MikeRapp
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Posts posted by MikeRapp
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Well. I made the show.
Really? Where?
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Or maybe people who weren't actually on tour with the Cadets will get actual glimpses of GH and everyone else and develop whole new perspectives on everyone to replace what was before based only on rumor and innuendo.
That's my point. But let's be honest, George is a mercurial personality and he has never been shy around the camera. This was one very tumultuous season for Cadets. How much tumult do they show?
Does anyone know if anyone in DCI has seen the show yet? When I worked on Undercover Boss, the first time we saw the show (or for that matter any of the footage) was when it aired on TV.
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Getting excited for this! :-)
Kinda weird knowing how it all will end.
Also, interested to see how they incorporate the tarp disappearing and the staff RV catching fire.
Not being facetious, but by far the biggest unknown is how they cover George Hopkins—with mid-tour staff dismissals, mid-week rewrites ad nauseum, et al. I think we all agree, that could go one way that might get a lot of eyeballs...and not be flattering to DCI.
Personally, I am interested to see if/how they reference other corps, and especially Bluecoats, given how unconventional and successful their 2016 tour was.
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There have been a few of this phenomena over the last several years that still amaze me...I'm probably forgetting some others I'm sure...
Boston Crusaders 1998 15th
Boston Crusaders 1999 9th
Carolina Crown 2002 16th
Carolina Crown 2003 10th
Troopers 2008 16th
Troopers 2009 12th
The Academy 2015 15th
The Academy 2016 11th
This is interesting...but what about within the same season? How many, if any, corps jumped five spots during the season? And how many did that within the top 10?
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Yes
Today's lower placing corps is not the lower placing corps of even 10 years ago let alone 20, 30 or 40 years back in time
I would also guess that the sheer number of people on staff at any of the World Class corps dwarfs the staffs of 20 years ago.
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Since you keep mentioning 10th, here is some context. Back in 1987, the Garfield Cadets lost to Spirit of Atlanta three times in June/July, yet it was Garfield that won DCI and Spirit that finished 10th. This was simply a case of one corps improving much more than another during the season, and judges calling it as it happened.
Now, if corps are so much better today, the margins between them should be narrower. Why would we expect less movement between corps? Should be more.
I would argue that 1987 was a completely different landscape than DCI today. The shows are infinitely more demanding, far more moving pieces, and to be honest the level of competitiveness in the 6-15 range is incomparable. Today, it is remarkable to accomplish what Academy did—which was to make finals after competing in the low teens for the early part of the season.
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Didn't I also recently see the show stating "Hell is empty and all the Devils are here"? Thought that was pretty cool, too.
Blue Devils. Heh. Who'd have guessed? (Besides ALL of the Blue Devils and their fans, that is...)
Yes, that's the line I was referring to.
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Far more common in movies. Less so in music. But it does happen.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_change#United_States
There are a few in there.
Bionic Woman moved from ABC to NBC, for example.
More likely in this scenario would be another network sees the potential in the concept and approaches Bluecoats, Crown, Crossmen and Cavaliers. But again I don't know what rights of first refusal, if any, Fuse may have in future works.
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It is common for a network to have right of first refusal on future seasons and episodes. Often, what happens is that the producer/artist pays off the contract with advance money from the new distributor.So, if I understand you, if Johnson decided to include four corps (for example) and Fuse couldn't afford the cost of production, Johnson could take it to another network but would still have to pay Fuse? Huh? Why would they have to pay Fuse?
It is very common in Hollywood for contracts to get bought and sold between distribution companies. Maybe fuse would want to hold onto it if it was a success...I just don't know the contractual arrangement and who actually signed. Did DCI sign, or did BD and Cadets sign? For what term did they sign for? I'd be shocked if it was for more than this season.
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Given the level of competition today do you reallyy believe a 10th place corps coming out of the gate could go to 1st? lets look at this realistically. If a corps is so good as to jump that much in 8 weeks then why did they come out in 10th. Obviously there's a reason why a corps would come out 10th which would prevent such a jump.
We're basically saying the same thing. I reluctantly agree. The only way to "fix" that is to have twice as many corps, with twice as many qualified MMs.
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I am not privy to the contracts in regards to the show, but I suspect ther is a "first right of refusal" on Fuse's part. Most of the times when TV shows move networks, it's downward and not upward because the show may not be considered a success by a larger network, but a smaller network would be fine with it. (Example: Supergirl moving from CBS to CW). I can't think of a single example of a show moving to a bigger network without the original network retaining rights. I remember Monk, a USA Network show, showing their repeats on ABC in the summer, but USA still ran the originals.
Moving up can happen, though, if Fuse would accept compensation by the new network. That does happen in the entertainment business everywhere. The previous label/film company/distribution system accepts a development fee—or gets a percentage of the future take. They could make more money by simply being a silent partner.
The most likely scenario would be that Johnson sees the inherent limitation of picking two corps based on past history and believes three or four would be much more compelling. Fuse might not have the money to fund that, given their small audience size, but would gladly step aside for, say, Bravo or Fox buying Season 2 if they got a payout for essentially signing a transfer agreement.
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I agree for sure about that...even in June...sorry to admit it...there are levels...and those hurtles become increasing more difficult to jump as the season progresses further...many people IMO are deluding themselves (myself included) to believe differently...hence why people believe in the whole slotting idea...25 years ago I believed it was just political...but as I've seasoned I've come to realize that for DCI it couldn't be farther from the truth and I was just being delusional...every year in June after 3 or 4 contests we seem to all know who the contenders are for the title...anything else is just wishful thinking...
As I've said before, former two time National College Basketball Coach of the Year Eddie Fogler is often asked if officials are biased. He answers: Every official knows which team is supposed to win the game.
If you think that doesn't factor largely into how judges perceive relative "good-ness" of corps, you're just not being honest.
I will say this, though: With shows increasing in demand and variety every year, it's becoming less and less arguable about who is best. You may not like a certain show, but it ain't just playing loud and marching fast anymore. Shows are so complex on so many levels now, that you can have a medalist quality show in six categories and suck in one —and it's just obvious to everyone.
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I think you nailed it...My question is what is the set of criteria that makes a "candidate" have potential?
I'd agree with this, quite reluctantly. I'd like to believe Crossmen could start 10th and finish first, but that's not practically possible given the crazy parameters of a DCI season.
That's why I continue to believe that the single most important advantage BD continues to have is the age and experience of its A corps members. They're starting halfway to the finish line on Day 1, and they know you're not catching them with high schoolers marching their first tour.
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exactly. Sometimes I see posts when people say it's impossible for corps to move but people look at a certain corps improving during a season BUT dont take into consideration others do also so as you go on it can be harder
I think we would all agree that, no matter what the level of improvement a corps might make, it is practically impossible for any corps to jump up more than a certain number of positions during the tour—from beginning to end. This is because DCI scores primarily on relative terms, rather than by a book.
Think of it this way. You have a 3-point shooting contest between 10 basketball players, with 50 competitions. Whomever makes the most 3-pointers in each of the 50 contests wins the title for that night. If you make 0 of 30 on your first competition you finish last; If you make all 50 on the final competition, you finish first. Does not matter that you went 0-fer on the first night, or even on the next to last night, you made all 50 on the last night so you won it all.
I'm not saying it is possible to judge DCI this way or even that it should be possible. In fact I personally like the subjective nature of drum corps judging. But I also recognize that once you are grouped in a box, you simply aren't like to improve more than one box for the entire season no matter how well you perform your show. I would love to know what the biggest jump has been in modern DCI history from the opening show to Finals. I bet it isn't more than five positions in the history of DCI.
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Excellent explanation. Thanks.
I understand from Johnson's FB page that tomorrow (Tuesday) he's going to have a free streaming of the show on his FB page. Will that count as viewership even though it's not on the FUSE page?
And I wonder about the rest of the series. If the first show is not watched widely, is there a risk that the other 7 shows in the series could be cancelled?
Based on your explanation, if it's widely viewed and measured as a success, it's feasible that Johnson could attempt to sell it to a different network next year? Perhaps something more widely watched?
Thanks a bunch. It's obvious that drum corps fans have the opportunity to make up for the follies that got drum corps cancelled from PBS by promoting and watching the series over the next 8 weeks. I know my family is promoting the crap out of it (kids in school and all of us on FB) and I hope other fans are doing so as well.
This is an admittedly small trampoline, but it might be just the jump-start that DC could use to someday compete with Punkin' Chunkin' or the cheerleading championships.
There is a chance the season could be cancelled at any time, but it would be highly unlikely given that near 100% of the costs to produce the show have already been incurred.
Not sure what their Fuse contact calls for but usually the network gets the right of first refusal on future seasons.
As far as Johnson's Facebook page, the numbers are quickly skewing to online viewing anyway. I don't really know how Fuse works, but most networks now openly promote online viewing options. And the younger the audience (and obviously this will be a relatively young audience) the more likely they are to watch on YouTube or another portal. Any network today knows that you cannot just look at pure broadcast numbers.
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It can cut both ways though as I'm sure you know...
Sorry, what do you mean?
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I watched the series premiere of HBO's Westworld last night, and what do you know, the big quote that Blue Devils used to open "What Dreams are Made On" from The Tempest was the focal point of the show's plot theme! Pretty cool, watching it, and remembering how BD used the quote for exactly the same purpose.
http://www.thewrap.com/westworld-episode-1-shakespeare-quotes-explained/
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Yes , not just judges. sometimes its better to stay under the radar and let the improvement be a surprise but in this case it was a little hard. Like others who have had change or even last year as I said about Cadets a big ole microscope will be in use for sure and of course picked apart by many.
Well, Bluecoats wasn't under the radar, they were completely off it.
Cadets, on the other hand, showed their hand from Day 1, as they always do, and we all know how that turned out.
To me it really isn't about staying under or on the radar. It's having a nearly complete show design, with a cohesive show concept, from Day 1—literally. The idea that we'll just keep redesigning the show all season until we finally hit something is over. Thankfully.
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I hear what youre saying totally and agree to a point BUT I believe corps slot themselves. Can one move up as you go along? sure, is it hard YUP. the fix for this I think is coming out strong so you dont have to play catch up all year. Which we all have seen every year with one corps or another.
The thing is, even if you somehow put a mid-80s-point show on the field in early June, you will not score mid-80s. DCI now knows that you have to have "enough room" at the end of the season to differentiate between the scores when you get in the high 80s and 90s.
That is where I don't agree with how the scoring is done because it does lend credence to the self-fulfilling prophecy theorists (aka Slotting).
I've seen enough shows to be able to separate the good from the great. And I realize that the relative scoring system is the best of several imperfect options. But wow, the pressure really is on for corps to "bring it" from Day 1. The old "we clean better than anyone else" stuff literally only goes so far in DCI now. It appears you can't clean your way from sixth to third anymore.
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I have some questions for the DCP braintrust. I prefer actual knowledge instead of speculation, of course:
Who instigated this project? One of the corps? DCI? Bob Jacobs? John DeNovi? Dave Gibbs? Hop?
Did the introduction begin with the film crew or directors, or do projects like these start with the producer, in this case The Rock?
How does the money or royalties break down? Do the corps benefit, does DCI (and therefore the other corps), or some combination?
Will there be a way for us in the activity to find out how well-received the show and series are?
What viewership would be considered a success for such a project? Drum corps is the small niche, but HS band is obviously huge; is the profit margin the only consideration? Or is profit a function of eyeballs and advertising?
I'd like to know this as well, and I would assume the answers will come out soon.
I will say, having attended probably the largest TOC show of 2016, there was absolutely nothing said about the show in Nashville. Nothing handed out to guests. No "booth" for Fuse that I saw. Really huge lost opportunity IMHO.
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Oh it will come for sure especially the more people talk about all the changes, As I said expectations come along with that and deserved or not they might be grouped under the same microscope with the top corps merely because of either the hype or the staff. This is unfair and a preconception difficult place to be. NOW it can also be an epic win. It all just depends on many many things but either way there will be no avoidance of the scrutiny. IS it a bad thing? Well all top corps deal with it . Just comes with the territory.
There is no doubt that the judges will be watching what BAC puts on the field from Day 1, and will be ready to consider upward mobility in a different light. This is certainly pretty unique in the DCI world, perhaps going all the way back to Star.
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The " Slotting" conspiracy theory is not in this day and age. It's been around even pre DCI . I agree with the rest.
I sort of disagree with this. Because DCI's scoring methodology is fundamentally comparative—and not "by the book"—where a corps is in relation to the corps directly ahead and behind it is the most important scoring data.
Were that not the case, a score of 90 in Tulsa would be the same as a score of 90 in Dallas on the same night.
In other words, if a corps starts the season in eighth, it is for all intents and purposes physically impossible for it to win the gold. The season just isn't long enough, with enough judges, to make quick enough headway.
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Did Sarah Connor march with the Cadets?
Yes. She aged out.
Twice.
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cool stuff. i mean i sort of want Klesch to go after the original because he has that knack of preserving the composer's intent so beautifully. anyway as Whitacre himself said today - I can't believe the piece is 18 yrs old already!
I could see Blue Knights doing a show simply titled Whiteacre. They would do it justice.
So would SCV.
"Clash of the Corps" Episode Discussion
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
I thought it went as well as one could hope, but I do hope we hear more music and playing as the series continues.
Bet moment is when th BD guard reminisces about her sister. Well done, Dwayne.