actucker

For what its worth, without a field judge at finals week this summer, Bluecoats win the Sanford. Take that into consideration. Not saying its a good or a bad thing. Just an observation based on the recap.

Here's your first word on the matter regarding what drum corps staffs (of which you have not been a part) do or don't do in an audition situation: "If drummers skills can only be evaluated in field competition, than every off season camp tryout would have every drummer evaluated by staff on a football field, and in movement while playing on the football field throughout the evaluation process." This is a straw man argument, so its irrelevant. Nobody said the only way to evaluate drumlines (which are different from percussion sections) is on the field in competition. You were the first to bring up a football field. "But most don't. Drummers are selected ( and rejected ) primarily in a standstill competition among other drummers for a spot in line." Sure sounds like you're saying exactly what I said you said. Here's a hint on how I know... I quoted you in my post! "So if staffers can make important decisions on which drummers are skilled better than other drummers from essentially a standstill, non marching environment, it most certainly calls into question that drummers abilities need to be seen in a marching environment on a football field. Most staffers don't even do this when they watch, and make assessments on the comparative abilities of drummers at camp tryouts.. If they don't see this as most critical in determining who can drum better, and make decisions on who gets a spot in the drumline and who does not, than neither do I ( nor anyone else)" Here's the part where you show your ignorance, since you don't seem to be able to grasp the difference between evaluating auditioning members and evaluating the 12 best drum lines in the world. Here's a tip. The majority of the auditioning members are not currently members of the top 12 battery sections in the world. Its a pretty big difference. You also try to put your ears in the same conversation as that of the best in the business. Its pretty slick for sure, but we all know better. "Again, my essential point however, hopefully not lost in all this, is that show design bleeds now into the percussion scores. Thats just my opinion. Nobody has to accept that opinion either. I make no demands that they do. its just a discussion thought, no more, no less. I think Cadets subpar show design pulled their drum scores down a bit, and into 5th place in Percussion. Can't prove it though, Can't be disproved either. So thats that, I guess." You're welcome to that opinion. Its just a sadly uninformed one that dismisses half of the conversation by your own admission. Maybe Cadets were better than a top 5 drum line, but since the caption isn't called drum line, but instead called percussion, your point isn't particularly well supported either.

There you go again trying to argue against a point that hasn't been made. But you already know that. Keep on pushing that straw man. You're not fooling anyone. Meanwhile, I've been around plenty of drum corps auditions since its what I do for a living (teaching and writing for band and drum corps). Your assertion that drum corps staff's primarily evaluate members in a standstill situation is flat out incorrect. The Facebook posts from drum corps every November and December with members on the move are plenty of proof of that if you don't want to take my word for it. Also, as I explained to you, its much easier to separate kids at an audition, where the talent pool is significantly more diverse. When judging the members of the upper echelon of world class, the standards are much closer together, and every method of delineation matters. These kids have now been playing together for months. You're past the point of whether or not a kid is learning the technique you want him to learn, and on to whether or not the ensemble can produce at the highest level. Bottom line: you can't evaluate a percussion section purely via youtube.

Really? How many drum corps percussion staffs have you been on? How do you know what the evaluation process is, or how members are being evaluated? I've never auditioned at, nor taught a drum corps that didn't evaluate their drummers on the move. I don't know of a single drum corps that doesn't either. At auditions, you're also dealing with a considerably wider range of talent. Its much easier to weed out the kids who don't have what it takes when you're not looking at groups entirely comprised of world class drum corps performers. None of this is to mention the complex and convoluted way we (as battery instructors) find to simulate the environment and coordination on the field. From tracking, to lot drill, to rehearsing in forms, we go out of our way to simulate the environment on the field. Why would we do that if it didn't make a huge difference? Also, now you're the one arguing against things that weren't said. Nobody is saying that the only way to evaluate drummers' abilities is on the move. We're simply saying that Youtube doesn't tell you enough to make that kind of determination.

Not somewhat. Completely different. The difference has nothing to do with how it contributes to the show. That actually doesn't even appear on the sheet. As for your assessment of Crown vs the Cadets, that's your opinion. From what I saw this year, Cadets had issues executing on the move in some places, and Crown did not. This was far and away the best Crown drumline I've seen in quite some time. I wasn't there for championships week, so I don't know whether or not Crown was better through the week, but "laughable"? This is either hyperbole, or bias. One or the other.

Nobody said that lot videos are the sole basis upon which to gauge drumlins, but you, in fact, did say: "my ears and eyes tell me that the Cadets had a far better drumline than " 5th " place from watching their line play on youtube. Also, for perspective, just a couple of years back, when the Bluecoats Show Design was not quite as good as this years, their Drumline ( still found there on youtube ) was WAYYY better than they were getting credit for. I personally do not think that this season's Bluecoats percussion line was as good as that of just 2 years ago. ( people here can youtube the 2 Bluecoat lines, and decide what they think as well)." Which says to me that you think YOU can tell from lot videos how good a drum line is. We can argue those merits all day long. With you being a brass guy, I'm going to say I'm pretty skeptical your ears are at that level, considering most drummers will tell you that Youtube lot videos are a dodgy way to evaluate without seeing it on the move. Are there things to be learned from those videos? Sure. I love watching them to see what lines are doing, see their progress from week to week in terms of development, etc. It tells me precisely nothing about how well they play in the actual show. All of that doesn't even mention the fact that that you can't find a lot of front ensemble videos on youtube, and since they are half the caption, that is a significant issue with that method of evaluation. That being said, the percussion judge isn't paying any attention to characters on the field, or drill design, or brass nuances. They are busy judging the percussion section they are seeing. There are plenty of things going on in modern percussion design that there's not a lot of time to sit back and notice any of the rest of the show design itself. This is particularly true of the field judges, who literally CAN'T judge show design, as they don't have a perspective for that. IF the show design has any bearing on the results (and that's a pretty big if), those effects are marginal at best. You may disagree with the results, and that's fine. But the judges are judging percussion, not show design.

A hitter in batting practice is essentially doing the same thing as he does in a game. Nobody is ever going to ask him to swing a bat while he's running around the field. There is a big difference between playing well in the lot, and playing well on the move with listening environments, body responsibilities, the added physical effort etc.

false pretenses of "proper mallet technique" Your words, not mine. I get your comparison to a "pandora's box", but that's not all that you said. There was nothing false about the motivation behind amplification of front ensemble equipment. If that's not what you meant, then you should word things more carefully. There was nothing wrong with my comprehension.

Yeah, I'm going to stop you there. I generally stay out of this argument, but this one crosses a line. There is no false pretense behind the argument that proper mallet technique is more possible with amplification. Its a fact. You and I are not going to see eye to eye on a lot, and I'm not even going to get into the greater scope of electronics, but this is clearly a topic you know nothing about or you wouldn't make a sweeping accusation like that. You're just incorrect. There's nothing more to it.

I'm not teaching at Bluecoats, so I don't know how they are approaching it, but that would seem like a reasonable way to handle it. My point was just that the idea of "everyone in the front ensemble listens back" is not particularly accurate for a lot of ensembles.

Actually a lot of front ensembles start with a section timing first approach. Center deals with front to back. Everyone else follows the center, to the point of ignoring the backfield. Every ensemble obviously has their own method, but I can't remember the last front ensemble person I've worked with that didn't at least start with that method.

As a guy who teaches a lot of drums, and thus deals with this concept a lot, its about calf strength, and the control of the motion between point and flex in the ankle. when you extend for the step, you point. As you pass through that footfall, you allow some flex to absorb the shock. Its not entirely different from most horn line's backwards technique, just in multiple directions.

I haven't seen any numbers over the years to support that. Rankings all over the place, sure, but large spreads to prove a point? Not so much.

Mathematically about the same, since the visual captions get the same weight as the percussion caption in terms of their portion of the overall score. The difference lies in the fact that the music sheets are so specialized. A great color guard will have a lot of effect on the visual analysis and visual ensemble sheets, whereas percussion has very little effect on the music analysis sheet and zero effect on the brass sheet (reference Crown's ability to win Music analysis consistently the last few years, with a 5th place or lower percussion program). A GE judge is also considerably less likely to notice great vs bad percussion (relatively of course, we're splitting hairs at that level) and allow it to affect his number. Essentially, guard and visual are more integrated into other sheets, and as such, have more pull on the overall result. That's why you're less likely to see a corps with a 5th or 6th place guard winning a championship. Its certainly possible, but much less likely.

That criteria is covered on both the music analysis and the music GE sheets.

An interesting thing to consider: is there a rule that says that the judges currently MUST be out on the field? Its true that there are probably no DCI judges currently participating in this discussion, but I think they seem to answer your question themselves. If they aren't required to get out on the field, then why would they if their ability to adjudicate effectively was the same? Wouldn't they just remain on the track where they are safe? It certainly seems like they feel that they can get the best read from out on the field. I know from my experience teaching in various settings, both drum corps and otherwise, there are things that I can't fix without getting up close and personal in a rep. So, while it is sometimes more difficult to get into the forms safely, I know that its what I have to do to see and hear what I need. When I judge, I feel the same way (although I do not judge DCI).

Look, you're getting upset about something really silly. You did, in fact, use the word "criminal" to describe what you felt to be the inaction of DCI in preventing what you perceive to be inevitable injury. I repurposed that word to poke a hole in your logic, suggesting that by your logic the entire activity could be described as "criminal" since you're more likely to be injured in rehearsal, than by a judge at a show. I get it. You don't like that I did that. Doesn't change the fact that "criminal" is your word. You can get upset, and bluster all you want. Doesn't change the facts. Its just band. Lighten up Francis.

First, they are your words. I simply applied them to a related context. Second, the NFL changed their rules due to an epidemic of injuries related to the rules they changed. There is no such epidemic in DCI, and while there is a potential danger for injury, the facts don't support any significant chance of injury. Odds don't increase over time. Third, you're incorrect in suggesting that extra people on the field is a variable that members don't have to deal with in rehearsal. Have you ever watched a drum corps rehearsal? The staff is all over the field, and there are far more of them than there are judges. While staff do have the advantage of knowing the show, there are always new staff coming on and off tour, and field judges do quite a lot of research to know where to be. Members are used to seeing individuals in their drill that aren't supposed to be there. Again, all drum corps related injuries are preventable. However, you're more likely to be injured in visual block in the morning than you are in a judge related incident on the performance field. While you do not agree that there is a need for judges on the field, there is a significant percentage of those involved in the activity who believe that there is.

Then the entire activity is (in your words) criminal. More injuries occur from simply attempting to do our activity properly than ever occur from a judge on the field. Lets prevent all of the injuries and just cancel the season.

Does it really keep people safe though? How many injuries have we seen through the years due to a judge being on the field? What percentage of injuries in a drum corps season can be attributed to it? I think the real truth of the conversation is: Either you like #7 because you don't want to see anything other than a performer on the field, or you dislike #7 because it prevents captions from being judged properly.

From a percussionist's perspective, there are definitely details and discrepancies in clarity that you can only judge from up close. Once the brass line gets between you and the battery, you can't hear the things that separate battery sections at that level. Having a field level judge is a choice to sacrifice sampling the whole, to get true samples of the micro details. Having the second percussion judge is an attempt to get the big picture sample. Is it safer to have them off the field? Maybe, but the instances of injury related to a judge on the field are pretty nonexistent when you consider how many shows are judged each year with judges on the field (including marching band, etc). Some people find the judges distracting. I don't, and don't know a lot of people who do. As for the reworking of the sheets, I think BOA has this figured out, with music individual judges on the field level, and music ensemble judges in the box. With that in mind, the proposal that eliminates "music analysis" in favor of box and field percussion and brass judges seems to make the most sense in terms of judging the small details that can only be discerned by getting on the field with the performers, and getting the big picture stuff that need space and perspective.

Speaking of nuance... There's a difference between "uniformity" and "unison". Uniformity is a much more flexible term. It can be applied to approach, it can be applied to interpretation, pretty much any musical or visual term you want to pull out, and uniformity can be applied to it in this activity. Unison means a very specific thing, and yes, while certain small sections play in unison often, the entire drum corps playing in unison (or even entire brass lines or battery sections or front ensembles) is a rarity. If there is harmony, then its not unison. If there is rhythmic variation from section to section (large accents in the bass line filled in by 16th notes in the snares for example), then its not unison. So no, drum corps is not a unison activity. There are huge variations in texture, instrumentation, harmonic structure, timbre combinations etc. Why wouldn't we want the visual representation of that music to reflect that?

I'm not even close to a guard expert, but I can tell you that if you're only blown away by unison flag work, you either need to pay more attention to what's being done, or you need a better understanding of what you're seeing. What the performers are pulling off is incredible. And yes, it can be judged, both from a design perspective AND an achievement perspective. This is why experts get paid more money than people like me to do that job.

There is generally someone in charge of the front ensemble, but whether or not they're called a "caption head" or not seems to depend on the corps. The structure I've seen more often is a caption head over the percussion ensemble, and a pair of coordinators for front and battery respectively.

That's also a pretty early episode (as I reveal myself for the total nerd I really am). The series got less rigid as the seasons went on.