AlexL
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Posts posted by AlexL
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11 minutes ago, musicteacher said:
DBC's referring to DCI as "summer marching band" is certainly pejorative and, at least to this reader, offensive.
In terms of the product being delivered to an audience? It is much more than that.
In terms of the product being sold to a prospective member? That's at least 70% of what it is.
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3 hours ago, ContraFart said:
Does a regional tour, say in the southeast actually save gas? The distance between Genesis and Crown is longer than Heat Wave to Boston
Yeah, its easy to say "do a regional tour" but aside from the midwest corps the logistics of that gets tough.
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The fact is, anyone trying to identify one single issue as the cause is wrong.
The cost side needs to be addressed from multiple angles. Costs of the tour model (and not saying a regional model is necessarily the answer- the regional circuits already failed after all!), costs of the show production (including props\electronics), costs of labor and ever-ballooning staff numbers. No one of these things is a silver bullet, but corrections in all categories may be the difference between solvency and folding.
Likewise, there are definitely questions on the revenue side. It can't be easy generating revenue from the corporate side when the people making those decisions are ever more concerned with their ROI when doling out sponsorship dollars. Alumni\fan revenue generation is certainly an area one could look at (including errors that have been made in pushing away fans over time), but that wouldn't change anything in the here and now and may take more time to change things than drum corps has.
And the fact of the matter is, there may not be an actual answer. There may just be no way that this all maths out long-term. And that will be very sad for most of us who were impacted so positively by our experiences in drum corps.
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2 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:
What should we be more surprised about?
- Cadets calling off 2024
- press release saying "its not a spending problem, its a revenue problem"
- only two hours into this thread, people are defending/deflecting about non-essential expenses such as props and electronics
The problem is, some of these can be related.When you spend a couple decades basically telling everyone "if you don't like it, shut up or go away", even if the costs of those things aren't large directly, there can be indirect costs in that you push away people so they're no longer around when they get to a point in their life they have the free cash to make donations.
I don't even hate all the changes the way some do, but the message of "if you don't like it GTFO" has certainly been loud and clear and I know many people who were big marching arts people who have little interest in drum corps today due to how much its changed.
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6 minutes ago, Mello Dude said:
But still basically the same. Diesel during the summer months this year was basically where it was a decade ago
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1 hour ago, scheherazadesghost said:
100%... care and responsibility for all involved, paying or not. I guess the paying part for me just adds insult to injury and affirms that they're customers paying for an experience that failed.
I get that it is a competitive activity and all, but the way the activity can treat some people when things don't work out, even when there is no abuse involved, can be pretty distant from the overall ideal of being an educational opportunity for youth first and foremost. Especially when kids are paying several grand for the privilege.
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It just me or are the comments quietly locked on that reddit post?
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14 hours ago, C.Holland said:
if the event is run by DCI, dci keeps the cash made. But that means fewer events because well, they're not exactly Aurora Productions. (look them up. you'll understand the reference) They don't have the resources or the workforce to put a show in every city every night of the week.
In fact, by creating scarcity, they can drive up ticket prices of the flagship events.
Which is something that has to be kept in mind when they talk about 'record attendance' at some of their events. They may have great attendance at the regionals/finals, but its still negative if fewer people overall are seeing shows because the number of those are a fraction of what they once were.
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1 hour ago, corps8294 said:
And the Blue Stars aren't? They were a part of the very first DCI finals back in '72. H*ll, they almost won DCI finals in '72. The Blue Stars are very much an established "drum corps name" and they have earned their place in the drum corps "establishment."
Respectfully, I'd say no, the two are not on the same level. Even as someone who marched there and remains a fan as an alum.
The Blue Stars are a solid organization, but lets face it, their world class history is essentially just the last 15 years for most people (the 70s might as well be ancient history and are pretty irrelevant to the brand value), and in that 15 years they've been generally a consistent finalist but not ever getting up into that realm where they could contend for a medal much less win a title.
In comparison SCV is essentially drum corps royalty when you consider both their success and longevity. 50 years of history competing at the top level in DCI, multiple championships, even more shows that medaled, and pretty consistently a top 6 corps.
That's not to diminish the work done at Blue Stars at all. Becoming a consistent finalist, delivering a good experience for members, and running an organization that seems to be on financially sound footing is quite an accomplishment in itself.
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1 sounds good.
2- cant say I like shorter shows, especially when shows often have fewer corps these days. You have to preserve the value of those events. (See also: newspapers decreasing content and then being surprised people found no value in subscribing). Id rather tighten up the overall time, even if it means it becomes less feasible to roll a semi-worth of props onto the field. I don't really buy the prep time argument. Corps used to have no problems putting these shows on the field with shorter periods of pre-tour rehearsal. Again, maybe the answer here is not biting off more than you can chew in terms of complexity
3- Definitely agree with this, and would hope this might tilt things back to being more musically focused
4- I don't buy the justification for this. I don't remember feeling "pressured" by adjudication, other than maybe from on-field judges, which aren't really a thing anymore.
5\6 completely agree. This helps rein in abuses of the A&E components that were never supposed to happen when first proposed
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13 minutes ago, drumcorpsfever said:
Anyone think they can have a top 6 corps under a million dollars a year? Not so.
4 charter buses, equipment rig, prop hauler, volunteer vehicle(s), staff vehicle, 200 meals at a time, multiply by 3 meals a day plus a snack, spring training costs, staffing costs, insurances, equipment… that’s a ton of cash.
Drum corps does not have the scale to sustain a touring model throughout the activity. That’s why the number of corps has dwindle to very few over the years. Go back and read the obituaries on volumes of corps. The list of dead corps seems endless.
DCI needs to become a better scholastic partner. Somehow it needs to get back into the communities they so poorly represent. Perhaps it’s all-star community bands. Match membership ages appropriately with the partnering schools. Drum corps won’t look the same as it does today. However, if DCI doesn’t do something, there won’t be anything left to look at.
I mean, plenty of corps like you imagine existed once upon a time. They all died out too. At faster rates. There just wasnt demand for it. And probably even less with competitive high school marching bands filling the role even more now than back then.
The fact is, drum corps is a niche activity. An expensive niche activity at that. Even if you could go more local, you'd diminish the value of the experience. The tour is a huge part of the value proposition. So yeah, you'd save some costs, but you'd also have to expect a drop in revenue as no one is paying $5k a summer to not get the tour experience. History tells us that the math doesn't work for that model.
The people who have worked tirelessly over decades on the touring model as it exists today didnt do it just because it seemed cool. They did it because it is the best chance for success.
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1 hour ago, gbass598 said:
I mean there is a reason the Madison Jr Scouts and Phantom Regiment Cadets don't exist anymore. There is a reason YEA sold off the Crossmen. If I'm not mistaken, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) the Blue Stars that exists today was actually originally the Blue Stars Cadets that were able to continue after the original Blue Stars folded.
Mostly correct from what I remember of corps history.
The cadet corps kept competing, when the debt was paid off for the original corps the cadet corps adopted the original name. The business entity for the blue stars remained LBS Cadets Inc until 2009 when they adopted the "Blue Stars Performing Arts for Youth" namen
1 hour ago, gbass598 said:Running a drum corps is hard in today's environment. Running 2 national touring corps is insane. I don't know how the Colts can still do it.
While it is certainly an achievement for them to be able to operate 2 corps at all, they have some advantages and "national touring" may be a bit generous as almost all of their shows pre-finals week are within a few hours of Dubuque, in Iowa and the states bordering. The tour schedule sets up well for them as they can compete in WC shows as the WC tour hits their part of the country early on, and then jump in to the western group of the OC tour for OC shows while the WC corps are on their southern\eastern swing.
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1 hour ago, MGCpimpOtimp said:
USA Gymnastics, USA Swimming, DCI, WGI, the Catholic Church...at what point do we stop thinking there's something unique about these organizations, and realize that we have an entire societal issue that needs addressed nationally.
Its anywhere where there's significant power imbalances at work and a culture where people are generally pushed to not question authority or to 'keep things in the family' or 'keep quiet for the good of the team'. I think these all could apply to drum corps at various points, and it means culture changes are/were necessary.
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2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
at the time many of those posts were realistic concerns given what we didn't know. now that we know more and it's happening, i am very supportive
I think it depends on when that naysaying happened. Last year? Sure. A lot was in the air. By this spring? A lot was clear. Vaccinations were moving rapidly. Corps were able to put things in place.
I got kicked out of the 'drum corps friends' facebook group this spring because one of the admins was on a whole tear about how it wasnt safe for members, and those who disagreed with her got the boot.
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On 4/5/2021 at 11:44 AM, IllianaLancerContra said:
DCI and various Corps continue to plan and move toward the summer season. Each Corps, as well as DCI, has (or will have) a Covid Plan, which includes testing symptom checks and the like. Details likely will vary from unit to unit.
My question is this: If one (or more) members or staff of a given Corps test positive for Covid during ST/tour, what happens then? I would assume (dangerous) that the Covid Plan would spell out what happens in this event; I am truly curious what this is. Remove the member & place individual in quarantine? Place the whole Corps in quarantine (which would likely mean missing some performances)? Put entire Corps in quarantine and when period is over send everyone who is not sick) home? Or something else?
I think this is a 'Hope for the best, plan for the worse' situation.
Just IMO, when everyone's vaccinated its almost a zero-level concern.
We now know that the vaccines provide a level of immunity that both reduces the symptoms and the chances of you catching it in the first place. We also know it reduces the chance of spread.
While it was only the ill-informed saying 'this is no worse than the flu' at the beginning of this last year, knowing what we do about the vaccines effectiveness now, with a fully vaccinated group that's essentially what this will be, probably less of a risk than the normal bugs that go through a drum corps every season. And when you consider the members within the group are primarily those in the lowest risk group (staff and volunteers may vary) to begin with- I think there's little to be concerned about now.
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3 hours ago, Poppycock said:
Local community involvement will help substantially. 2021 is a delusional dream for DCI. Indy will be a big disappointment. Might fill the void for many - but don’t set expectations very high. IMO it would serve the majority of organizations to stay close to home. Save your money don’t go to the show. It’s all fake hype!
And if 2021 doesnt happen (or happens minimally) for most corps, even if 2022 comes back with no corps missing a beat on filling their corps, be ready for a step down for most corps as well in 2022. Given the average member marches 2-3 years and we'll have had basically 2 years off, the vet numbers in most corps will be atrocious. Gonna be mostly corps with 90+% rookies out there, which obviously will present a lot of challenges for every group.
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Just now, DFA1970 said:
Yeah...that sounds very corporate like and best case scenario. I'm not trying to sound negative but I don't see schools all of a sudden opening doors with welcome mats. Let alone stadiums. DCI Board is sounding very much like the Tokyo Olympic committee.
The DCI board has to do what they can to try to salvage things, to try to salvage some of the revenue for this year. Its not like this activity is flush with cash, its very conceivable we could lose corps over this.
It may be futile in the end if this goes on for a long time. But theyre doing their jobs in at least trying to find some way of salvaging this.
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Best case scenario (what theyre planning for, it sounds like), things will get compressed by a late start.
Perhaps they'd look at corps getting everydays started late, abandoning the june shows, and kicking off tour sometime in early July. Corps would want to do at least a couple shows before showing up to a major regional, but at very least if they could salvage the July 12-Finals slate, that's probably a reasonable win at this point.
If we're honest, the show quality will probably go down, but for 99% of the audience it will still be great. Those of us that have marched or otherwise have more refined eyes\ears can be more nitpicky than the average fan.
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13 minutes ago, Year Fiver said:
It's "new" revenue for DCI because they're expecting woodwind players who aren't currently interested in the activity to become interested, primarily as audience members. Thus, it's "new" revenue in that there's a new audience, but it's not "revenue" in the sense of being able to ultimately sell more tickets or anything, since it's not like stadiums are getting bigger. It's also not about "more" money, it's about "new" money.
The proposal also focuses only on revenue for DCI, not for the collective sum of individual corps.
Which is dumb as hell. I know a bunch of woodwind players that marched and a ton more that went to drum corps shows. You don't have to be able to be in a drum corps to enjoy it. I mean ####, 99% of people who see a drum corps show will never march.
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16 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said:
What's wrong with the Rose Bowl every year (ucla notwithstanding - ugh)? It's obviously not centraly located, but it's a beautiful location, it will never get rained out, old town Pasadena is fun, plenty of practice and housing options, and its near a large metropolitan city with lots to do besides drum corps (i.e. beach, Disneyland, etc.)
And before you say it.......B.D. are going to win at least every other year anyway.
Gonna be honest, while Pasadena was nice and sunny, driving through LA traffic every day sucked and the rose bowl, being as shallow as it is, is a poor venue for drum corps.
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2 hours ago, Glenn426 said:
#3 Minneapolis, Vikings stadium is a new stadium the area has held a DCI Regional before and you would imagine not having too much trouble securing housing. Weather in Early august is glorious in the area. Mall of the Americas would provide some entertainment and can host the festivities during the week.
This is one i'd really like to see. Minneapolis is a great city in August, and i believe the schools don't kick off in the MSP area until september. Either University of Minnesota or the Vikings stadiums would make great host stadiums. Plus MSP is generally easy to get in and out of being a Delta hub.
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16 minutes ago, kdaddy said:
Organizations being intentional in how they set up mentoring relationships. Designers should seek to mentor a wide array of mentees, and organizations should promote and nurture that activity.
Also, the idea that "women don't want these roles" may be true. But it also may be that they don't see women in those roles while they're marching, therefore they don't envision themselves in that role. We face this issue in engineering in general and in women wanting to pursue advanced degrees in STEM in particular.
Calling out a particular corps, unless their hiring practices are known, isn't helpful. But I hope we all see this activity as one that could use more diversity in upper levels (design, caption management).
You could probably start even lower level and earlier than that. What's the gender makeup of drum corps? Particularly, what is the makeup of hornlines and percussion sections as those end up being those who most often fill the entry-level tech ranks that end up being your brass and percussion caption heads down the road. (I seem to remember those tilting especially male, especially in the percussion caption). Hell, go deeper- is this pattern of behavior evident in high school bands? A lot of times your brass and percussion sections in bands end up being more male, and your woodwind sections (particularly clarinets\flutes) end up being more female. So the candidate pool that drum corps most highly targets at its very lowest levels... tilts male.
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46 minutes ago, GetOFFmyDot said:Wow. People get super uncomfortable when inequality is pointed out. Reminds me of that quote... "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
The state of California finally passed a law forcing organizations to address sexist and discriminatory behavior. The state now requires all publicly-held corporations whose principal executive offices are in California to have at least one female director on their boards by Dec 31, 2019. This law will soon apply to non-profit corporations.
There is a big difference between a BOD and governance, but are y'all actually saying there aren't any capable females to be a caption head or serve on a design team? Or are you saying Blue Stars has a right not to have any females in leadership positions?
Blue Stars have a right to staff however they choose, so long as they do not discriminate. Hiring the best they can find isn't discrimination, even if that means they end up with all male staff. The fact is, the talent pool blue stars are fishing in, whether it be drum corps staff in general or even the broader pool of talent in high school and college band directors, is overwhelmingly male. Drum corps is a niche within a niche, it is going to generally reflect that.
Editing to add: Does that mean the Blue Stars and any other drum corps can't take extra efforts to make sure they are giving full consideration to female talent? Nope. I hope theyre doing that- every organization needs to be able to do that kind of introspection to make sure its own practices arent leading to women not being chosen. But at the end of the day the best candidate for the job should win regardless of gender.
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1 hour ago, N.E. Brigand said:
The difference is: you can choose to be better (or not) than the fans of other activities.
Except discussing rumors of staff changes in no way makes someone less 'better'.
It's part of any public-facing competitive activity and completely fine for people to discuss rumors of changes in any of them.
Post on Reddit about SoA
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by AlexL
An aside that in the majority of states the age of consent is actually 16, with another chunk being 17. Its only about a dozen states where the law is 18. And in those states there are typically close-in-age provisions that would apply to many relations between young adult members and minors.
Not saying that because I think that relations should be encouraged between 16 year olds and 21 year olds or anything (certainly not, in fact corps having their own rules against it would be more than reasonable), but from a legal standpoint, this reduces the legal exposure as most members are above 16/17, and all but the widest age gaps between members would be legal in most states.
Better to focus on something that's a problem even if you get rid of 16/17 year olds, non-consensual relations, assaults, and anything between members and staff (as they're in a position of authority and should always be forbidden).