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acolli17

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    How Much 12th Place Changes From Semi's to Finals

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    Just now, IllianaLancerContra said:

    In Yea Olden Days, dropped equipment was a 0.1 penalty, recorded in a special place on field judges sheet.  The reasoning was that any field judge could then return the equipment, and mark the error.  As brass & percussion didn't have a place for what was a M&M error, it was recorded a penalty.   But at its core there error was a tick.

    Other penalties were assessed for going over-time (or under-time), boundary violations, and being late for your performance.

    Also, the penalties are already worked into the final score.

    I can’t decide if I love or hate that. 

    How Much 12th Place Changes From Semi's to Finals

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    Hi Everyone,

    I was bored and couldn't sleep this morning, so I decided to do some research on the 12th place corps, and how their scores change between semifinals and finals. Here's the statistics for every corps that placed 12th place on finals night (there are a couple of exceptions, where a corps jumped into 11th on finals, in which case I used the 11th place semi's corps for the 12th place finals placement)

    Year Corps Semis Finals Difference
    '22 Troopers 87.425 86.425 -1
    '19 Phantom Regiment 87.775 87.2375 -0.5375
    '18 Crossmen 87.25 86.75 -0.5
    '17 Madison Scouts 86.475 85.25 -1.225
    '16 Boston Crusaders 85.525 84.8 -0.725
    '15 Crossmen 83.875 85.025 1.15
    '14 Crossmen 85.45 86.225 0.775
    '13 Blue Stars 86.2 85.45 -0.75
    '12 Crossmen 84.8 84 -0.8
    '11 Spirit of Atlanta 86.55 85.35 -1.2
    '10 Glassmen 86.5 85.8 -0.7
    '09 Troopers 85.9 85.1 -0.8
    '08 Madison Scouts 86.375 85.225 -1.15
    '07 Spirit 85.5 84.5 -1
    '06 Spirit 85.275 84.825 -0.45
    '05 Spirit 85.75 86.075 0.325
    '04 Glassmen 86.375 85.95 -0.425
    '03 Spirit 85.5 84.4 -1.1
    '02 Seattle Cascades 85.95 84.05 -1.9
    '01 Colts 85.95 84.9 -1.05
    '00 Bluecoats 85.15 84.4 -0.75
    '99 Colts 85.2 86 0.8
    '98 Colts (11th in Semis) 87.3 85.3 -2
    '97 Carolina Crown 85.9 85 -0.9
    '96 Blue Knights 84.6 80.7 -3.9
    '95 Magic of Orlando 81.9 82.4 0.5
    '94 Colts 83 80.1 -2.9
    '93 Colts 84.2 81.6 -2.6
    '92 Freelancers 84 83.1 -0.9
    '91 Sky Riders 85.1 82.9 -2.2
    '90 Dutch Boy 86.3 82.2 -4.1
    '89 Crossmen 85.8 84 -1.8
    '88 Sky Riders 86.6 85.1 -1.5
    '87 Sky Riders 85.3 81.9 -3.4
    '86 Velvet Knights 86.4 82.6 -3.8
    '85 Freelancers 85.9 83.2 -2.7
    '84 Velvet Knights 85.9 83.2 -2.7
    '83 Sky Riders 78.7 73.75 -4.95
    '82 Spirit of Atlanta 85.05 81.65 -3.4
    '81 Troopers 81 78.1 -2.9
    '80 Guardsmen 79.55 73.2 -6.35
    '79 Troopers 81.9 77.9 -4
    '78 Kilties 79.95 77.25 -2.7
    '77 Garfield Cadets(13th) 84.45 78.15 -6.3
    '76 Guardsmen 83.75 74.25 -9.5
    '75 Troopers 79.6 76.2 -3.4
    '74 Blue Stars 79.4 75.7 -3.7
    '73 Stockton Commodores 77.4 72.25 -5.15
    '72 Bleu Raeders 78.85 73.95 -4.9

     

    Some notable statistics:

    - The largest single drop from semi's to finals was the '76 Guardsmen, losing 9.5 points.

    - The average score drop from 2000 to 2022 was 0.6577 points. From 1983 to 1999, the average drop was 2.97 points. And from 1972 to 1982, the average drop was 4.75 points.

    - Only four corps have ever improved on their semi's score in finals: '95 Magic of Orlando (+0.5), '99 Colts (+0.8), '05 Spirit (+0.325), and '14 Crossmen (+0.775).

    - The corps that likes to eek their way into finals the most is Spirit/Spirit of Atlanta, placing 12th six separate times. Colts, Crossmen, and Troopers all came in 12th place five times each.

    - Of the 22 separate corps that have placed in 12th, fully half of them (11) are no longer competing as of 2022 (This will change if/when Spirit comes back).

    - Five separate corps (Bluecoats, Carolina Crown, Cadets, Madison Scouts, and Phantom Regiment) have all placed in 12th at some point but also received gold medals in other years.

     

    Have fun with the info.

    • Like 1
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    No scores, and I kinda like it...

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    55 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

    I gave up trying to figure out scores when judging execution went away. At least this non-music major could spot errors. Always enjoyed the smaller lower placing corps anyway as sometimes they had to get creative to deal with less people

    That's another thing that I like about this year. I'm a decently adequate orchestral/chamber percussionist, but the level of execution that these kids are playing completely blows my mind, to the point that I have a hard time distinguishing the talent levels. I love being able to watch a group like Colts, Music City, or Troop, groups that regularly place mid-semis levels, and just look on in awe. In regular years, I feel like the judging gives me a pre-determined understanding of how good I'm supposed to assume they are, without judges telling me group A is better than group B, I can just watch both groups and love it all.

    • Like 4
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    No scores, and I kinda like it...

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Poppycock said:

    Enjoy it while you can! BD will be getting higher scores again next season.

    Oh, and certainly well deserved, it just seems to be a trend amongst some that the only reason Blue Devils score so high is because they're the Blue Devils. Obviously they've crafted their shows and groups to completely max it out, but I'll never forget how many people complained about their 1930 show because "ThEy SaT hAlF oF tHe ShoW!!"

    • Haha 1

    No scores, and I kinda like it...

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    Surely I can't be the only one that's enjoying the lack of getting angry about scores, fuming about judges not recognizing how great this aspect of my own group's show is, why a competitive group's show should be below the group I marched, or why Blue Devils are only getting higher scores because they're the Blue Devils. There's something extremely refreshing about just getting to enjoy the fact that all of these kids are getting to play the crap out of these shows, without the pressure of appeasing to what's going to score highest on the score sheets.

    In both of the years I marched, and the subsequent decade since I aged out, I've been annoyed by the numbers game. Am I just being super millennially by saying that this year feels a lot more fun because they're catering to the audiences instead and not worrying about scoring higher than the others? 

    • Thanks 2

    2019 Uniforms

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    While I actually really like the new look, I can see the Troopers falling into the same scenario that Madison is in - they go for it really hard for a year or two, find mixed success but ultimately fall backwards, and then in a year or two, we'll see a "return to the tradition that made us who we are" or some slight variation on that.

    • Like 1

    Let's Play A Game - You Can Only Go Forward

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted · Edited by acolli17

    1 hour ago, MikeD said:

    The sheets and criteria used for evaluations were created by the corps themselves, staffs and admins, with judge input, for sure. For that reason, they are good for those most impacted, the corps being evaluated. 

    Throwing "qualified professionals" from other genres of music and/or dance into judging who have no background in marching music, and no idea how to rank and rate the corps, is looking to create chaos, IMO. How do they know how to award numbers for each subcaption? How do they know what to look for? Using their own background and trying to relate it to marching/music experience is just apples and oranges, IMO.

    Having said that, I do think that having those type of folks create tapes and talk about how the shows/performance appear to them is absolutely a great idea, but not as part of the adjudication process.

     

    What ever happened to the disney award? I don't remember what it was other than I think it was fan favorite something, all I remember was Phantom winning it in 2008 and Will Pitts essentially being brought back to life to accept the award when they won it.

    2019 Phantom Regiment

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    As a follow up to my last comment, I understand putting together a band concert and programming a drum corps show are two magnificently different challenges. There are far more things to take into consideration for an elite corps. I will definitely still cheer for Phantom loud and hard this summer, and I'm sure their show will be great.

    2019 Phantom Regiment

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    9 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

    Edit:  my post below is meant to be in response to acolli17.  How I managed to botch it under a cixelsyd post I don’t know.  My apologies——

    acolli17, Your FB post is a good read. Thank you for sharing. You’ve obviously put some self-reflection into this. So, it made me think....why do I remain bugged by this, and what is it that’s bothering me?  I keep going back to one thing you wrote - just a whole bunch of white guys. Now, I suspect you wrote this to be light hearted or self effacing. But others in the popular culture today like to weaponize these things. So I keep thinking this:  we can support, or build up, a person or group, without having to tear down another person or group. Kinda - a rising tide lifts all boats - approach. 

    So if you were to say, yeah, this is the music I chose, and it’s good stuff. Solid stuff. But I’m thinking, let’s look for some options from women composers. Or, keeping with Regiment’s theme, French composers. Or Catholic composers. Whatever or however the spirit is moving you today. It’s a way to lift up someone without at the same time criticizing another. 

    I guess that’s it. Thanks for listening. 

    I appreciate the response, for sure. And you're right about my "white guys" comment, it was meant in a sarcastic manner. I've worked really hard this year to first program music that was of high quality, but also to keep in mind the diversity of composers and compositions I've selected this year. This is the program that I had for the high school I teach at this past year (and of course we had to do a Bernstein theme for his 100th birthday as well):

    Indoor Marching Concert

    Concert Band

    • English Folk Fantasy, by Anne McGinty

    • Slavonic Dance No. 8, by Antonin Dvorak arr. Harnsberger

    • Music for Happiness, by Gerald Oswald

    Marching Band

    • “Season Highlights”

    Winter Concert

    Concert Band

    • Chasing Sunlight, by Cait Nishimura

    • A Celebration of Hannukah arr. Howard Rowe

    • Somewhere - Bernstein arr. Brown

    • Sleigh Ride, by Leroy Anderson (mass band)

    Wind Symphony

    • Solace Dance, by Nicole Piunno

    • A Simple Song, by Leonard Bernstein arr. Sweeney

    • Sounds of the Season, arr. John Moss

    • Sleigh Ride, by Leroy Anderson (mass band)

    Symphonic Band

    • A Musical Toast, by Leonard Bernstein arr. Grundman

    • Tight Squeeze, by Alex Shapiro

    • The Nutcracker Suite, by Pyotr Ilytch Tchaikovsky arr. Johnson

    • Sleigh Ride, by Leroy Anderson (mass band)

    District Band Festival

    Concert Band

    • Land of Liberty, by James Swearingen

    • Earth Song, by Frank Ticheli

    • Sunchaser, by Carol Britton Chambers

    Wind Symphony

    • Barnum and Bailey’s Favorite, by Karl L. King arr. Kerchner

    • On A Hymnsong of Philip Bliss, by David Holsinger

    • Blaze the Trail, by Lisa Galvin

    Symphonic Band

    • The Belle of Chicago, by John Philip Sousa

    • Elegy for a Young American, by Ronald Lo Presti

    • Il Burlone, by Julie Giroux (State Band Festival Selection)

    • O Magnum Mysterium, by Morten Lauridsen arr. Reynolds (State Band Festival Selection)

    Spring Concert

    Concert Band

    • The Rainbow Bridge, by Anne McGinty

    • The Hunger Games, by James Howard arr. Bocook

    • Nemesis, by Gary Fagan

    Wind Symphony

    • How to Train Your Dragon, by John Powell arr. O’Loughlin

    • Second Prelude, by George Gershwin arr. Krance

    • Spring Festival, by Chen Yi

    Symphonic Band

    • Carnegie Anthem, by William Owens

    • Lake Superior Suite, by Cait Nishimura

    • John Williams in Concert, by John Williams arr. Lavender

    • Pixar Movie Magic arr. Brown

    • Like 1

    2019 Phantom Regiment

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    16 hours ago, Drboned said:

    Why does PR need to use a female composer’s music to bring this theme to life?

    Female professionals want to be known as “professionals” not “female professionals”

    To me the way the music is used is whats important  

    please forgive me me if this was already addressed?

    I hope it's allowed to post links, but I wrote an article about this for the project I've been collaborating on with some colleagues: Inclusive Programming: My Wake-up Call

    • Like 1
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    Let's Play A Game - You Can Only Go Forward

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    23 hours ago, Spartans87 said:

    I don't want to see this activity judged like Idol or The Voice, but I have often thought it could be interesting having an outside, professional person like a Grammy award winning artist (not necessarily one that is "famous"), with a completely unbiased opinion, share their opinions on our corps.  Lets let them judge and score, and compare to what our traditional judges score, and see the differences, and hear why they evaluated the way they did.  It could be very enlightening to say the least. 

    I think it would be cool to get the perspective of a musical expert that's not necessarily fluent in the marching arts to voice their opinions on it. Whenever we talk about the really "band-o" shows, 2011 Crown is usually involved in the conversation, however they are also the show that I gravitate towards to introduce the concept of drum corps to a potential new fan for the activity. As much as I absolutely adore shows like Babylon, Tilt, and XtraordinarY, those are usually because I already have knowledge of what to look for in a show.

    Let's Play A Game - You Can Only Go Forward

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    On 6/4/2019 at 3:41 PM, FTNK said:

    I’d like to see breaking down/through the fundamental “grammar” of music and marching. A lot of posing and stomping has been added, but the fundamental marching movements and the way drill works, and how it interacts with the structure of the music, hasn’t really changed since the early 80s or before. I don’t watch much drum corps in the offseason and I’m always struck in June by how formulaic it all is- body movement as well- and samey across all the corps.

    I’d love to see some really out of the box, experimental stuff. True improvisation, new ways on combining sound and movement, more varied timbres, radically different conceptualizations of space... I know this will never happen. Most shows have less varied dynamics and timbres than they did 20 years ago, it seems like you go from full brass forte to pit break to brass forte to full battery etc... I blame Cesario’s Zhdanov Decree about entertainment.

    TL,DR: I wanna see and hear some weird ####.

    I think it would be cool to see a section of true improv - let the musicians get creative so it's not the exact same every night. One of the big criticisms of drum corps that I've heard from my non-marching-oriented musician friends is that it's not true musicality because it's so planned and directed, down to the slightest detail. I know it'd be taking a risk, but if we truly want to show the musicianship of the marching members, maybe that's a way to do it?

    • Like 1

    Let's Play A Game - You Can Only Go Forward

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, Stu said:

    1) Independent governing/sanctioning body.

    2) Adjudication by music/artistic professionals who are independent of drum corps.

    That second one would definitely create a new dynamic for show design, and I think it's a good step without going all the way to "fan favorite." I absolutely agree, it'd be interesting having an assessment from an outside individual or group of individuals.

    Let's Play A Game - You Can Only Go Forward

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted · Edited by acolli17

    I'm curious what changes people would like to see happen to the Drum Corps activity, however I have a caveat - only comment with things that you would like to see changed that's not going back to older traditions. We all know the ideas of going back to standard uniforms, no mics, G bugles, no voiceovers/electronics, etc.

    What would you like to see in the activity that's never been done before?

    And playing Abb or Fx bugles doesn't count.

    • Haha 1
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