C.Holland

Here's my concern. And again... I don't want to sound like i'm bashing DCA, but this needs to be said. I think this is why they are having to go younger in recruitment for DCA. After a few years of abusing your body in a Jr corps. I think most age outs don't want to do more of that. They want to move on with their lives. They've already been through the highest level of the marching arts, they can't go up any higher. My concern is that the style of DCA as it currently is, is too close to DCI, and after a few seasons on tour, they don't want to march DCA because it feels like taking a step down. If DCA went back to the "more fun, less art" approach. You might get a few more. Because that's a different style of performance. DCA used to be more about playing and content, than artistic design. No one wants to hear that DCA feels like a step down from DCI, but it is currently. The shows are styled like DCI. There's too much in them to clean, not enough "fun" to hold the DCA crowd's attention, and not enough time to make any of it match the level of what the age outs just came from. They've also just spent $3K+ for each season they marched. But until those corps setting the pace in DCA acknowledge this, and change how they set the pace. Its not going to get better.

While I don't have the real numbers, as I'm not brass of either organization. I can give you the simple answer. (At least from what seems to be the similar perceptions of many on this forum.) The crowds at the landmark events of DCA look to be getting smaller each year. (maybe the southern shows are selling well, but the last few DCA events i went to in NJ and CT looked to be just barely over half capacity, and finals looks smaller each year) Last year DCA may have not lost any corps, but they also didn't gain any corps. (and this year they'll be without a finalist due to Kidsgrove not coming to the US) DCI has been adding groups every few years since 2004, and have had a few corps make the jump from Open to World since that time as well. DCI crowds have been growing each year. And the attendance this year went up again for both Open Class and World Class finals. Stagnation isn't good for an activity that needs to consistently attract new fans and members.

Again... another post that will get me hate mail... (these are opinions from my involvement and observation of both circuits, and only my opinions) Well, first, i think the corps and show sponsors collectively need to work together better. (Remember earlier in this year, when they had three shows on top of each other less than an hour from each other on the schedule...?) That stuff can't happen. You also can't book shows that are on the same night as DCI shows within a 100 mile radius. If the tickets costs are even remotely close, you're going to lose ticket buyers to the other circuit. And those people who are "DCA only" are dying off. They age, they have other stuff to do. Either way, the people you need to be attracting are sitting at the other show. I'm not sure it helps to have so many shows, so close to each other in such short amounts of time. I think you lose opportunities to sell tickets if its the same lineup in two places within an hour drive. (most major cities and artists have a 150 mile clause in their booking contracts. Which means you can't book them on a show within that radius in the same week) Yes i know its easier on the corps if there are two shows next door to each other. But if you moved those two shows that are less than 50 miles apart, to 100 miles apart, the corps can still get their performance op with only a little more cost in fuel, and you've now pulled two different sets of ticket buyers and expanded your reach a little more. Second, if DCA and the corps want more DCA corps, they need to find a way to get more shows. There's a corps in Columbus talking about going through Soundsport in DCI and then working into DCA ranks. Which is cool, but they have limited show opportunities where they are. So travel costs are going to be a huge concern for them. I think students are more attracted to something they can experience first hand. Theres maybe 25 shows in total in the DCA season? (18 of which are in the northeast) I don't think you can grow your activity with so few opportunities to perform, and in so few places. (no, parades all over don't count... no one really loves to play parades) The other problem is that the DCA corps is still trying to be the "poor kids DCI". The shows are simply too demanding to be clean by august for most of the corps. They need to rethink what they are performing. I actually liked that the styles between DCA and DCI were different. Now it looks like one it trying to copy the other, and not doing it terribly well due to time constraints. Get out of rochester. I know its cheap. Its cheap because the city needs a lot of love, and a pressure washer. Yeah, I know that they are updating the stadium. It doesn't matter if your crowd doesn't want to go there. There's nothing else in that area. There's no easy way to get there and there's no local corps to help draw people and market. Tap into those southern connections. CV and Alliance have shows that look to be selling well. Why not try to get some more shows down that way? Make it worthwhile for the northern corps to travel down there. And last... marketing. If you buy a ticket for a DCI show, they're going to send you invites to buy tickets for everything they have coming up. Indoor season, band show, other corps show that they perform in... etc. I've purchased tix from several DCA shows in the last couple years. And its nothing but radio silence. I have to seek them out to find information.

I can see where you're coming from on this. But as those small corps died off. (again, money in vs money out - shows/travel/housing costs rising) they had to rethink their recruitment. Now they're dipping into the same pools as the Jr corps. Think of the saturation of market in the NJ/NY/PA area. Tough Market.

Perhaps his version of "retirement" is stepping back to only managing ONE ensemble. hahahaha. and training the next generation. Heck, I'd move to Concord if I could apply to do that and learn from him.

If the crowd keeps going the way it has been... Roachester will have made the decision for them.

Its hurt everyone. DCI Open Class corps don't get a dime for performing in Open Class shows. But with the corps so spread out, its really a budget concern to haul buns way up to the middle of nowhere (for nothing in return). At least DCI could schedule a few more shows up there with World Class to make it worthwhile.

I concur with these. i really like the closing of BD 1997. Casablanca to a T. I also have a soft spot for Madison 2013. When the alumni stood up in the stands to sing Never Walk with the corps performing on the field. Awesome moment. But also 1999 Boston Crusaders. The looks on their faces when it was announced that they'd be in finals. Amazing. Or the Blue Knight mellophone (i'm so sad i can't remember his name) that marched with one arm.

that makes sense. if they want to continue to be great, it makes sense to put someone in charge of money in/out and overall continued development of the organization.

I'm sure i'm going to get hate mail for this, but DCA's fanbase is shrinking. As is DCA. (How many corps did it lose in the last five years?) And I like DCA. I think it is in an identity crisis right now though. It needs to lose this "poor man's DCI" image. Because its still frickin' expensive. The shows want to be DCI style, but they don't have the time to clean them to that level of demand. (there's only one corps doing this well, there's a few trying real hard, and the rest... just look dirty in August) But on the contrary, DCI is growing. They had 24000 in attendance at DCI finals, and over 2000 at open class finals. I'm not sure what DCA had, but I hesitate to think it was more than 3000 at finals. (sure, there were some low cost tickets at DCI, and maybe even some comped, but I'm not sure DCA could get 10000 people if they comped tix) DCI is adding open class corps every year thanks to its Soundsport program and revamped corps coaching and consulting. No longer is it "here's this pamphlet, not go make a corps". They take a more vested interest in the corps and how they develop so that they can be strong financially. They added 6 new corps into Open Class last year, and have at least 4 more that are planning to grow from Soundsport into Open class for next season. Total corps count for DCI 48. Total corps count for DCA 20. (19 technically this year, due to Kidsgrove not coming to the US this season) I don't want to sound like I'm bashing DCA, but the "every corps & every show for itself" isn't working. Finals in a place that has little to offer other than cheap beer isn't working. At least the finally moved those shows that were on the same dates around. To be honest though, two things kills drum corps. Money coming in vs money going out, and the experience given to the corps members. Mediocre experiences don't bring people back. Maybe in the past DCA was able to pull more DCI age outs to stay a few seasons. But I'm going to take a guess that many don't want to march after they've aged out. I know I didn't. I had my fill after five years of abusing my body. I'm happy to teach, and tech, and clean shows. But I've no desire to carry a horn on a field. But loyalty is still pretty prevalent. You'll always have some to wonder if the grass is greener. And with airfare getting cheaper, its easier and cheaper to fly to some corps, than it is to drive 6-8 hours for another. I think one of the concerns it costs to get to shows. As shows die off, or promoters find they don't make enough money on them, so they shut them down, and then that kills the corps financially as they have to travel longer to get to other shows and bear those costs to get there. Fuel costs money, Rehearsal space costs money (and its really going through the roof), noise ordinances from Nancy who wants to sip coffee on her porch without hearing a Dr Beat kill your corps. Schools are no longer as open to accepting outside groups into their facilities to practice or stay overnight due to security reasons. (or other groups who've already stayed there, and ruined that relationship for everyone) So there are lots of reasons some corps die off. But its the end its money in vs money out, and the experience given that brings members in the door.

So perhaps Mr Gibbs felt he was being spread to thin. Its possible. Running a corps is one thing, running an organization that covers 3 corps, indoor guard, drumlins, wind symphony, shriner's acrobats...etc etc etc sounds like the only time you're not working is literally when you're in the john.

I concur with what has been said here. While being a marching member isn't requirement. Knowledge of the techniques, and the ability to teach them quickly is. Knowing how corps function day to day is essential, as well as actually being involved in that is essential. Because you can watch it from the outside all you want, but it's never same mental game until you're in it. DCA operates different from DCI. Their camps are somewhat similar, but also somewhat different. They have different timelines (everyday corps vs weekend corps ) and different expectations at each rehearsal due to this. I'm going to be the jerk in the room and tell you honestly that many will be hesitant to hire someone who hasn't marched anywhere (DCA or DCI) as that person hasn't experienced the rigorous schedule and cant speak about how they or their body handled it. They don't understand the body limitations, and pushing themselves beyond what was originally thought humanly possible. Because you can't, unless you've done it. Breathing is different, moving is different, how everyone handles their days are different. How everyone handles the activity psychologically is different. Its also a family. Where everyone, knows everyone. The goods, the bad... etc. From corps to corps. That's all part of the game. Its a relationship culture. Like any music scene. "You need a drummer for next week? ok, I know a guy that can handle our style of..." I've had bad instructors who marched. i've had good and great instructors who marched. Ive had good and bad who marched either one, or both DCI and DCA. I've had some who only marched indoor percussion or WGI and then taught drum corps, and where good or great instructors. I will say Ive never had a good instructor that didn't have some sort of experience in DCI, WGI, DCA, or even the upper crust of BOA. Even one season. I think that's all that you really need to experience it. I would recommend two seasons somewhere in DCA so you can understand what happens to your body between seasons, how it has to readjust back to normal life, and what you need to do to get it ready for the next season. Because its different after a season. I've never had an instructor that didn't march that the kids really respected, unless they had proved themselves as a playing or a teaching professional first. (meaning they were a pro musician, or were teaching at the college level, or at the least came from a high school program that is considered elite) They have established themselves as not just a person who really likes drum corps, they established themselves and someone who can help them improve as a performer, and they have shown they can do that, as they perform at a high level themselves first.

I stopped in at rehearsal, and was amazed with what I saw and heard. There are only 11 spots left in the Raiders brass line. A couple of tubas, 1 bari, a few mellos, and a few trumpets. If you're looking for a place to march, know a student who is, or know of a band director that supports DCI, please send them this info. http://aplusarts.org/raiders If they have any questions, then can send them my way, I'll put them in contact with the correct people. The hornline sounds amazing. Easily this is the best year hands down talent-wise, the horn book is a chop buster, and their fees are really low. Again, if you know anyone looking to march. Send them my email. HollandLD@Gmail.com thanks for sharing this. cheers.

You're spot on. However... it is in my opinion that DCA's "every corps/show for itself" is going to be the downfall of the organization. DCI pulls all of the directors together to promote the activity. When a potential member doesn't cut it in one corps, that corps calls another and says "hey check this kid out". Shows get more email blasts and attention. I bought tickets to one YEA show and i get a reminder to buy tickets for EVERY event sponsored by YEA, or that a YEA group is performing in near me. So it means the groups and shows need marketing people. Get that ticket buyer info, keep it in your excel files, and sell sell sell sell sell sell... not just the shows. But the corps. sell. It feels like there is very little collaboration on any of this between corps, DCA, and promoters.

Please... please please please put John Mayer in the deer stalker hat. please.

Raiders need tuba, mello, and trumpet.

I think this goes with the same idea of "no corps, no jacket". While i do know some I've marched with who didn't get a fleur on their shoulder, i don't know anyone who didn't march who did. Its part of that rite of passage. You've earned it and became a part of the history of that ensemble. Now I'm not saying you can't, but i will say, if I see someone on the marching field with a delta, or a fleur, or a chevron teaching a group, and I ask them what years they marched, and they say "oh... i just love the corps" I'll feel a little weird about you. Like you didn't earn that but feel inclined to LOOK like you earned it. I've known a few people who were volunteers for many years with some ensembles and are a part of their booster organizations, who have a tattoo but didn't march in that group. I would say they've earned it as much as the members for being a part of that organization's history. But it took a few years.

Michael Boo... you've never put anything better. I had the same thought. Why is this person marching Music City if they want to be the DM somewhere else?

Very few corps have rookie DMs for a reason. You need to be a part of the corps and its values to lead it. You're the first one up in the morning, you're the last one asleep in the gym. You're always positive, yet tough on the members, and often the bridge between staff and corps. We also know very little about you. How many years you've been conducting, what your leadership is...etc etc etc. I would suggest if you want to be a DM somewhere, then you need to march there first.

I love those guys n gals. Actually one of my favorites to see at the shows.

Does this mean we get the silk shirts back and put the figure skater tops away for a season?

So its a show, about their own shows? wait a minute....

i concur with some of the people on here. When i marched we played it at EVERY retreat. We also always did a full retreat every night. I think often times you have a noise ordinance nowadays, which means you sometimes don't even have time for a victory concert. So in some cases its due to time. And if you don't play it every night, you then have players who don't know it well. And so on... and so forth that its better to not play anything than to play it poorly. Its also a maturity concern. Yes, there were many sops playing it up and holding over because they thought it was cool. Which is wasn't. while I miss hearing that, i don't miss the shenanigans. again, do it right and great, or when in doubt, leave it out.

yup. im' glad i wasn't the one to post that joke.

I think you've dug yourself a hole with that name. There's also a plethora of corps that are dark in color.