Amil Muzz

SCV has proven themselves to be an unreliable business partner. They flaked out on the post-COVID tour and sent a video and through a complete failure to take care of their financial obligations they flaked out last season. They don't seem to get that they are under a big microscope. Many of the ugliest issues that have plagued the activity in recent years, this organization has been the epicenter of a lot of it. The Troopers were tossed from DCI for the same thing that is on going here. They seem to be reluctant to be transparent. They are continuing down the same path that led them here. These aren't opinions, they are facts. Hard facts. The General Membership of DCI has some hard choices to make. Their gross financial malpractice leaves DCI in a bad spot, just like the Troopers prior to their suspension. It is grossly unfair to the organizations who struggled thru COVID to come out the other side. Again, look at Troopers. Pre COVID- very weak, post COVID setting new standards for themselves. SCV has to rebuild trust that they aren't going to flake, AGAIN for the 3rd time. They have a suspect management structure. They don't seem to have learned anything. There is a word for this- HUBRIS. There is one way that ends and it's not good for anyone. Especially the students and families who chose to engage with an organization that's shown to be unresponsive to scrutiny.

Mr. Jones made it a point NOT to put his own money into the corps.

Lots of incorrect info...in fact almost all of it.

My gut reaction to this poll was funding issues. In light of finding out that there are drum corps who have members practicing and performing DESPITE a positive COVID test. I guess the issue that still needs to be addressed is MEMBER SAFETY. After everything that's happened in the past 5 or 6 years, its just gobsmacking that adults would still be that reckless with the health and well being of members. It is beyond disappointing that there are people, "responsible adults" who are so wrapped up in winning at "super band camp" they would risk the health of kids, volunteers, drivers, staff, and the future of the activity (as well as potentially their own future) over a score or placement. I would say it is unbelievable, but sadly it is not.

Hey! That me at the end of the opener! Fun season!

Actually, there has been some discussion on the Crossmen Alumni Facebook group about it. It seems as though the new Director is is being very clear eyed about addressing it amongst the alumni’s concerns. Then this announcement tonight.

I grew up in Casper. Mr. Jones started touring to give kids in Casper the opportunity to travel who would have probably never had that experience. It is ironic.

Right, more kids that CAN afford it. Money, more and more money. Cheap experience? I couldn’t have afforded it, let alone march for 6 seasons. I have heard that argument before, and DONT BUY IT. I am sure there are performers who can’t afford it. That is by far the minority. By. Far. I guess we can agree to disagree. But I watched the change. I was there in the trenches. Where I worked there wasn’t any mercy for kids who couldn’t afford it. Kids who 20 years ago could have done it. That’s a fact, chum. Drum Corps is an activity for the top 10%. I have heard that with my own ears come out of the face of a prominent person, very prominent in DCI’s leadership. That’s what drum corps is now. FACT. By design. I also heard the same person say “That’s what SoundSport is for, for kid who can’t afford the World Class experience.” Drum Corps used to be exclusive to those who had the grit to do it. Now, to those who can afford it. Sorry, that’s the way it is, again, by design.

The “inclusion” rap is laughable. The sheer cost makes the experience unreachable for way too many. Inclusion? Look for ways to reach more kids who can’t afford $5,000 for a summer. Just the economics of it makes Drum Corps exclusionary by class.

I think that extremely well stated.

Maybe all time... The best teachers I have EVER SEEN are Middle School teachers. Period. Fact. No credible argument can be made unless you are galactically ignorant. I guess that’s how some judge quality teachers. What grade they teach. Stupid. Dazzlingly stupid.

So is Jim Prime

Don, I am sorry you are having to defend yourself in this forum. This kind of thing represents the worst side of this Forum. People who, anonymously for the most part, spread half-truths, idle gossip, and dirty laundry here. People who think they know something and mostly don't. As Don said in an earlier post; these are real people you are talking about. A good friend of mine described drum corps as "Politics for Peanuts." Outside of the 10-12 people who can actually support themselves through this activity, the rest of us do it out of love for the activity, an honest desire to give young people the best possible experience doing something that is incredibly difficult mentally, physically, and spiritually. That applies to staff people as well. It really sucks that people can be so thoughtless and reckless. For the meager wages that DC pays, you too can have your reputation damaged, have a bunch of dilettantes say really nasty things, and call for your public firing. The people who do this go into it with the best of intentions. In 34 years of doing this, its my observation that very rarely the case that people do it for any other reason than the love of it, period. Sometimes things work out great sometimes they don't. That's life. When people put themselves out there and enter the arena its always a gamble. That's the nature of what this is. Its unfortunate that people who post stuff with qualifiers like, "I heard....", "Someone told me....", etc. are allowed to do so. People who teach drum corps are mostly poorly paid public educators and teach because its their passion. People who teach drum corps sacrifice a great deal to follow their passion. Believe me, the price tag is high on every possible level. With the advent of forums like this, part of the price tag is to have people "who heard" or think they have some juicy gossip say, publicly, some really awful things. Part of the price tag is to deal, on the road, with things that are said here. It's seriously the ugliest and most unpleasant part of this activity. It's a real shame. For the people who so easily call for people's public firing and shaming; I hope it happens to you. You deserve to know what that feels like. J. Buckingham

I am just going to limit my comments to the management style. It was a very "Political" management style. There were two kinds of people, "The people who were there, and the people who heard about it." Conversations that were had on the bus were reported to management. It was like a twisted game of telephone. People were set against each other, purposefully. I don't know who EXACTLY was doing this but, it was the management style. Some relationships recovered some have not. A great friend of mine told me," if you can get through a summer with the same friends you came in with, it been a good summer." I found this to be very true. So in that context, the logic of "this is my decision, and that's that." Makes sense. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. As a person, I think Fred is more than a decent man. I do. I think he made a decision that was naive initially. The repeated decision to ignore people when they did have issues with it, I don't want to characterize. I have my opinion about it, but my opinion about it makes no real difference. We are where we are. As I said, I felt it was a huge risk and an exposure to bad PR for the Corps and the Activity writ large was, again, "UNWARRANTED." As far as motivations driving it? I don't know and I don't think it matters. The only thing that matters is getting it right. That means acknowledging some less than pleasant things and making the prerequisite changes. My worry with Drum Corps is it is so EGO driven for some people. I think having a Chairman of the BoD of DCI who is not concerned with placements, scores, "advantage seeking" and is truly an Independent voice is long over due. One of two things will happen. Things will begin to get fixed, or, she will not be listened to and she will resign and we are back to square one.

That is what I (we) interpreted that to mean, yes.

The thing I think the YEA situation and this situation have in common is competent Board over sight. YEAs Board, it seems, were enablers and blind supporters of the Executive Director. In this second case, there really is no Board Oversight. The Board are the owners/buyers of the Crossmen, a recent age out, and one other person. This is an issue with many drum corps and an area that needs to be addressed. DCI does have the authority to get into internal Day to Day business. I worked for a drum corps who’s board couldn’t meet regularly because Board Members simply would not come to meetings. I worked for another drum corps who’s Board Members, when called about totally unsafe conditions with Transportation and Food Safety would get ###### that they were being called. It’s like Congress now days, when that Check is not operating or non existent, what do you do? Who do you talk to? Who’s responsible? If Board Members aren’t engaged, If Board Members are ignorant of things that they are responsible to oversee, If Board Members aren’t aware of Policies that are being implemented; what do you? It’s hard to fix ignorance, especially if it’s willful ignorance. I have seen plenty of that. I hope those individuals are good D&O Insurance. I hope they have a strong firewall protecting their assets. Drum Corps have stop being amateur hour organizations and look at the realities of the World today and take more seriously the potential and very real perils of taking 154 kids and 20-30 adults and travel the way we do. With a serious board oversight the YEA situation would not have developed the way it did in the end. With serious oversight chances are the Crossmen situation wouldn’t have happened. It’s a systemic issue. It’s not a DCI issue, per se. I think this thread has been a pretty good demonstration of some of the approaches to oversight don’t work. The dismissive attitudes towards professional people who have to get a State Issued credential and maintain it and who because of that State Credential are BOUND BY LAW to report issues is beyond stupid. But that attitude has been on display here. For All To See. The excuse of “no one reported it” doesn’t fly IF THERE IS NO ONE TO GO TO or worse they didn’t think they would be listened to. That’s the nut of all of this; powerlessness. Whether it’s a man using his authority to take advantage of someone in unspeakable ways or a situation where decisions aren’t questioned because no one is there to effectively challenge questionable judgements giant, ugly, messy, problems inevitably follow.

I have been watching this thread since the article came out. I feel like I need to clarify some things. My name is Jason Buckingham and I am the staff person quoted in the article. Let me state a couple things clearly. 1. I have no first hand knowledge of ANY issues with Joel during his time at the Crossmen. As far as I know, nothing happened there in my time. 2. When it came to speaking to Mgt. about concerns with the situation staff members (2012) were told "it was none of our business and you can leave if its a problem for you." 3. I said it was an "unwarranted risk." To be clear, not that at I was fearful that something would happen, although it was a possibility, rather I was more worried about THIS. WHAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW. I knew at some point there would come a time when it would become an issue. I had no idea it would be 6 six years later. There was no PRESUMPTION OF OUR CONCERNS being ignored. They were. In a rather heavy handed way. Ignored, perhaps is not the right description. Dismissed would be more precise. My first year teaching I suspected the Corps Director of doing some really ugly things with kids. I had some circumstantial evidence. I went to Board members about it and was....dismissed. 10 years later in 2000 he was sentenced to 10 years in prison for exactly the kind of thing I suspected in 1990. This is a sore subject for me. Besides that experience coloring my worldview; when Ms. Nadolney called me (I did not call her), I had a choice to make. Not a real easy nor fun choice. But I did choose to talk to her. The kind of stuff has been lurking in the dark corners of this activity for FAAAAR to long. My choice to speak with her was has someone who's spent 30 years in this activity and a concerned stakeholder. I did not know what Ms. Nadolney would come up with in her reporting, but I knew I could not look myself in the mirror if she came forward with something awful. I felt it important to have ON THE RECORD that there were people who came forward and expressed concerns, early on. This situation wasn't the dealkiller, but as I stated it was apart of a situation I had no desire to continue be be a part. So I took the advise Mgt., gave I resigned. UNWARRENTED CONCERNS? You sure? The issue of transparency has come up a number of times. Exactly right! I can tell you members knew because it was a Google search away. How do you think those members perceived management as far as reporting things, when it was clear, they were totally fine with that situation? Think it might have colored that decision? Here's the bottom line beside a PR mess, and potential whatever; When adults make adult problems, a kid's problem, that's a complete failure of trust. Period. End of story. Clear enough? This was a situation that was absolutely going to become a problem at some point. And here we ####### are aren't we. Unwarranted??? You don't know what you are talking about sir.

Yes and thanks for the kind words! I am beyond thrilled to be working with Chuck again. Especially with this Corps.

http://www.genesisdbc.org/staff-directory.html

I have observed with a larger group people tend to retreat into smaller groups. Again, the maturity level of the group plays a huge factor.

This is not meant to be a blanket statement, but... Socially, I have noticed a difference in 150 members corps to 128 member corps. The maturity of the group plays into it as well. Just an observation from teaching both. That would be an interesting sociological experiment, if it hasn't been done already.

Aw man...after a 20 year career I get some props for the "daredevil" corps choices I have made. Bummer...the peer thing is kind of harsh. I my defense; to my knowledge "lots of people" haven't been with teams who went from out of the Top 12 to in, in 2 years or less not once, not twice, but thrice. I don't think anyone has done that, except for my team and I. Almost a fourth time with Colts (again) the last couple of seasons. I got defend my brass team's record, right? I did march Star of Indiana, so I guess that qualifies me as a "Star", haha.

Crossmen 2012

Audition Weekend #1: November 21-23, 2013 in Dubuque, Iowa