bchorn

This lineup order is confusing. The press release for last year's Southwestern Championship lineup included the following blurb. Once seeded in score order, corps were randomly drawn within groups of three (First through third, fourth through sixth, etc.) However, this year's press release doesn't include such a blurb. Did they change the rules for determine lineup order? Plus, on the rankings tab, Blue Devils are currently listed fourth...so shouldn't they be in second to last group of performers? Or is the score average from the entire season used to determine lineup order? Edit: read somewhere else on DCP that scores from just last weekend were used for seeding.

I'm fascinated by the discussion regarding whether Drum Corp costs more today than it did 30-40 years ago. Using the CPI Inflation Calculator I calculated the following multipliers for people to use to determine if drum corp cost more or less back "in the day". Year Multiplier 1975 4.77 1976 4.5 1977 4.21 1978 3.92 1979 3.54 1980 3.09 1981 2.82 1982 2.64 1983 2.57 1984 2.46 1985 2.38 1986 2.33 1987 2.25 1988 2.17 1989 2.06 So if someone paid $700 in 1975 to march in drum corp, that would be $700 * 4.77 = $3339 in today's dollars.

The Mediabox has Blue Devil exclusive content (like warm ups and other behind the scenes stuff) on it. But for actual video and audio performances that is produced by DCI itself, you can only get that content from DCI itself.

A better question would be....why is every non-Blue Devil world champion since 2006 on the most downloaded video performances list but none of 4 Blue Devils world champions???

My frustration is due to the fact that the Blue Devils typically aren't even in my top 5 of entertaining shows of the finals and yet they still place 1st or 2nd. The Blue Devils are my least watched corp on my Disc 1 from last year's World Championships. People will say that's just because I'm a BD hater but in reality I really want to like the Blue Devils. I absolutely hate it when I only watch 5 of the top 6 corps. I still don't get the 1930 show whereas I've watched Carolina Crown and Cadets from that year 10x as much. Whatever they are doing I wish I could get so that I would enjoy them more. Again, I think the disconnect seen in the fan vote from last year DCI Austin reflects this frustration from others as well.

But it's not just me. I've read many other people say the same thing about Blue Devils regarding the last 6-8 year period. Again, if it was just me or few people here or there, then I wouldn't be saying ANYTHING. But I'm hearing this same discontent from a large contingent of people.

This is more than just a dislike of ONE winner. This is dislike of MULTIPLE winners by one corp over a short period of time. In my 25 years of watching drum corp, this has never happened before. Yes, I may have not liked a winner here or there but rarely did I dislike the same top 5 corp year after year. So don't try to spin this as a "people have always disliked the winner since the dawn of time" because I have never experienced this before. So please, don't try to convince me otherwise.

Well, I'm not so sure about Top Corps ALWAYS playing to the sheets but I will say this. I have been watching Drum Corps for 25 years since I was in high school and never have I been as disinterested in the DCI World Champion as I have been the last 4 times when the Blue Devils won. I'm not saying my years of experience makes me a better fan. I'm just pointing it out to show that the Blue Devils are approaching their show design differently from others. If it was just me, then I wouldn't be posting like I have. But when I dig around on drum corp sites, I notice similiar discontent by others. I notice things like BDs getting 7th in the fan vote while the judges place them 3rd. I notice things like only 10% of the audience stays behind for this year's champion versus 50% for last year's champion. Or when I'm walking out of the stadium on finals night all i hear are fans shouting B#######! All these little things tell me I'm not alone in my discontent with the BDs. And here's the really sad part, I WANT to like the Blue Devils. I am a bandwagon fan who has no strong allegiance to any corp. All they have to do is make an entertaining show like Cadets 2011 or Phantom 2008 (the last two non-BD champions) and then I'm on the bandwagon.

Guardling, The World Championship show of 2012 was NOT a wildly popular show. This is the point I've been trying to make this entire time on this thread. I never said that NO ONE liked the World Championship show of 2012. Of course, there are people who liked the World Championship show of 2012 above all others. My concern is that I feel that DCI will suffer if it continues to award a World Championship to a show that is not wildly popular. My point in bringing up the fan vote from DCI Austin last year was to point that the judges like the Blue Devils more than the fans. I'm not saying that no one likes the Blue Devils. I'm just saying that the Blue Devils have a recent history of being more popular with the judges than with the fans. Again, I'm not saying that the Blue Devils are not popular. My concern is that other corps are going to start "playing to the sheets" like the Blue Devils and not care about making wildly popular shows because that's the winning formula the Blue Devils have used the last 6 years to place in the top 2. If 2013 turns out to have more shows like the Blue Devils than Carolina Crown, then I may just give up on drum corp as a whole after 25 years.

If it was just a poor showing by the Blue Devils at this year's encore, I wouldn't be saying anything. But when you combine that with the fact that... * there have been constant criticisms of the show all year long on BD about it not being entertaining * many people saying they prefer Crown's show over BD's show all season long * many people saying they don't like the direction the Blue Devils have gone with show design since the mid-2000's. * the bloggers from the finals said Crown was definitely the crowd favorite. * Blue Devils had an abnormally low fan vote at last year's Austin show. * Blue Devil's show designers admitting they don't care about entertaining the crowds. ...and you'll have a hard time convincing me that the Blue Devil's had as popular a show as Crown this year or the Cadets from last year.

So you are saying that Michael Boo overestimated how many people stayed for the last year's World Championship encore performance but he got it right this year because people just don't watch encores anymore??? Come on...just admit you are in denial that more people liked last year's Cadets show than this year's Blue Devils show. There wasn't nearly the backlash from the Cadets winning last year like there was this year with the Blue Devils.

The %'s I'm referring to are Michael Boo's estimations from the Finals Blog for both years. Here's the link to the 2012 blog. 11:30Michael Boo: Unfortunately, perhaps only 10% of the audience is left in the stands to witness it. Michael Reed from yesterday's Semifinals blog concurs with that figure. 11:30Michael Boo: If anyone wants to get a great seat for the run-through, they can pretty much write their own ticket. Here's the link to the 2011 blog. 11:21Michael Boo: I think at least half the audience is staying on to hear the encore. 11:21Michael Boo: That says a lot. The fans sure didn't seem to be in a rush to get to their car last year. I had a 9am flight the next morning but I certainly would have stayed if Crown had won.

So 2012 increase in attendance has been directly attributed to the Blue Devils? I haven't heard that. Could it be that the higher attendance in 2012 is the result of 2011 having one of the best finals in recent history? The 2011 finals was certainly the reason why I spent $1000 on airfare, lodging, and tickets to my first finals in 20 years this year. Flawed fan voting? I was at that show in Austin (hence the large airfare to finals) and the Blue Devils were a real dud that night. I tried to give them the benefit of the doubt because they were the first corp to perform but then the Cavaliers came in right after BD and ripped the roof off the house (hence the #1 vote). If the voting was so flawed then why did the fan voting practically mirror the judges placements for all but two of the corps? Did the judges get it wrong to for the other 6 corps as well? I have no doubt that BD sells more souvenirs because they have been a perennial power in Drum Corp since their inception. But can you explain to me why only 10% of the finals crowd stayed around to hear the encore performance when the yankees of Drum Corp just won their 15th championship? The year before the Cadets had 50% of the crowd remain and they are probably equal in popularity with the Blue Devils. Could it be that simply a lot more people enjoyed the Cadets last year than they enjoyed the Blue Devils this year?

Haha...I was in section 640 and the crowd definitely was rooting Crown. I'm sure people will say I'm biased but check out the finals blog. 10:10Michael Boo: HUGE audience reaction. The fans are really pulling for this corps, alá Phantom Regiment in 2008. It's like the audience is willing them to win. 10:10Mike Ferlazzo: Every year, there's a people's champ Michael, and even if Crown doesn't win the competitive title, they are clearly the people's champ this season. 10:16Mike Ferlazzo: AMAZING!!!! And the crowd, and Michael, are going nuts!! 10:16Michael Boo: Big standing ovation. 10:17Mike Ferlazzo: Just like in 2008 with Phantom, the crowd is trying to will Crown to victory. There are no similiar comments about the audience during the Blue Devils performance.

I'm not so sure that Blue Devils please plenty of crowds. At the Austin show last year when they had fan voting via text message, the Blue Devils were voted 7th by the fans. Also the rare fan vote highlights what I think why people are frustrated with the Blue Devils. The judges placed BD 3rd while the fans voted BD 7th. The BD had the largest disconnect between judges and fans at this show. Fan Vote Difference 1. Cavaliers 1 0 2. Cadets 2 0 3. Blue Devils 7 4 4. Carolina Crown 3 -1 5. Bluecoats 6 1 6. Phantom 4 -2 7. Santa Clara 8 1 8. Blue Stars 5 -3 Here's something else I noticed. If you look at blog from the finals last year, Boo said that rough 50% of the crowd stayed to watch the Cadets encore performance. However, this year, Boo blogged that only 10% of the crowd to watch the Blue Devils encore performance. That's a huge difference and I guarantee you that if Crown won a lot more than 10% would stayed. I was in the audience and the crowd was definitely rooting for Crown.

No one is asking all corps to play the exact same style. Drum corps have their own styles just like movies have genres like drama, comedy, sci-fi, or fantasy. The Blue Devils have done crowd pleasing championship entertaining shows in the past (2003 for example) so I know they know how to do it. They simply don't care about pleasing the crowds anymore.

All I am implying is what has been said over and over again on DCP throughout this season. The BDs are really good at executing shows that many people don't get or like. The judges like and reward the execution. As far as DCP having a vote, you're right we don't have a vote to determine the champion. But as the topic of this thread indicates, will the BDs victory mean more corps are going to focus on executing shows like BDs that no one likes? If so, fans may begin to cast the ultimate vote and walk away from the activity.

Not sure why people are dinging mikespeed for his comment. I have never said anything about Blue Devils NOT being a strong organization as they obviously know what it takes to win. My respect for them as an organization still doesn't change my opinion of their recent shows.

You're talking about the judges and there's no disputing who the judges liked. I'm talking about the fans in the stands and the loud voices of discontent on DCP. There's considerable debate about who the fans wanted to win this year. I'll also add this debate was mostly absent from last year's contest.

Here's the deal...I would love to see more corps attempt drills like what Carolina Crown did this year but that's not going to happen if clean/average drills are rewarded over challenging/not as clean drills.

The BD/Crown debate is much more than some fans that think their corp should have won. If you look at the DCP archives from last year, you won’t see nearly the amount of fans complaining about the Cadets winning than you do this year. And this debate is also much more than “oh I’m so jealous the Blue Devils have a million championships”. A lot of people have been frustrated with Blue Devils shows since the mid 00’s. People are frustrated that Blue Devils are winning with shows that they don’t enjoy. I never marched with any corp so I’ve always been a bandwagon fan. I jumped on the Cadets bandwagon in the late 80’s when I first started watching drum corp. Then I became a huge fan of the Cavaliers when they started dominating in the early 00’s. So why have I not jumped on the Blue Devils bandwagon even though I loved most of their championship shows up to and include The Phenomenon of Cool? I really do want to like their recent shows…I’ve tried…but they haven’t clicked for me so I’m frustrated…really frustrated when they win over other corps more deserving (CC in 09 and 12 and Cavaliers in 10).

I agree. There would have to be a difficulty component somehow built into the overall score. Maybe that difficulty component is built into each score given by the judge or maybe it's just a separate score given all together for the overall show.

Did anyone watch the Men's High Bar routine at this year's olympics? I think it has interesting parallels with this discussion because the gold medalist won the event despite having alower execution score than the silver medalist. The reason the gold medalist won was because his difficulty score was .4 higher. Difficulty Execution Total Gold 7.9 8.63 16.53 Silver 7.5 8.90 16.40 While the gold medalist had more mistakes, he wasalso performing a much harder routine. If gymnastics was using the DCI system, then the gold medalist would not have been rewarded for performing a harder routine.

No, I'm not naive. I feel this way because I've been watching drum corp for 25 years and never have I been so unsatisfied with a repeat world champion as I have been with the Blue Devils over the last 6 years. Now, I'm not saying my 25 years of drum corp makes me more special or makes my opinion more valid. I'm only sharing it because if i had felt this unsatisified when the Cadets were dominating the 80's or the Cavaliers were dominating the 00's then I would think it's just me not liking the reigning drum corp again. But because I've generally agreed with the judges in the past AND the fact that there is so much consternation from other fans about BDs winning right now, I definitely believe there is some merit to our argument here.

Well, I was at finals night. The crowd was clearly wanting Crown to win. Michael Boo even said that the crowd was trying to will Crown to a win. And after the scores were announced, I probably heard b######t about 5 times as I was walking past random people when leaving the stadium. Also, look at DCP forum archives from last year, there wasn't any angst over the Cadets winning it all last year like there is this year. I know Blue Devil fans think this is about other fans being jealous but that is not the case. The championship winning show doesn't have to be my favorite show of the finals. But it does have to be in my top 5 and the last 4 Blue Devil championship winning shows have been so blah to me. That's why I'm so frustrated with them winning. Edit by MikeD: attempted filter circumvention