[2023 DCI WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP FINALS]

Just now, kevingamin said:

I know about the sugar cubes and the spoons. What’s the large black thing supposed to be, a straw?

When you have to ask…

[2023 DCI WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP FINALS]

I am super super glad Knights are in finals. 

I remain hopeful that they will eventually figure out the props/visual part of this activity. More than any other finalist corps, Knights always seems to make visual the least/last thing in their design. Props are too small, too noisy, and make little sense. I don’t know why Knights is consistently so good in other areas and so confusingly missing visual design.

[Bluecoats 2023]

9 minutes ago, ContraFart said:

Crown has more 5 star brass players than BD. Several corps have just as many 5 star percussion players and guard members as BD. That argument just doesn't hold up

And Crown wins the brass caption.

[Bluecoats 2023]

3 minutes ago, Vuitton said:

Which is why if I were running Crown, Boston or Bluecoats everyone's ### would be on a bus in June heading to the Bay Area. See BD at the first show and you know immediately where you stand.

What’s the point? You can send Vanderbilt’s coaches to watch every single Alabama practice. Write down every play. Won’t matter. Alabama is filled with 5 star recruits who are essentially NFL players on a college campus.

[Bluecoats 2023]

3 hours ago, oldbandguy said:

I'm curious as to in what ways you think they are significantly BETTER than everyone else?

More than one way to answer that, but here’s one:

BD consistently marches one of the oldest, most experienced and certainly most accomplished corps in DCI. Every single year. On Day 1 they are so far ahead of 90% of the rest of Dci that they can be cleaning their show from week three on. The tiny tiny details, at scale, just match up show after show.

Because of how dci scores shows and seasons, their head start means they set the bar. And that is almost impossible to beat. The shows that beat them ran the table end to end. It’s just the nature of the activity.

BD is clean from day 1. By the time you get to finals they are sleeping in hotels and haven’t played a show in a week. It is a formula that works over and over again.

[Dci fans should be ashamed of themselves]

1 hour ago, GREENBLUE said:

I think the confusion lies within your statement, “staff that knows how to design winning shows.”
Most fans, I say most…not all, do not understand why the Blue Devils design is the absolute. In terms of GE it consistently is the top, but why? take away GE scores and BD does not have the wins. I believe that’s where the frustration lies. Why do the judges believe this show is #1 while the audience, again not everyone, does not. Maybe the term GE needs to be changed???

It won’t matter. No matter what rules you make, it won’t change the fact that BD can still recruit the most experienced and accomplished members (ensuring they don’t march for their competitors) and put a $100,000 sound system on the field.

[Dci fans should be ashamed of themselves]

1 hour ago, ContraFart said:

The question is how do we unstack that deck in the name of competitive parity? It seems to be an impossible task since you can't tell people where to spend their money, and DCI does not have the same tools that sports leagues have to create parity. 

DCI is unique as a competitive organization. Do they have a responsibility to create the fairest competitive environment, or do they have the responsibility to create the best member experience? 

 

DCI isn’t a franchise. It’s a trade org. The rules are made by and agreed to by the members. DCI has no power to enforce any rule unless the members agree.

[Dci fans should be ashamed of themselves]

1 hour ago, mboogey73 said:

Accurate.  When your core staff that knows how to design winning shows has very little turnover in decades, and you're fielding the most talented corps every year, you're going to win. A lot. 
 

In sports terms, BD gets their pick of 5 star recruits.  

And this is why I take their “method of design” with a few shakes of salt. It simply won’t work if you’re fielding a corps that is 80% first year DCI 18 year old marching members.

[Dci fans should be ashamed of themselves]

There are now a handful of orgs that can compete with BD every year—though sadly SCV was one of them until this season. Still, the resources at the hands of those who run the BD org are vast, diverse and somewhat unique. Regardless of how good Bluecoats, Crown and Boston are, BD has two decades of winning behind them. They can sign almost anyone auditioner they want to sign. This makes it possible to field the most demanding technical shows without dot charts.

It’s simply not a fair fight. It’s not BDs fault, for sure. But let’s be honest and say nine times out of ten BD is going to win because they are literally playing with a stacked deck.

[Boston Crusaders 2023]

Not sure who the director in charge of costuming is, but the guard costumes are the best of the season by a significant margin. Just beautiful.

[Dci fans should be ashamed of themselves]

We all know that if you cheer for the Cowboys or Yankees or ManU, you probably do so because you like cheering for the most popular brand.

You also know that a lot of people won’t like you, and won’t be attending the Super Bowl, MLB or Cup parade. Comes with the territory.

In DCI these are kids and no matter how much your loyalties get you riled up, you should never openly diss a kid. I remember days when people booed BD. That was the era when a certain corps played Pop Goes the Weasel when a fellow corps won a medal to mock their book. Thankfully we aren’t there anymore.

IMHO adults should show respect for all the performers regardless of their corps or final ranking. Demanding a standing ovation seems kind of…silly. 

[Bluecoats 2023]

BD is so well-honed (for a variety of reasons) that their shows both look and sound 80% the same. This might not be so obvious if their show concepts weren’t so narrow. 

Fwiw I also generally don’t care for the other tropes in DCI. It doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate their relative achievements, but sameness for me isn’t a benefit to my appreciation of a show. It’s likely that the sameness is something that makes it easier for corps recruit and raise funding (alums tend to be attached to their era of a corps—we have seen this in spades with Madison,  Phantom and Cadets). 

The sameness (a nice way of saying predictability) is a lot easier to accept if you keep winning. If you’re Madison, it may not be a winning strategy.

That’s why I think Bluecoats is smart to establish a general edgy brand image rather than something as extremely narrow as BD. Bloo can do Beatles and then do R&R and then Garden of Love and it still sits in their creative wheelhouse.

I am aware enough to recognize that BD is just simply better than everyone else by a significant margin. But I don’t think that has anything to do with their show styles, which is why I would like to see them risk more. BD is playing it safe, because they keep winning.

[Dci fans should be ashamed of themselves]

13 minutes ago, DFA1970 said:

I call it BD fatigue and I get it. But these kids are working just as hard as any corp kids are and they are real good performers. Lots of them go on to teach themselves. As with any fans sports ect you a few who “hate”. I use that word because it’s true. B D knows they’re not right now fan favorite for the fact they win all the time. Is it their fault they’re so good? 

Comes with the territory. BD can pretty much sign anyone they offer now, they have the biggest org, the most money, the best sound system (maybe arguable), probably the best paid staff…keep going. They are the Yankees of DCI in the pre-salary cap era. If you’re a Yankees fan you love it, if you’re the Rays…not so much.

[Bluecoats 2023]

It may be that the maturation of this activity means each corps will (and will have to) develop their own distinct method and show style—and maybe it’s always been this way. The down side is once you get known for that, it can seem stale and safe.

Bluecoats’ “style” allows them to do a Beatles show one year and whatever Riffs was last year. And Garden of Love this year.  It’s still Bluecoats—but entirely fresh from year to year.

Crown has a musical style of arrangements and performance that we can immediately see and especially hear as Crown. But their show concepts are very diverse IMO.

If any corps’ “tropes” get so recognizable that it seems they are seen as boring or cynical (hey it worked last year, lets just keep doing that) then it’s up to each of us to decide whether we like that.

[Dci fans should be ashamed of themselves]

5 hours ago, valjean said:

"It's not enough that they win I need YOU, PERSONALLY to like it too."

Like. Come on man lol.

I don’t get this statement. I don’t love the BC show personally but totally appreciate what they are trying to accomplish. Same with BD. Everyone wants to like every show “personally.” But that’s not reality.

[Bluecoats 2023]

7 hours ago, resipsaloquitur said:

Yea they should design their show to LOSE. Like you would do that if you were a champion. Not.

Of course I would. But that’s just me. I would not want to keep mining the same concept over and over again. As a designer, I would want to do something new and more challenging. 

[Dci fans should be ashamed of themselves]

7 hours ago, resipsaloquitur said:

TBH no hate on the Coats but my partner and I almost fell asleep during parts of their show tonight. Maybe we were sitting too high up at 641. Maybe we were just high as the show designers were.

I’ve said this many times, I am a huge BC fan but this is not my favorite show of theirs, or even of this season. But I do respect how they approach show concept and design, especially GE, brass arrangements and costuming.

[Dci fans should be ashamed of themselves]

7 hours ago, resipsaloquitur said:

Yea BD really should change it up for the sake of changing it up so they don't win. Sour grapes. Meh.

Or they change it up and win again.

[Dci fans should be ashamed of themselves]

14 minutes ago, BlueStainGlass said:

Yeah totally see how they tied the sapphire into the show about paper cut outs. Can't forget the ghost light sticky note because that was the same.  

Oh and yeah BD ballads hit me in the feels every year. If you want to say they all sound the same then the crown triplet Mello licks and Bluecoats repeating parts of the last 10 years are gonna be a shock for you. 

Yep: same. The BD ballads are literally all the same. Even the staging is the same.

[Bluecoats 2023]

4 minutes ago, resipsaloquitur said:

Which "BD" are you talking about? The 6-7 or so Hall of Famers we saw on the field tonight (with a new addition)? The staff and the MMs who are the most humble and hard-working ones I've ever met in this activity? The corporate entity? The 501(c)(6) non-profit? The youth education leader? The one that allows kids aged 8-22 to march all 3 levels of the activity plus special needs? Please be specific with your complaint so the complaint department can correctly address your query. 🤣

Do. Something. New. 
 

If you have all these resources, why not use them to take some risks? That’s what I guess I don’t understand. Why would you want to keep doing the same thing every year when you could literally do ANYTHING and probably still win?

[Bluecoats 2023]

5 minutes ago, ContraFart said:

So no other corps plans? No other corps has great teachers? No other corps has talented members? I am so effing sick and tired of the superiority complex of BD. 

They are superior. I mean look at the gold medals. I totally respect their craft, I just find it a bit cynical. It’s the same concept over and over again, even some of the same arrangements and passages. 
 

I get that Crown has their things too. Cavaliers, Cadets, even Coats. But 95% of BD is intentionally reflective of things they did last year and the year before. It’s the same concept over and over again, and until the judges stop rewarding it—they obviously are not gonna change.

[Bluecoats 2023]

1 hour ago, ContraFart said:

BD is not a point and half better than Bluecoats. That is a BS score. Just keep doing what you are doing.

Not gonna change. BD plans every single aspect of their existence to win the technical points that amount to gold. They recruit the most skilled kids, pay the most to the best teachers…heck they have the best sound system. They are a winning machine, they have the goose that lays the golden eggs, and until that doesn’t work anymore they’re gonna keep mining that same creative concept. Over and over and over again.

[Dci fans should be ashamed of themselves]

3 minutes ago, MikeBD said:

I went to my first finals in Madison in 1086 and was hooked.  
 

I don’t care if someone hates the show but show a little respect for the kids. 

I wasn’t there, I get feeling that way if you are a hard core BD fan as you are. But when did BD care about fan reaction? Never. So why be angry if fans don’t feel it? Do something new that connects with fans. Change the game up. 
 

Why do you think people scream their heads off for Bluecoats? They take risks. They do their thing to connect with the crowd. They are innovative, they are always reaching for new ways to entertain. People respect that risk taking, they love it when groups do something new and interesting.

 

[Dci fans should be ashamed of themselves]

1 minute ago, Triple Forte said:

Trust me, I don’t mean this to be a jerk I am seriously asking are you new to drum corps?  Fans have reacted all sorts of different ways over the years for Corps and their individual performances.  It has been this way since the beginning of the activity even pre-dci 

I love DCI, I think it’s the most amazing creative event of the year. 

[Dci fans should be ashamed of themselves]

BD is doing the same basic show every year. It’s an ever more polished version of the same concept over and over again. It’s technically amazing in every possible way, and that’s why they will again win the gold. But do people feel anything? Eh.