Martin I. Zing

And let's not forget, I really have no idea what I'm talking about, despite all my posturing!

The ORIGINAL LaCrosse® Blue Stars have such a great and noble history with DCI. That is why it is especially painful to watch them get screwed out of the FINALS this season. It still rubs me the wrong way and I think there is something that smells funny about the way they were treated. Judging by the PRIVATE MESSAGES and E-mails I've received, so do many others.

Yes Craig, you are correct; the Blue Stars WILL get over it and they WILL either bounce back or pack it in. And I don't blame the individual members of the Crossmen or their parents either. In fact I feel sorry for them. But the more stink and truth there is to the premise the more cover-up and bogus defense is offered. You give them more rope and all they end up are doing is hanging themselves. I asked for an example of another corps that moved up 2 and 1/2 points in 5 days WITHOUT HELP at anytime in the 2012 season and now they're going back 24 years to find examples. You should read some of the Private Messages and E-mails that I've received. Many are words of encouragement to keep the heat on while others include stories making claims that even I find hard to believe. People have tried to tell me many things I already know. What is good to know is that lots of people feel the same way I do. And we know who to blame. But thanks for your comments. --Martin

We're gettin' there. A darker NAVY blue and a return to the PITH helmet and I could vote for it. Good job to all who have contributed to this discussion. Thank you. Crossmen are ready to write a check.

Yes. Good point. I misread the question. I didn't take into account the dci-only timespan. Sorry.

It would be Cavaliers, Troopers, and Madison Scouts in that order. And if you added Senior corps Hawthorne would have to be added.

And now back to my fellow conspiracy theorists. FACT: Garfield Cadets 2012 Schedule - 32 Shows prior to Finals week. Crossmen 2012 Schedule - 28 Shows prior to Finals week. Shared appearances - 21. Distance between home bases - 1740 miles. Please start drawing your own conclusions. If you have any facts or theories that you don't wish to post on the public Forum, please feel free to send me a Private Message. Thank you. Martin I. Zing --Investigator

NeutralNovice I'm with you. I like your thinking. With the movie coming out at Christmas, your idea is can't miss or should I say Can't Miz! But with the way things have been going in drum corps over the last few seasons, SCV would be taking a huge risk by joining Madison, Jersey Surf, Carolina Crown and others in this direction. You know the trouble don't you? You can actually hum and remember the melodies of all the tunes in Les Miz. This would put them in a huge disadvantage against BD and many of the other artsy fartsy corps. Also the MAJORITY of the people sitting in the stadiums would be ENTERTAINED. I don't think dci could handle that kind of position PR. But keep it up. We need your type of Dreamers!

barigirl78 is correct. I made a mistake in listing the Blue Stars score for the Dublin show. It should read 82.2. Thank you for bringing it to our attention. I went back and made the correction to the original posting. It does not change the results. The Blue Stars still won all 7 head-to-head meetings with the Crossmen this summer until the Semi-Finals. And more telling than anything, --as I pointed out, we are being asked to believe the Crossmen's "product" moved up over 2 and a half points in 5 days WITHOUT help between August 5 and 10. I'm waiting for someone to site a similar example of any other corps that had this kind of miraculous improvement in 2012? Plain and simple, the Blue Stars got screwed. And along with the Troopers, they are the two corps who are continually treated with No Respect. So back to the original question; my prediction for 2013? I would not be surprised if both corps folded or decided to sit the season out. Martin I. Zing --Retired

Date Location Corps Score Corps Score Winner COMMENTS: August 5 Pittsburgh Crossmen 83.1 Blue Stars 85.45 Blue Stars Neutral site less than one week from Finals week and up by more than 2 full points on Crossmen. August 10 dci Semi-Finals Crossmen win for the first time in EIGHT HEAD-TO HEAD CONTESTS! The FIX was in. My opinion? Blue Stars were tossed under the bus. You want us to believe the Crossmen's "product" moved up over 2 and a half points in 5 days WITHOUT help? Can you point out any other corps that had this kind of improvement? Sorry. NEVER! Do you want me to keep going and reveal some other facts that will prove to be very embarassing to several people who are now sweating like stuck pork? I don't get to use much of these skills since I left Langley.

You asked for it and BRASSO was afraid to or incapable of delivering. Record of all HEAD-TO-HEAD contests between Blue Stars and Crossmen in Summer of 2012 Date Location Corps Score Corps Score Winner COMMENTS: July 14 Mpls. Crossmen 72.8 Blue Stars 74.75 Blue Stars Mpls. is as close as Blue Stars will get to a "home" site this season in head-to-head vs. Crossmen. July 21 San Antonio Crossmen 77.55 Blue Stars 77.95 Blue Stars San Antonio is home base for Crossmen. July 28 Atlanta Crossmen 80.20 Blue Stars 81.65 Blue Stars Neutral site. July 31 Dublin, OH Crossmen 81.65 Blue Stars 82.2 Blue Stars Neutral site. August 4 Allentown Crossmen 82.3 Blue Stars 83.2 Blue Stars Allentown was once home base for Crossmen. August 5 Pittsburgh Crossmen 83.1 Blue Stars 85.45 Blue Stars Neutral site less than one week from Finals week and up by more than 2 full points on Crossmen. August 9 dci Prelims Crossmen 83.4 Blue Stars 83.75 Blue Stars Something smells funny here even if Blue Stars had an "off" show at prelims, they should bounce back. August 10 dci Semi-Finals Crossmen win for the first time in EIGHT HEAD-TO HEAD CONTESTS! The FIX was in. My opinion? Blue Stars were tossed under the bus. RE: Match-up with Crossmen, you don't win all seven head-to-head contests including all three Regionals, Allentown and Prelims to be treated like the Blue Stars were; especially when you are one of the original 13 founding corps of dci. This is what I mean when I say the Blue Stars (and the Troopers) are SHOWN NO RESPECT. And I will stand by my words until my dying day. And as for name-calling, I'd ask others to look in a mirror before making that claim. And be careful. It seems to me, there are many true professionals on this Forum. I'm proud to count myself among them.

That's it. The ORIGINAL LaCrosse® Blue Stars. The real deal!

Thanks for the photo Spandy! Brings a tear to my eye. The originals were a little darker blue, had short sleeves and the plumes were not as big. And the guard wore shorts as I mentioned previously while all other guards wore shirts. Blue Stars started as a color guard on Brice Prairie, WI and then they formed a corps by absorbing an existing corps from LaCrescent, MN known as the AppleArrows. In about their third or fourth season they tried foil plumes instead of feather plumes. I think a return to modern versions of any of the original "look" would be a move in the right direction. As others had said, when you're one of 13 founders of the (dci) activity and you have spent so much time and money to develop an instantly recognizable identity (i.e., Cavies, Scouts, SCV, Garfield, Troopers etc.) why would you abandon it? It would be like the Kilties coming back in shakos and pants!

I agree with those who liked and would like to see a return to the PITH helmet. And the original uniforms never had any "stars" anywhere. The shakos and grey make them unrecognizable and nondistinctive. Return to your roots and quit trying to look like the Blue Stars of Indiana. The Original LaCrosse® Blue Stars guard wore shorts when all the other guards wore shirts. They were the sex symbols or their day. Of course today, the shorts they wore would be conservative. Now a return to the Navy Blue against the green of the field would look good. The grey and green are too close to each other in the color spectrum to provide any contrast.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. The self-declared genius, Reverend BRASSO has promised to do extensive research comparing the head-to-head match-ups of the Blue Stars and Crossmen from this past summer to prove without doubt that the scores weren't FIXED to allow the Crossmen (from Texas --but originally the feeder corps of George Hopkins' Garfield Cadets) to sneak into the finals ahead of the BS (soon approaching their 50th year of continuous operation). Sit tight. I'm sure he'll come through with some fascinating facts to share with us.

Sorry, you've got me confused with someone else. I don't believe in slotting at all. I'm the one who thinks all the scores are FIXED. But maybe that's what you mean by the term "slotting"? Suggest you take the time to compare the NINE head-to-head contests where Blue Stars and Crossmen faced each other and let us know the results. I'll stand on your findings, Mr. Brasso. ____________________________________________ It doesn't take 36 judges. It takes one judge. We're waiting for the results of your research Reverend Brasso.

Sorry, you've got me confused with someone else. I don't believe in slotting at all. I'm the one who thinks all the scores are FIXED. But maybe that's what you mean by the term "slotting"? Suggest you take the time to compare the NINE head-to-head contests where Blue Stars and Crossmen faced each other and let us know the results. I'll stand on your findings, Mr. Brasso.

You've got it backwards. The Blue Stars and Troopers OPERATE with plenty of respect. It's that they are SHOWN no respect by dci as they near their 50th seasons. You don't let the Crossmen sneak into the Finals at the 11th hour after beating them and others ahead of you all summer long if you truly respect them. Blue Stars got thrown under the bus and the Troopers have been kicked around for several seasons. How much longer do you think they will take it? Lots of butts are kissed and calls for help are answered when you're in the world of the cake-eaters. But try to get them to listen when you're the Racine Scouts or a corps that is 50+ and helped to build the building you now call HOME.

Yes. But how many seasons can you continue operating with No Respect?

Blue Stars and Troopers will fold. Or at least sit out for a season and "re-organize".

Yes sir, your right. And while were at it, let's fix the scores and step on them Blue Stars with the heel of our cowboy boots and throw 'em under the bus where dose Troopers is hidin' out both of them corps ain't worth a hoot anymore even though people seems to like 'em. Dose corps is lost at sea without an island an the longer we keep 'em out of the finals people will start to forget 'em and dis will give us time to figure out how to use the spellchecker and punktation feature and put a corps together in Texas Plus at least we can use some of the boots that dose Troopers used to where

I've made changes allowing POSTS so that this POLL will move higher up the Forums' list and see more action. Please participate Dear Wise and Learned Ones. Okay, I apologize for the cynicism and sarcasm. Seriously. I've tried to be as unbiased here as I can possibly be. I want your opinion, but only once. Thanks. Martin I. Zing

I think on Monday at noon, DCP should shut down for 30 days for a cooling off period. I think there is too much negativity coming off the Forums . . . more than at anytime in history. That is my suggestion for the future.

Who pays for it? Three of those corps listed might not have enough $$$ to field a corps in their own neighborhoods next year much less travel out West. Does dci help subsidize that Western trip?

Now that the 2012 season is over I wanted to conduct an unscientific test with two questions. All I ask is that you ONLY VOTE ONCE on question #1. You can vote for more than one answer on Question #2. Please participate. Thanks. Martin