totaleefree

I dont think it was facebook that has killed this. It was mainly mean people. One big thing that has really hurt is that most corps don't want their members to post. I have to agree with some of the corps directors after seeing how some posts have been responded too. I remember a poster saying that their caption head was not at a weekend camp then there were 5 pages of replies accusing the staff member of all kinds of stuff most with no backing. Another time a marcher commented that he had lost some weight and there were 5 pages of people making fun of overweight people (people shuld be glad for someone doing something constructive and losing weight). Seeing those responses if I were a Corps director I would tell my folks to never post on here. Probably the people who make the rude comments are no longer on here, but that rep has hurt the sight at least to corps staffs. I don't think people stopped posting because of facebook.

Not having seen any shows yet I don't think Cavies will fall. I didn't see their show last year, but 2014 they were looking up and seemed to have a good future, Last year they were hit with a virus 2 weeks before finals and in my opinion that made them lose momentum and I still don't think they were back up to par for finals. I mised seeing them at ATL because of that virus so I couldn't give them good mojo to finish up the season last year.

Didn't some shows in past days have afternoon prelims, finals at night ? Also a parade in the morning to pass out flyers and make people aware of the evening show. I really don't think that today there is a large enough interest to get two groups in to watch a show. Most of the crowd are former marchers, involved with marching band, have an interest in the sponsor (ie JCs, Legion, school boosters) or friends family and coworkers of MMs. I think the folks that are going to come are going to come but I really don't see a crowd of new fans coming because the show is early. However I was wrong once(back in 4th grade).

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They also were active on DCP, made reading the forums interesting, while there was a lot of pointless hype involved it also gave folks some insight and a reason to want to see if what they were posting was true. Most of DCA today refrains from having members post (and there are some good reasons for that) but it is less fun and harder for people away from the action to have any reason to be interested.

Third Coast, I am happy for you and your crew trying to bring some fresh blood to DCA. I may be missing something here but it seems like other people want to crush you before you even get started. This is why DCA seems to be losing ground and why these message boards are getting sparsely populated. I hate to be mr happy happy only postive but I think you were slammed pretty harsly here

I recieved info that made this post no longer necessary

Southern Knights an all ages weekends only corps from Alabama passed their DCI evaluation and will be able to get judged at DCI shows in the south. I have no idea how DCI evaluates a DCA corps or how that compares with a DCI open class corps, but it is good news that corps are passing DCI evaluations.

Having an actual MM commenting ruins half the fun of making wild guesses and interesting far flung irrelevant references to back in the day.

I know some people do both and that a lot of people would like to do both but it can get pretty expensive (except for school backed groups) and very time consuming, doing indoor then a DCI corps. I have spoken to several parents who give their child the option of one or the other, and I also hear he is going to do indoor this year, but next summer he will do DCI. I am not sure how often the whole 2 year plan is followed through on.

I remember going to Hershey in 75 or 76 when I was ten years old and seeing Phoenix. i was 10 years old but I remember my Dad saying who are these guys and he knew all the corps who had been around in the 60's . Apparently in those days new corps didn't just pop up and especially not at the Hershey shows. I think I saw Empire at an ICA championship in Baltimore a few years later and remembered then for not wearing hats (this must have been their first year that is the only reason that I can imagine that they were at ICA)

In the past couple of years I have only been to 1 WGI and 1 indoor percussion show. The crowd at both was almost all parents or alums of the groups performing. Also the venues were small One had about a thousand the other maybe double that. I do not think than an indoor circuit would get anything close to the crowds that DCI gets. Large indoor venues would be hard to find and I imagine very expensive. At DCI world class shows that have attended recently probably half the crowd or more has been high school band students and I would say probably 5k on weeknight shows and probably double that on the weekend TOC shows and close to 20k at the Georgia dome. So I think that DCI reaches a much wider audience and is not about to be diminished by indoor Marching Arts groups. However I do think that the indoor work compliments the DCI shows. Also WGI has a huge scholastic component, if DCI followed that formula you would have high school bands and college bands in different classes but performing in the same line up. That is probably one of WGI keys to success, I can enjoy a band exhibition while scores are being tallied, but I really don't want to see that at a DCI show.

Crown did a Japan tour 2 years ago and resized their show for an indoor venue. I did not see the indoor show live, but I probably liked it on the video better than the summer field show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGxfaAh_r9g

"Most performance ensembles obtain the necessary licenses; however, there are some ensembles and organizations which refuse to do so. The abuse of the system by these groups for illicit financial gain has been shocking. There are large enterprises with ensembles that travel all over the country performing at both nonprofit and for-profit events. They pay enormous sums of money for choreographers, arrangers, contest entry, lighting, costumes, props and a host of other outside services. Despite having budgets of more than $500,000/year and generating surpluses of over $150,000/year, these organizations refuse to get the licenses they need and compensate songwriters for their songs." I believe that DCI in its marketing creates this impression that the corps are well funded profitable enterprises. In order to show how much better marching a corps is than high school or college marching band. They advertise to parents that they have the best instructors and best arrangers . On this site every year there are one or two threads where someone says that instead of becoming a school music instructor making 35k a year they are going to be drill writer or corps arranger because they heard that some arranger somewhere in the mid-west made 200k last year just writing drill and arrangements for marching band and drum Corps. They also hear somewhere that corps staff members make six figure pay. (While a few of the top corps directors may do that the vast majority of corps are run largely by volunteers) Some people at Tresona and other publishing and intellectual property protection agencies hear and believes these myths and think that there is a big pot of gold somewhere in the drum corps world, If all the staffers make 6 figures they can spare more for the original rights holders.

On the Male Only corps discrimination question I think that on the same basis one could ask why can a corps like Phantom have an all female guard. My quick assessment would be that there are other opportunities to march guard with other corps so a male wanting to join Phantom's guard would not be able to claim discrimination. The same exists for the all male corps. Opportunities to play the same instrument on a similar tour at a similar level of competence exist so that woman denied a spot with Cavies or Scouts is not being denied a right. A more interesting question would be if a marcher with the all male corps marched one season presenting himself as male, however during the offseason she decided to express herself as female and wanted to come back and march another season. The current psychology would say that she was transgender in her first season even though she was presenting as male so while it is the same person only the gender expression has changed.

Boycotting or cancelling Drum Corps events in North Carolina because of a perceived change in laws is pretty silly in my opinion. Taking revenue away from Crown would not help anyone and would in no way effect the lawmakers who passed the law. It could make it more expensive for the people the boycotters claim to be helping to march. It would also deny them opportunities to perform in front of their local supporters. I know the NC DCA corps actually has participated in several Charlotte Pride events and is very inclusive for all of its members. Boycotting their show would do nothing to help undo whatever perceived wrongs may be done to their members by the overturning the Charlotte law. This whole issue is a purely political since the gay marriage issue has become quiet organizations on both sides need something to rail about so that lobbyists can keep their jobs. When the issue is not in the headlines donations drop and people lose their jobs. So now organizations on both sides can claim they are protecting people and justify their organizations continued existence.

I guess it wasn't that simple, maybe the lawyers actually do earn their money sorting through all this stuff.

This is from Wikipedia on the class structure of WGI WGI classifies color guards into two divisions: Scholastic and Independent. Scholastic guards are made up of members from the same high school. University guards are classified in Independent Class. Independent guards often do not associate themselves with any one school, university units being the exception. WGI goes on to divide these two divisions even further into classes. There are three classes in each division: A Class, Open Class, and World Class. A Class is for beginner to intermediate level ensembles. Open Class is for those better than A Class, World Class is the highest, reserved for experienced and superior color guards. Independent World Class is the only class with no age restrictions. Performers in the Open class age out at the age of 25 and performers in A class "age-out" at 22 years old, and can no longer compete in those classes after their twenty-third birthday twenty-six birthday, but may continue performing with the Independent World Class. Any guard from outside the United States do not have to abide by the age restrictions for A and Open Classes.

Back in the day (80's and 90's) when you peformed and wrote music you just had to deal with ASCAP or BMI they told you what to pay for licenses and made sure you got a cut from folks playing your stuff. I guess the video age has made everthing more complex.

I wish them the best of luck in Open Class. However I think some of us will miss seeing the little corps that could. They set the standard for Class A for many years. Maybe they will set new standards in Open Class. Hopefully a new corps will step up and replace the Govies setting an example for what a class A corps can be.

Maybe I am out of the loop on this but I don't see the gloom and doom that is being expressed on these two threads. Maybe attendance at the championship is not setting records, but that is just one weekend of a 10 to 12 week season. Most of the corps members know from the first camp that they are going to pay $150 -200 to show their stuff against their peers at the end of the summer. I am sure they would love a full house for that show, but a few empty seats isn't going to stop them from going all out and putting on the best show possible. I don't know the full history of the event, but I doubt that the championship weekend has ever been a moneymaker for any of corps. In a softball league you may win your local championship, then find out you need to raise 10k (as a team ) to go to the National Pipefitters Softball championship. And once there you will play in front of 100 people if you are lucky. I believe a lot of the corps members see the championship as a similar thing. Where attendance counts is at the local corps sponsored shows and at camp weekends and from the reports I have heard these are doing well. No they are not making enough from a show to cover the years expenses, but people from the communities are showing up to see them. From reports I saw several shows in Jersey had good crowds, the buccaneers show was successful enough that they sponsored 2 shows last year. Corps in the South sponsored shows And I don't know if they made big profits, but none of wound up folding the corps because of the lack of local support. I went to DCA finals in 2000 or 2001 and then only the top 5 open class corps had more than 80 members, The Buccaneers had only 30 horns and came in 2nd or 3rd place. Knowing that 2 of the top 5 from that year wouldn't be around in 15 years you would have thought the activity was doomed then. However this year all the open class corps had more than 80 members most more than 100 and 3 full sized corps failed to make finals, While the number of members doesn't make a corps necessarily good that at least 13 corps can recruit large numbers shows that the activity is not dying. If you live in upstate NY you may think that the end of Bingo money meant the end of DCA, while Crusaders, Brigadiers and Empire statesmen had a tough time adapting to a bingo free environment White Sabers stepped up and has kept a competitive possible contender in NY.

While I hate to see a corps fall by the wayside I can appreciate wanting to see see it as a good solid large corps. I can remember seeing one of the first alumni corps come out their first year or 2 with 70 horns lots of excitement playing the old arrangements that I had grown up with. I loved the first show of theirs I saw. Several years later they did an exhibition at another show. They had 20 horns and did a standstill, While it was the same arrangements and the players gave it an effort it was not the same and unfortunately I remember the not so good final time I saw them. I think it is best to go out strong so that is what folks remember.

I am glad to see this. I was thinking about starting a thread on why we havn't seen anything about upcoming DCA evaluations. Hopefully we will hear from the Florida group or groups soon to see how DCA South will be shaping up this year.

They are interviewing the 2 marchers from England on the Drum Corps Europe championship feed. They don't sound angry at all and seems that it turned out to be a good summer after all.

I had thought that last year, when 2 top 10 corps were from ATL. and there is also a DCI Corp in town so there might be a sizable crowd to be attracted. Not sure how many alumni Corps would make a trek like that though. Hopefully next summer instead of 3 corps doing the DCA south thing there should be a Florida corps back in the mix and possibly another Corps so it could be $10 for 5 Corps. As for comparing the Winston Salem debacle of 11 years ago to championships that was a mid season contest with maybe 6 corps, and the host Corps had only been around maybe 4 years plus the weather was horrible. In the past 11 years a lot more folks in the south have been introduced to DCA. In 1999 or 2000 Crown had a free show in Columbia SC and Corpsvets did an exhibition, No one down there had ever seen a Corps with older folks in it. Now every year 20k folks (actually maybe 10k that early) get to see Corps at DCI ATL, and as Dan noted their booth is flooded with folks asking about DCA and how weekend Corps work. So I think DCA actually has a much better shot in South now than it did 11 years ago. However as many people have said many times someone has to take the time and some risk to put together a bid and prove it to DCA.