pizzaguy

IF it happens, I have absolutely no doubt that it will be limited to a small number of mic'd soloists in the pit. Just one more color in the palette, along w/ voice and synths. I don't think there is any danger of DCI EVER fielding marching WW lines. Along w/ the upkeep and weather issues, it just doesn't make competitive sense. As I've said before, a corps fielding marching woodwinds would be like an NFL team replacing their specials teams w/ 110 lb. accountants. NOT gonna happen. I hope that it doesn't pass, but I agree there's a good chance it will. And if so, not that much of a biggie. I think they would be used sparingly and tastefully.

Yep, Jim Casella's book was rockin'. One of the best ever imo. I personally don't see how the Rennicks can possibly match it. Hope I'm wrong. Time will tell.

Completely agree. I'm an old schooler and I'm in love with the 2013 reps. With extremely few exceptions, I think the music this year is more exciting, engaging, and fan-friendly than in quite some time. Don't know how much of this is due to the new sheets and the Cesario factor, but I applaud the designers for finally starting to get it that when the fans win, everyone wins.

While I completely agree that there is a lot of great current pop music that would work well for corps and I really like the tunes picked by the OP, I disagree w/ the opinion that corps haven't brought the house down musically in the last 6 or 7 years. As an old fart myself, I see the musical direction of the past few years as a rebirth towards more of an old school approach to programming. The reps for 2011-13 are, for the most part, more fan-friendly and emotionally engaging than previous years and a move towards more musically- rather than visually-driven shows. The reps are getting better every year imo. There are notable exceptions, but I see a clear trend in the right direction. While a lot of it is very good, exciting symphonic and wind band music (some of which has been done before, but I don't have a problem w/ that), there is quite a bit of equally good pop and jazz stuff. Rather than a drastic change or reversal of programming, I see the OP's idea as complementary to an already improving programming trend.

This is the crux of the whole style difference issue. Music vs. visual. And how the raw emotional impact of the music side has been tempered w/ the need to synchronize it w/ the visual side. This trend started in the early 90s and resulted in some truly horrendous musical programming, especially in lower ranking corps. I would equate this period w/ the Modern Era following the Romantic Era. Difficult and intellectually interesting, but doesn't hit you in the gut like you want it to. On the bright side, in the past few years the pendulum has been swinging back to more exciting, emotional, crowd-pleasing music programming. Obviously, we can't go back to less demanding drills, nor would anyone want to. But we can and are going back to the heart of drum corps, music that drives you to your feet in screaming ecstacy like nothing else can. While I greatly credit Michael Cesario for his influence, I think it's bigger than one man. I think corps management is finally getting that drum corps is an entertainment product and shows like 2008 Regiment and 2009 SCV should be the rule, not the exception. When the fans win, everyone wins, financially, artistically, and experientially. While this overall trend started a few years back, it really hit me when I saw this year's reps start going up. Madison, SCV, Regiment, Crossmen, Troopers. The smile on my face getting bigger w/ every announcement. Still not completely uniform, but a clear trend IMO. And while the Bb horns aren't as loud as the G horns, the bigger hornlines at least somewhat offset this. I think things are really getting better and there is just cause for us old schoolers to take heart.

Hi, I've got some used CDs and DVDs I need to sacrifice due to a financial crunch. They are all in very good condition w/ no scratches and very lightly played. Here's the list: 2006 Cadets Studio CD 2005 Crossmen Studio CD Brass Theater 3 CD w/ Star of Indiana Time For A Change CD w/ High Brass British drum corps brass ensemble (jewel case is missing; CD is in paper sleeve) Eastman Wind Ensemble Live in Osaka CD Maynard Ferguson These Cats Can Swing CD Woody Herman Giant Steps CD 2011 DCI 4-CD Set (Only the top 19 corps; disk 4 and liner notes are missing) 2010 DCA 3-CD Set 11 1/2 Minutes DVD w/ Blue Devils 2004 Santa Clara Vanguard Tour DVD The CDs are $5 each, except for the 2010 and 2011 multiple CD sets which are $10 each. The DVDs are $10 each. Or everything listed here for $60. Shipping additional. I will use any USPS shipping option you like. I recommend media mail because it's the cheapest option they have and, in my experience, usually almost as fast as priority mail. I'll accept paypal or you can mail a M.O./cashier's check. If you pm me, I'll be happy to send you the playlist and more details for any items you're interested in. Thanks! Larry

I'm not trashing their corps either. At all. I'm just saying yes, there are real differences. And we're not haters and knee-jerk reactionaries. We are just saddened by how the activity has changed and there are valid reasons.

The criticism sometimes offered by us "crotchety old people" is NOT, repeat, NOT directed at the marching members. We KNOW they are great kids, just as dedicated and hard-working as those of any era, and that they love this activity just as passionately as anyone can. And we know they give their all and deliver very exciting and entertaining performances. It's not that we're nay-saying for its own sake or that we're negative people w/ a critical outlook. It's that we're terribly sad because we miss what drum corps once was and we wish it could be that way again. Not only for ourselves, but for this generation and generations to come. The differences between drum corps now and BITD aren't small and superficial. Another poster very eloquently pointed out the profound impact large numbers of community-based corps had on the lives of thousands of young people. This is the most important thing that's missing now. While present day corps serve the relatively small number of participants very well and can still be a saving force in young lives, it's not the tremendous force for good it once was. It would be so great if DCI would seriously undertake to bring back grass roots drum corps along the lines of the Garden State Circuit and provide leadership training and a competitive framework for these low-budget corps. The other thing that's different in a big way IMO is the raw musical power and impact of corps of the 70s/80s era. Again, I'm talking about show design here, NOT performance level. Part of it is the volume difference w/ G vs. Bb horns, and I know the real financial reasons for this, but G horns are not illegal and they are still sold, and someone could field such a line if they wished to. Most of it is visual vs. music in judging and show design. Of course, the former determines the latter. BITD, music comprised 2/3 of the total score; today it's 1/2. Hence the chop and bop style of arranging to compliment visual design as opposed to a fully developed, sophisticated, completely musical arrangement which is faithful to the original piece. Not to say this is never done anymore, but seems to be more exception than rule.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I loved those street beats. Can't remember which year, but in one of those years, they changed the rules so the corps could only play bass drum beats off the field. So Fred Sanford wrote an elaborate and really cool full cadence for the bass line. Which, of course, they play to this very day, and is now one of their traditions. Leave it to SCV! And I remember on my 1978 SOA tape, the entire corps whistling Dixie as they entered the stadium!

Lots of variance in the different Panasonic models. I tried using a thin line model in the mid 80s and the quality was quite terrible.

lol. None taken. And yeah, I can see how I look like one of the teenagers in an old bad movie from MST3K who is like, "but Sheriff, there REALLY ARE gigantic moths on route 34. THERE ARE. I SAW them! You've GOTTA believe me!" But if I still had them, I honestly think you would be convinced.

BITD in the late 70s and early 80s when recording from the stands was kosher, I used to always make cassettes w/ my handy dandy Panasonic RQ309 and OMG, the quality was just unreal. Best I''ve ever heard. Better even than the DAT audio from the blu-rays of today and the studio recordings. And way way better than the DCI records of the day. (note to any young people on here: you know, the big, black CDs!) Sadly, I lost all of them years ago, IDIOT that I am! But, wow, the power and warmth of the brass and the characteristic crispness of the battery. Most lifelike audio I've ever heard. Just wondering about others' experiences w/ cassettes from the stands and your opinions on the quality vs. DCI pro audio?

Thanks! I've heard this on youtube quite a few times and it's great. Lloyd REALLY gets into it. lol. :) btw, here's the youtube link if the fb one doesn't work for some of you.

I heard this show in Greeley a few days earlier and was COMPLETELY blown away. Had no idea what was coming and the magnificence of that hornline hit me like a sublime nuclear bomb. Then heard it again in Boulder and Denver. Thought they shoulda had high brass @ finals. My fave brass charts ever; bluesy, soulful, and emotionally uplifting. Whenever I feel down, I listen to this show and I'm happy again. It's like prozac w/ shakos. lol. I made a cassette tape on my handy dandy Panasonic deck at the Greeley show that sounded AWESOME. Way way better than the DCI audio. (which was terrible that year.) Like an idiot I lost it. Would give ANYTHING to have it back again. :( But, wow, what GREAT charts. Jim Ott wrote a LOT of great charts of different genres of music, but to me personally, this show is his greatest masterpiece. And to take a relatively inexperienced hornline like that and come w/in .05 of high brass. Wow, that says a lot!

Thanks!

Yep. I agree completely. All of Casella's SCV books had amazing musicality and effect in terms of complimenting the hornline, as well as KILLER percussion features. Btw, not sure why you wrote "Gusseck/Casella" as Casella was sole designer all the years they worked together. (and caption mgr. all years except '04.) Nothing against Murray. Just assigning proper credit.

EXACTLY! These are all the specific reasons that marching woodwinds will NEVER be legalized. The voting board members are aware of all these things and they are not stupid. At least they're not THAT stupid. It would be tantamount to signing a mass suicide pact for the activity. We're not talking about changing drum corps into marching band. What we're talking about is AT MOST a very small number (probably 1-3) of selectively employed amped woodwinds in the pit. This is just for clarification due to all the marching band paranoia on this thread.

Yes. Exactly. I found "Seasons of Love" from the 2004 Crown show to be sheer magic. One of my fave moments of the year. I also really liked the vocal in the ballad from Cadets 2006. Spoken narration was HIGHLY unpopular w/ most fans (including me.) So guess what? Nobody does it anymore, EVEN THOUGH it's legal. This demonstrates that designers ARE sensitive to what fans want, at least to some degree. I'm not militantly pro-woodwind. I'm actually reluctant about the idea. I'm just saying that if it happens, it won't be the end of drum corps as we know it. I have NO DOUBT that it WILL be done in a judicious and effective way. And I'm certainly not gonna let a few virtuoso woodwind solos cause me to desert the activity I love.

A googleplex times YES!! Drum corps music late 70s to present is the most beautiful, powerful, and exciting music the world has ever witnessed and this is the greatest youth activity on earth. I will ALWAYS support this activity. I agree w/ others that marching woodwinds don't have a snowball's chance of passing, for a number of very good reasons, but there will very likely soon be amped woodwinds in the pit. I'm not very enthused about this because, being human, I'm resistant to change. I was also worried about the addition of amplification, voice, and electronics. And before that, any-key brass. But now, after the fact, I see that most of the changes actually made drum corps better. (especially pit amplification.) So I'm willing to give it a chance and hope to be proven wrong. I need to remember that music designers are not idiots. If woodwinds are added, they will be done so in a judicious and effective way.

1. I don't care what my therapist says, I DON'T have an eating disorder.

1. In first place, with a score of one billion...one...billion...Pioneer!

1. "######, Jim. I'm a doctor, not a low brass tech." Oh, wait a minute. Wrong Bones. Never mind.

1984 Vanguard by light years. I totally agree w/ ronlambplays & Bruckner8. Gordon Henderson's arrangement was a complete production, and brilliantly written. Arguably the most masterfully dramatic build of brass sound in DCI history. I was in row 1 on the 50 in Denver and I will NEVER forget how completely devastating that company front was. I was so emotionally drained after the soft ending, I could have seriously considered seeking professional counseling to deal w/ the emotional aftermath! Absolutely deadly hornline (and drumline) performance. If there are any flaws in the recorded sound quality, they are technical recording issues and not performance issues. The others were good productions that I enjoyed. But to me, it's like the old SNL Jeopardy parody w/ Steve Martin. The contestants are Bob, Sue, and God. God's score is 10 million dollars compared w/ zero for Bob and Sue. So Steve says "It looks like Bob and Sue have a little catching up to do." So do Crown and Cadets.