropriately and often end up burning out. But people in my circles also go on to write arts policy, influence the forefront of choreography, and teach dance pedagogy in universities.

    You don't need expensive sequins to learn dance. You also don't need to have a body that meets western beauty standards. While you may not join the ABT after working with folks like me, you'll hopefully have developed a life long appreciation for the form that then grows into bodily awareness and future ticket sales for dance performances. All for much cheaper than competitive dance and significantly less of the body dysmorphia, shaming, bullying, etc.

    But a similar, crucial problems exist in drum corps and non profit dance: limited cash flow, siloing, and scarcity mindsets.

    I get it when looking for the best of the best or an image for a specific part etc etc and  have been around long enough to know  that we can all do anything we choose but that doesn't  mean we are all cut out for everything we may want in our heads but with that said, me personally, I am proud of the fact I was able ( with the help of others ) to take a lot of potential members who others didn't want and made them into DCI top 5 members, WGI finalists as well as multiple medalists. There's my satisfaction 😁

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  19. 1 hour ago, craiga said:

    I don't know.....while top corps no longer have to teach members how to play a concert b-flat, hold a rifle at port, or play a paradiddle correctly, I say there is still ALOT of teaching going on.  I remember watching a BAC weapons sectional last June where they spent hours on finger positions on their "sixes".  

    And, on top of whatever new playing skills they are learning, as we all know there are some serious life lessons being learned all summer, not the least of which are teamwork and delayed gratification. 

    Do today's members "need" drum corps? Probably not.  Is it nevertheless an amazing educational experience for them?  Absolutely. 

    Yes, there is teaching, even at a higher level BUT it's teaching the way their staff member wants things done. Which isn't a bad thing for a top level. 

    Actual teaching (from scratch) happens much more at the OC level.

    • Like 1
  20. 1 minute ago, Mello Dude said:

    I have no idea how people do it today.  I love drum corps, but you can't convince me these kids/young adults (that can readily afford it) actually need drum corps.  The amount of working, begging and scholarship when I marched was a lot.  BTW we worked up until tour even during spring camps.  The kids today get instruction but seriously do you really think at some of these levels they are getting REAL instruction on playing?  Or even need it?  The kids/young adults that would benefit most aren't even on the table anymore.  Massaging talent isn't really teaching, taking someone from one level of playing to unheard levels is.

    You make some real good points and not wrong at all. I often wonder how they do it also (some don't but that's another topic) In some cases you are also right about instruction. In many cases its instruction on the program but on WC level you're not teaching actually how to do but how to do what staff wants.

    Do these kids today need drum corps? IMO the answer is NO!

    these young people today have way more at their fingertips then we ever had BITD. That also becomes part of the problem, constantly trying to entice people into the activity.

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