Tim K

It’s been suggested quite a few times and has been rejected on these pages and my understanding is by some corps. Now, the fact that a very successful person in the business world known to many in the drum corps community personally and others by name, not quite Bill Cook successful but is quite accomplished and is highly regarded for his civic involvement, has made this suggestion many times and it has been rejected. This leads me to believe the idea has merit but corps are so competitive, working collaboratively is viewed as giving up control. Working together to cut costs is something every corps knows is a great idea, and they love the cutting costs aspect, it’s the working together that is the challenge. Sometimes it requires baby steps or perhaps a few corps working together for change to take place. A new director facilitating endeavors such as this would be great.

I had heard some scuttlebutt regarding Cavies that fall, though I probably didn’t give it too much thought and if I look back on predictions for 2012, I would probably not had them lower than 5th. Now if you told me in September of 2011 that in the upcoming years the highest Cadets would place is 3rd, they would nearly implode, place as low as 9th, then begin to rise again, I would have disagreed and predicted at least another title during that time.

I’m not expecting Blue Devils to have a down cycle any time soon, though that’s not to say they will win next year. Though it’s back a ways, Blue Devils did have some 4th and 5th place finishes. What is true about a blue Devils in 1976 when they won their first title to today is they understand how judging works. In 1976, being clean is what mattered and if you watch that show, it is precise and exact. Today it’s about design and they know it.

Your words are so true about band directors, or at least the ones I know. Yesterday I was at “The Big E” which is New England’s largest fair. There is a Mardi Gras style parade and yesterday’s featured the Budweiser Clydesdales and a local hitch the Hallamore Clydesdales and four high school bands. One band is a local champion, one a rising group from an urban school with little support from the school district, and two smaller groups that had heart even though they were not the size of the other two. I know one director (so do some of you who follow DCP, I know of another. Two I do not know. In each group you could see the leaders, some trying their best, and all sorts in between. Because it was not a competition, you just enjoyed the groups that helped make up the atmosphere and I was reminded of my younger self and how in so many schools the band is the catch all group. The band director in many schools has to bring together a group that includes the best snd brightest, someone looking for a place to belong, and everyone else in the high school pecking order. Band directors often play a critical role and as we know, can be the first eliminated when the budget needs to be cut. I probably would not have given all this much thought but shortly after the parade finished, I received a news alert on my phone which told of the accident.

That could be true, and I recall these threads in years past. But if I remember correctly, there were quite a few comments that many of these same folks would not have made the cut of their non-dream corps. Now this would have been back in the days when some of our more colorful “call ‘’em as I see ‘em” members were in their glory. I do remember a thread years back where a young person who marched with a corps they loved that had a good reputation for being close knit, I think it was The Academy though it may have been Jersey Surf, asked for opinions about marching with a corps expected to make finals for their age out year. This young man or woman got clobbered. I don’t recall responding, but I probably thought “march the final year with the corps you love rather than audition elsewhere.” Today with the expense of marching, add inflation and some young people trying to cut expenses to avoid future student loan debt, not marching if you don’t make your dream corps makes sense. To get back to Santa Clara, there could be some potential members who want to audition not because of the glorious past or the potential staff of the corps, but the desire to be part of the corps in its rebuilding stage. For a graduate with a music education degree, being part of a rebuilding effort could be a plus on a résumé. As people who have applied for teaching positions can tell you, how you spent your summers in your younger years can be a huge plus in getting hired.

I have no idea of what Dan Acheson makes right now, but given DCI’s budget and the responsibilities I would guess the salary of a new director would be between $300K and $450K. To put it in perspective, the average salary of a high school principal in Indianapolis is $129K, the average salary of a college president in Indiana is $300K according to a quick Google search.

Personally I thought the tribute Dan Acheson received at finals was well done and well deserved. At the time he was hired DCI faced many challenges and its survival was questionable. When drum corps folded in the late 70’s to 80’s, many of the corps had seen better days, music instruction in schools had improved, and there was a wider variety of sports and youth activities available. The decrease in corps was understandable. When it continued in the 90’s and newer corps were few and far between, I really thought the end was near and when attendance at shows kept decreasing, I was certain the end was near. I am very happy to say I was wrong. In a very 90’s/early 2000’s leadership manner, Dan Acheson got the activity on solid footing. He could be very diplomatic and handled the tumult of the G7 threats well or so it appeared to me. That being said, how more recent challenges were handled was problematic, namely safety issues and abuse issues. Perhaps if he had more authority things would have been different. The person selected will be important and there are excellent people out there, some who have been named in this thread and other threads, some not. I do think moving forward that we need to look at the job description. The director needs to have more teeth especially when the unforeseen situations arise. There were times Dan A should have taken more decisive action, but there were also times where it seemed his hands were tied. In an activity that is competitive and where quite often each corps looks out for its own interests first, the director’s position needs more authority but without becoming a dictator.

I’m not sure they will make the Top 4 though I wouldn’t bet against it. I did not expect a 6th place finish this time last year, but I did expect higher placement. In 2021 it seemed as if Mandarins had a game plan for the future and were experimenting a bit for 2022. While placement did not improve in 2022 from 2019, we did see something new. 2023 built in the good work of 2022. I assumed 8th was where they would end up.

If souvenir booth scuttlebutt is an indicator, word from a BAC cashier is that the three corps that had the most inquiries about auditioning for next year are BAC, Troopers, and Mandarins. I’m sure this is speculative and I have no idea of how it is measured, other corps may disagree, and every kid who is under the age of 21 who attends Indy and probably Allentown, San Antonio, and Atlanta/NightBEAT wants to march even though not all will even formally inquire speak less of audition. That being said, I think it’s safe to say Mandarins auditions will not be ghost towns.

He was a great showman in all the right ways on the field and if you caught up with him at a show he was a friendly guy too. He also won the Jim Jones Award for his DM and leadership skills, especially meaningful since he was a Trooper.

In 2021 when the shows were not judged, we did get to see every corps on all three days. However, we also saw similar attendance patterns from the judged years. Crowds were minimal as the shows began and grew as the days went on. If you’re at prelims at the start, attendance is sparse. I’ve heard the numbers are as low as 200 ticketed attendees. As the day continues the attendance builds. At semi’s the early numbers are better, but not overwhelmingly better. This happens in judged years and it happened at the exhibition year too. Though I would most likely attend, I’m not sure there would be enough of an audience to warrant it, not to mention problems with competing with the SoundSport DrumLine Battle audience and stadium availability on Saturday with DCI All-Age. Another consideration is Open Class departures. Some OC corps leave as soon after finishing their prelims performance.

I believe that last year, Spirit was scheduled for shows in 2023 prior to their membership being approved. I heard last summer that DCI wants to keep roughly the same number of shows but wants the rosters to be larger. They also want to see some all age corps in some of the shows which would impact OC shows since WC has San Antonio and Atlanta/NightBEAT on two of the weekends and the Northeast corps would probably not make the trip to those locales. I would think including SCV in the mix would make scheduling easier but it’s not a guarantee of participation.

I would think they will get members, and members talented enough to make the top 12. That being said, I don’t expect them to pick up where they left off. SCV last made the top three in 2019 and it was not a solid third place finish. Crown was nipping at their heels and I thought they deserved to medal. In 2022 they placed fifth, well behind the top four. Though they have amazing staff lined up, they may discover that at least for this year they are not a destination corps. BD will still be the one to beat, Bloo will continue to be the fun corps, Crown will still have that brass and momentum from last year, BAC wants to be the giant (pun intended) and has no intention of slowing down, Mandarins will be of interest, Cadets, Cavies, and Phantom will have appeal, and Troopers may ascend. I would think attracting vets from 2022 who are still able to march will be critical, but if they’ve found a home elsewhere, will they want to leave?

It already happens. This past year and in 2019, Spartans’ encore was at semi’s not finals. I believe SCVC also had an encore at semi’s in 2022 though they could have performed prior to finals. I was outside at the time waiting to get in so I wouldn’t know!

As I’ve been reading some of the comments and giving them some thought, I would wonder if DCI All Age could be split over two days. Semi’s on Friday does not begin until 1 PM. Why not have the All Age prelims on Friday morning? SoundSport and DrumLine Battle would still have Saturday morning. All Age finals would be Saturday afternoon. It would be a tight schedule, but it wouldn’t split the audience.

Facebook posts produced by a corps are usually positive and that’s how it should be since corps use it for publicity, but it seems as if every year we see positive FB posts by a corps during the off season and learn that the winter was difficult for a corps and in some cases, there were questions as to whether the corps would compete.

I can recall hearing at the first SoundSport in 2013 how SoundSport had such great potential to give groups hoping to compete in Open Class and one day World Class the opportunity to grow. To the best of my knowledge only Guardians has gone from SoundSport to Open Class competition. Certainly SoundSport has grown from its first foray on the steps of Lucas Oil’s South entrance to a well organized and enjoyable event, but not one that’s completely drum corps. Don’t get me wrong, one of the most heartwarming performances I have seen in Indy was the multigenerational Chinese family playing traditional Chinese string and percussion instruments with a little one, probably about five or six assisting an older man, probably a great grandfather who had to be well in his 80’s. The Latin American dance troupe and musicians were riveting and talented. The alumni groups still have it, and while it’s entertaining and a great way to spend the Saturday morning, you can’t say it grows drum corps.

True, but I don’t think most people who attend SoundSport and DrumLine Battle who also attend Prelims, Semi’s, or Finals attend the two events because they are free. The years I go I’d be willing to pay for a ticket if there was a fee.

Perhaps this has been posted and I’ve missed it, but with DCI All Age taking center stage at Lucas Oil during the day on Saturday, will there still be a SoundSport and DrumLine Battle? My thought is a large number of DCA fans will not make the trip to Indy with the exception of those who already do, and if the two events are held at the same time, one event could easily take the audience of the other event. Any thoughts or answers?

I don’t think the numbers were huge. In 2015, Blue Devils performed at Tanglewood in Lenox, MA with Boston Crusaders. I went and spoke with some Blue Devils folks at intermission. At the time BD wanted to be less of a one and done ring destination for marching members. I don’t know if it happened though it looks as if the number of age outs is less than in the past. Their claim was that young people who went from C to B had a good shot at making Blue Devils and that the three corps shared a similar philosophy, values, and training methods though geared to the age and skill level of each corps. They mentioned SCV and SCVC as being two very different corps and most kids did not move from SCVC to SCV. It was a casual conversation so no numbers were given, and it may have been one rival pointing out flaws in another (not that it ever happens in drum corps), but while SCV probably recruited talent from SCVC, I don’t think it was a feeder corps.

I saw quite a few people wearing Santa Clara Vanguard coats at the airport in Indy which started an interesting conversation with a friend. Both of us remembered conversations last summer about Spirit not fielding a corps in 2022 but very little was said about SVC’s absence this past year. Other than who would fill the spot left vacant by SCV, and some talk about Mandarins benefiting from their hiatus, something Mandarins folks didn’t wholeheartedly endorse, I heard next to nothing and my friend who is more on top what’s happening said the same. Personally I at least expected talk about where SCV might have potentially placed, whether they’d come roaring back in 2024, or maybe staff movement if there is not to be a 2024. I’d love to see SCV return, but as others have said, it’s unlikely. I’m also not sure you’d see SCV regain its status if it did return. I personally don’t see any of the top 4 of 2023 who were also the top 4 in 2022 losing ground next year. Mandarins has real momentum, Cadets and Phantom have great potential, Cavies has probably learned a thing or two, Troopers and Colts have fire in their bellies. I just don’t see SCV getting its act together for next year, I don’t expect an immediate return to the top 5, and the longer they are away, the less of a destination corps they will be. I would love to be proven wrong. I didn’t expect Spirit to Cascades to return, and am more than happy to admit I was wrong, but while SCV has a much richer legacy than most corps, it also has huge problems that may not be able to be solved, and this thread is reinforcing my doubts about an SCV return.

I thought when trombones, concert French Horns, and Sousaphones were allowed, woodwinds would not be far behind. That hasn’t happened. I’m not sure it will. It has been said that when DCI had a drill team division, there was some consideration given to a band division. This would have been the earliest days of DCI. There were two drill team competitions and the band was probably only talk. Though a band division is not the same as allowing woodwinds in drum corps, since allowing three valved B-flat brass instruments, the woodwind prediction comes alive, it gets considered, and never happens. Personally I believe most corps are more interested in technology and design and adding woodwinds is not a priority. I could see woodwind solos as we have seen with violins, cellos, and this past year a harmonica which is a reed instrument. That’s as much as we’ll see. As I said in response to another post, adding woodwinds would not mean a significant increase in revenue. The numbers of marching members would be the same and I do not think a significant number of people boycott DCI because it excludes woodwinds, especially where so many think of drum corps as bands anyway.

When the BluRays and DVD’s were available in November which would have been prior to 2014, I was told by the young man selling the product that a huge chunk of the sales each year were at BOA Grand Nationals. I don’t know what huge meant in terms of percentage of sales is concerned, but my understanding is it was significant. I know many people who sit in my block never miss Grand Nationals, and it’s a pretty traditional drum corps crowd. I think for many drum corps fans, many attend high school band competitions and WGI and lots of high school band fans attend DCI. We could lose people at shows if woodwinds are added, but I don’t think we would see a sizable increase in attendance if woodwinds are allowed. They’re already attending. Band circuits are not as popular where I live (Massachusetts) as in the South and Midwest, maybe it’s different, but I’ve never heard anyone say they do not attend DCI because woodwinds are not allowed, jt as a one time clarinet player, I never wanted woodwinds in drum corps.

Nine times, if you include 2021 ten. Though 1994 was not my favorite finals, as great as it was on that hot, humid, murky night, 27th’s “Once More in 94” was probably my favorite finals moment. There was lots of excitement in 2013 when Crown won and 2016 when Academy made finals, BAC squeezed in and Bloo won. 2012 was the first year I was able to attend everything from beginning to end with Blue Saints bring the first corps to compete and Blue Devils the last performing corps in finals (usually beginning with Saints and ending with Devils in not a good thing, it should be the other way around, the exception being drum corps🙂). There was also the parade at that time, but for me that finals was a favorite because I experienced it all. 2021 was not judged, but it still felt like finals to me and after the year 2020 was and most of 2021, it was what we needed. I usually like the dust to settle a bit so it may be too early to say 2023, but with the quality, excitement, and variety, 2023 will be at the top of my future lists.

I seem to recall Phantom feeling the draw hurt them and the spread between 6 and 5 is greater in finals than semi’s, but a quick look on DCX shows that while they placed ahead of Cavaliers once and Madison once, in their meetings with any of the top five, they usually placed behind Blue Devils, Madison, SCV, Cavies, and Cadets.