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Posts posted by CrownBariDad
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View PostRifuarian, on 02 May 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:
It's all in how the judging community decides to interpret the sheets. I'm not convinced there will be any significant change.
And what change(s) are we collectively hoping for? Some shift in the paradigm that will recognize and reward the superiority of our own favored teams, I suppose. Tick system, degree of difficulty, MA/PA, build-up scoring... bonne chance a tous, mes amis!
Peace,
Fred O.
What I had in mind was anything which would encourge the kind of shows we had last season. Many folks on these forums commented on how much they liked the direction of 2011 from all the Corps, top to bottom. I would like to see that continue.
Merci!
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Maybe it's just me, but I can't imagine taking a decibel meter to Lucas Oil Stadium any more than I could see myself going across town and taking a radar gun to the Indianapolis 500. Kind of sucks out part of the fun of just experiencing the joy of being there...in my personal opinion. I love loud, but seeing the loudness quantified would kind of put a damper on the emotions for me. I'm concerned I would think, "Oh, that is absolutely magnifi...oh, it wasn't as loud as I thought it was."
Having said that, I'm in favor of fans doing whatever it takes to maximize their own live experience.
Since I'm a "Mythbusters" kind of guy, I wanted to see if there was any correlation between loudness perception and measured values. But, as has been mentioned on this and similar threads, there are just too many variables to get accurate measurements. Thus, the jury is still out.
So, this might be the season I take your advice and just sit back and enjoy Drum Corps. Also, due to the striking similarities between dB meters and hand-held digital recorders, I hated getting those dirty looks from the staff and ushers during the show.
Thanks!
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I must ask, was your db meter mounted in the exact same place each time, or were you simply holding it and 'pointing' at the corps.
I actually brought a monopod (versus a tripod, for space/safety concerns) to Atlanta, but was not allowed to carry it into the venue. They kindly stored it at the Security desk for me until after the show. So, yes--it was hand held.
There were a couple of performances where the brass was predominately left or right of the 50-yard line in the portions I measured. Since I was primarily measuring brass volume, I did point the mic at the "center of mass" for the brass on the field.
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It's all in how the judging community decides to interpret the sheets. I'm not convinced there will be any significant change.
Hmmmm...while I was (secretly) hoping for some big changes in the judging system this year, I'm thinking you might be right. It might just be all spin, but in the end--nothing changes.
Time will tell....
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This might also work for high schoolers. (My wife teaches music at a local elementary school and does this for the 4-6 graders. They love it! The 4th-now-6th graders always pester her this time of year about "when are we gonna watch some more Drum Corps?")
Pick either the top 3 or maybe the 3 most "accessible" shows from a single year. Show them to the kids (randomize the order) and then have them vote for the rankings. As they might not match up with the actual results, that gives you the opportunity to talk a little about how Drum Corps is judged.
Good luck! Have fun!!!
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Maybe on championship weekend they have an extra trophy/competition for sound, volume, loudness.
Every corps that enters the competition must be located in the same spot as the other corps, around the 50 yard line.
Think of it as the slam dunk nba contest.
I guess this would be doable, but you'd have to include "style points" (ah, here comes those subjective judges again) for intonation, choice of material, etc. in addition to pure dB measurements. Otherwise, the result might be loud, but not pretty--IMHO it needs to be both.
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I'm game! We could also do a reading from the warm up arc, as well?
We'll have to see how the season goes, but I'm in.
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...numbers of people in the audience. The more people in the stands, the more sound is absorbed. The LESS people in the stands, the more sound resonates. Hmmmmm...in the case of your question with Jersey Surf?
Actually for Madison, the crowd reaction could not be factored out of the measurement, even using a directional mic.
And frankly, I wasn't paying too much attention to the meter during the end of their show.
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Speaking seriously now, does anyone think that at prelims in Indiana, the Jersey Surf hornline was 10 decibels louder than the hornline of the Blue Knights? The closer you look at those numbers, the less sense they make. Besides, if we are really measuring peak sound levels, percussion must have more impact on the results than brass.
I tried to avoid using "impact hits" (especially when reinforced by the pit bass drum(s)) as the loudest value, but sometimes it was unavoidable.
The whole point of the exercise was to avoid perception as much as possible and present some real measurements. It would be nice (if we do this in the future) if those participating would pool their measurements (and seating locations) so we might get a better picture on all of this. However, as has been said before--there are TOO many variables to consider when trying to make volume comparisons between Corps. Even the stuff I posted, I generally view as "gee whiz" data--not much more.
Thanks!
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The middle of Crown '09s ballad at the
-- just celeste playing.Quietest I've ever heard a crowd at a drum corps show. Virtually complete silence at that moment -- so cool.
I don't think anyone sitting with us in the Crown block seats breathed thru the entire solo. We were so afraid someone was going to yell "Go Crown!" or "Way to go Nick!" and spoil the moment. Thank goodness no one did. Kudos to ALL the fans!
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Other than the Crown selections mentioned above (yes, I'm a homer), words escape me to describe the "Bring Him Home" bari solo from 2011 Boston Crusaders.
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It's my civic duty to remind everyone that volume measured by devices (ie, Physics) is totally different than what humans perceive as loud (Physiology).
Totally agree!
Also, the OP specifically targeted the loudest hornline. My measurements above included the entire Corps--brass, battery, and pit. As was noted last year, my measuring position down front may have picked up more PA reinforcement than the brass who typically aim for the pressbox.
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You bring a db meter to shows?
Fred O.
Don't you? ;-)
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I posted this back in Sep after 2011 Finals--for reference only, not implying anything scientific, your measurements/perceptions may vary, etc.
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[i thought this might be better in its own thread since it's really about the Indy Preliminaries measurements.]
I really didn't have great seats for Prelims this year -- Section 139 Row 23 Seat 10 which is the next to last row in the back of the lower section on about the right 40 yd line -- so I was considering not posting the Prelim measurements, but why not? Overall, it looks like the Prelims were a few dB below Atlanta mainly because I was a bit further back.
Below, the first number is from Atlanta, the 2nd number is the Indy Prelim measurement (loudest value).
We'll try again next year. I promise I'll upgrade my meter so I won't have to switch ranges, so I won't miss anything.
Oregon Crusaders: N/A 104
Blue Devils B: N/A 107
Pioneer: 106 101
Jersey Surf: 112 112
Teal Sound: 109 105
Mandarins: 109 104
Cascades: 110 106
Crossmen: 112 107 (Prelims: Warmup facing backfield 92 dB)
Pacific Crest: 108 104
Colts: 111 110
The Academy: 110 105
Glassmen: 113 111
Troopers: 110 107
Blue Knights: 108 102
Blue Stars: 108 105
Spirit of Atlanta: 113 108
Santa Clara Vanguard: 111 106
Boston Crusaders: 107 104
Madison Scouts: 119 115
Bluecoats: 111 107
Phantom Regiment: 114 111
Carolina Crown: 120+ 115
The Cavaliers: 113 113
The Cadets: 110 104
Blue Devils: 109 110
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DCI Finals should move to the high school stadium next to my house so I can walk to the events and not have to pay for a hotel.
'Nuff said!
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Thanks for the reply!
I think the loading bar may be not detecting when loading is complete. As I mentioned above, if there is just one loading bar on the screen, I can scroll around it and still use the forums. I've verified I have a good connection. BTW: I've even seen this loading bar using MSIE on my computer (only on DCP forums), but it is always out of the way and quickly disappears.
When I point Safari to the forums URL, I get the same app I'm using with the same problem. Oh, well....
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I'm using the IP.Board iPhone app (iOS 5.1). Whenever I'm browsing the threads in a forum, I often see this dark gray "Loading..." bar over the list of threads and it doesn't go away.
If it's just one, I can deal with it (but it sure is annoying). Sometimes, there are 2 bars which makes it nearly impossible to select any threads to view.
(I have a screen shot, but not sure how to embed it in the post from my computer.)
Any ideas how to get rid of this Loading bar?
thanks,
randy
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Probably about as much effect as it had in 77, 78 and 04 as well as every year at DATR. Unless of course the Rockies are still pushing upward at a noticeable rate.
The problem I was thinking about is altitude sickness--a real problem for those of us who hang around sea level.
If you figure 23 WC Corps at 150 members (or so), that's over 3000 members. Just throwing out a WAG (wild a** guess), if 0.5% can't take the change in altitude that's around 15 members. Even if it's only one, if that one is your lead sop, featured guard, center snare, DM, etc., it probably won't be good.
But we all know that members, unfortunately, get injured and the show must go on. Just something to consider.
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So something like Denver would be ideal?
I still think the west coast is pushing it. I love California, and I loved performing there. That doesn't make it ideal for finals.
I had thought about that, too. My first live DCI event was Drums Along the Rockies when I lived in CO. Loved it!!!!
But, as the sign at the Air Force Academy stadium (at about 1000 ft higher than Mile High) warns visiting teams--"Air is Rare". How much of an impact that would have on Finals I don't know.
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I can drive to Indy--it's a long day's drive, but doable. It's a 3-day drive to the west coast (can't afford the outrageous baggage fees to fly the kids equipment back) and I can't afford to miss the extra days at work (self-employed).
Finals need to be centrally located to make it accessible to as many folks as possible.
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Coolest and the Best of '11
Opener- Bluecoats
Ballad/Middle- Cadets
Closer- Madison
Solo- Boston
Drill moves- Blue Devils
Guard- Crown
I was almost going to say "Ballad - Cadets" WHAT??? But, then I saw you put "Solo - Boston". YES!!! I'll probably still be remembering that moment when 2011 is referred to as "back in the day".
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I had always thought you needed more French Horns because their sound was being directed towards the back of the orchestra and away from the audience. Plus, they almost always use their hand to shape the sound.
In this setting, I've heard the rule of thumb is you need 2 horns to balance 1 trumpet.
(If someone has already said this above, sorry. I haven't had my coffee yet.)
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Drums need to be p*#$ clean.
Show needs to be capable of winning.
I don't see it happening this year.
From what I've seen and heard of the show, this could be the year. Great music!
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PLEEEEASE! WIll SOMEONE from Crown please come on here and confirm my fairly certain belief that there was a 14 year old in Crown recently and put this subject to rest once and for all.
Son says there was a 15-year old baritone player that marched '08-'09. Didn't know about anyone younger.
Few Brass Spots at SOA (1 tpt, 1 tuba, 1 bari)
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
It seems the easiest way to handle it is to edit one of the duplicates and replace all the text with "double post" or something similar. If there's a way to actually delete one of your own posts, I'm not aware of how to do it.
Of course, all of us have wished there was a way to delete OTHER folks' posts from time to time, but that's another story. ;-)