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Chief Guns

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Posts posted by Chief Guns

  1. 26 minutes ago, dcsnare93 said:

    Not sure it would have been better received, but probably less talked about at the time. I also wouldn’t lump all of 08-13 into one basket, some were better received than others from what I experienced being around the corps a lot some of those seasons.

    But as they say, some things do get better with age. A few of those shows are looked at much more favorably now than they were then.

    That is a fact. 2011 is gets a lot of love on this forum over the last several years. But during that 2011 season.......wow, the hatred was real.

    • Like 1
  2. 12 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

    that and from 08-13 the shows were generally unpopular

    That's fair. But let me ask you this. Do you think BD fatigue at the very least plays a factor in the hatred they receive?

    Example..........

    In an alternate universe, let's say BD has zero titles. Then going into 2010 they are in the running to win their first title ever, and they do the "Thru A Glass Darkly" show.

    With no titles or BD dominance to speak of, do you think the 2010 show would be better received? Or do you think it gets the same exact response?

  3. 3 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

    A few thoughts:

    1.  I do not think anyone is suggesting that GE be judged purely on volume of audience reaction.

    2.  While home field advantage does exist in certain places, it usually does not apply to DCI finals.  Finals has an audience that travels in from all over.  Take an example from around that same time - 1997.  There was a hometown corps in the Orlando finals and in peak form, but the corps whose crowd response measured on the Richter scale instead of mere decibels hailed from over a thousand miles away in Madison, Wisconsin.

    3.  Regarding your rhetorical question - should 1999 Madison have beaten top corps in GE - that is the wrong question to ask.  Recall that in GE, Glassmen beat Madison.  Madison did not even surpass Blue Knights in the effect caption, settling for a tie there.  Seventh overall, tie for sixth in "effect".  I have no particular dispute with the overall results.  But the degree to which "effect" captions take performance into account (and conversely, how much "performance" captions account for design) blurs away whatever distinction we were trying to make.  That is why I posted this earlier... 

    200px-15puzzle.jpg

    ... because in practice, the "effect" caption reflects the overall placement order with hardly a tile even one spot out of place.

    I was being snarky and more of a smart*** when I brought up Madison in 1999. Because the OP seems to be hung up on crowd response from 16 years ago. My apologies.

    Regarding your number/tile thing you posted, I hear you loud and clear. but here's the deal..........

    We (In General) need to keep it real. We say we want chaos in the numbers/placements/scores. But when it happens, we lose our freaking minds and it's Armageddon in this forum. We have had some regionals over the last few seasons where numbers were all over the place, and we saw people flipping out and calling out judges for their favorite corps finishing let's say 3rd overall, but 8th in a particular caption/subcaption for an example. 

    So basically, what we as fans are saying is............."Give us the scoring chaos with numbers and placements being topsy turvy................as long it doesn't happen to and/or affect the corps that I root for."

    • Like 1
  4. On 3/24/2024 at 8:27 PM, Jeff Ream said:

    however my take in 13 seeing them in Allentown was more people pulling for Crown and honestly just wanting someone new. 

    BD fatigue is probably top five biggest reasons for the hatred they receive. 

    And it's not a BD thing, it's anyone who has figured out the championship formula to consistently stay on top. 

    Society in general doesn't like dynasties...........unless it's the team/corps/player you root for lol. 

    I remember after the 2006 season, and hearing some people groaning about the Cavies winning again and wanting to see a new winner. Now it was nowhere near BD level of hate, not even in the same realm, but some were talking. 

    • Like 2
  5. 3 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

    engagement tho isn't as cut and dried as one thinks. geography can play a part. at say Crowns home show are the fans going to be more engaged for the hometown team? Sure! Should the judges solely feed off of applause? Nope. remember bringing the house down may not be universal at every stadium. Homerism is real

    Spot on Jeff.

    Example.....1999. Finals in Madison Wisconsin. 

    Scouts had a PHENOMENAL show that deserved and earned every applause it got. But you can tell they was feeding off homefield advantage, and they should have. They got loudest ovation of the night. So does that mean that they should have beaten BD/SCV? Or finished in front of the Cadets or Cavies? No they shouldn't have. 

    And that's not me bashing the Scouts for all the Madison fans out there. Jesus Christ Superstar is one of my top ten favorite shows of all time. 

    • Thanks 1
  6. 12 minutes ago, year1buick said:

    Thanks! I thought about Grumps, LOL, but I think we’re going with Grandad, though it’s a little daunting to think of. That’s what I called my mom’s father and he was one of the best men I’ve ever known. (WW2 Army captain with 4 Bronze Stars, knew how to do…well, everything, worked his ranch until the day he died at 90 years old.) But I’m honored to share the name and couldn’t be more excited. 
     

    I’ve also started joking with my daughter on when she’s going to start teaching her how to spin a flag! We were sooo close to her trying out for Regiment but the timing just didn’t work out. (Last summer would’ve been her rookout year.)

    Four Bronze Stars!!! Wow! Your Grandad was a certified BAD***!! Those are not easy to earn. Majority of people that got it, to include Silver Star recipients, normally don't talk about what they did to have earned it, and for a very good reason.

    Thank you for his service and sacrifice.

    • Like 1
  7. 28 minutes ago, BG984 said:

    2008 was probably the best example I can give........yes a bit further back, but one of the most blatant examples.....if I am wrong, watch the videos.........zero comparison between response for the top 2 corps, yet the one that received much, much less audience response actually won the caption, albeit by .05.  Perhaps "golf applause" was a harsh term........still, there have been times where a corps clearly won over the audience more than the others, yet was "shunned" by the effect judges..........you have already stated that you do not believe audience response should be a factor at all, so on that point, we can agree to disagree.

    2008? When MySpace was still a thing? 

    Fair enough. 

    But then again all of our kids that are performing today are doing 10lbs of s..t in a 5lbs bag according to you. So yes we can agree to disagree. 

  8. 1 hour ago, year1buick said:

    I became a grandfather a couple weeks ago, so I guess I’m officially a dino now too!

    Congrats brother and welcome to the Grandpa club! 

    My granddaughter turns three this Friday. 

    Are you going to go with traditional Grandpa, or have the grandchildren call you something else. My granddaughter calls me Pop-Pop. Makes me feel less old LMAO. 

    • Like 2
    • Haha 2
  9. 1 hour ago, BG984 said:

    Not exactly, but I do feel that audience response (and it is on the current sheets as "engagement") should be considered when judging effect...........I think that if a corps "brings the house down" at the end, with multiple standing ovations during their program, and another gets "golf applause", and a politely forced standing ovation only at the end, that perhaps the second group should not win effect..............

    And over the last ten years dating back to 2014, what corps won with a "golf applause", because I can't think of one. 

  10. 1 hour ago, KVG_DC said:

    brb.  Getting my movie stub collection to go collect some Oscars.

    I mean, I get that the creative collective is motivated by who buys tickets to be entertained by their productions.  But never have I had illusions that that I had a say in the 'outcome' of what determines 'excellence' in film beyond a right to spout my own 2¢ for people to ignore.

    As a paying customer, I nominate the coolest, yet most ridiculous and chessiest 80s movie of all time "Iron Eagle" for an Oscar. 

  11. 46 minutes ago, BG984 said:

    I actually caused a bit of a stir at a judge's conference.  The visual "guru" running things stated, "the judge must discern and determine what is "truly effective"".   My hand went up..."yes"......"truly effective.....to WHOM.....to me as a judge, or to the thousands of paid fans in the stands".  There was silence in the room, and the "guru" changed the subject within seconds.......

    So if I pay money to attend to a drum corps show, I should have a say in the outcome of the competition?

  12. 1 hour ago, greg_orangecounty said:

    I wish DCI would not schedule shows in San Bernardino.  Move it to Orange County where there are a myriad of safer municipal stadiums.  

    I've went to the San Bernardino show every year since 2018 when they moved the show RCC. Did something happen in particular? 

    True, San Bernardino the city IS NOT SAFE AT ALL! But if we are being honest, neither is Riverside where RCC is. 

    Exit RCC on the northwest side of the campus going up Magnolia Ave towards University Ave, you better pray you hit green lights. If you stop, your car might be on blocks by the time you hit the gas again lol.  

    • Like 1
  13. On 3/15/2024 at 9:43 AM, scheherazadesghost said:

    As a rookie in the guard, I was hanging onto that show design for dear life.

    From what I recall everyone else seemed to be as well. We all had to disregard everything we were hearing and hope the drum major and pit could somehow mitigate everything. Guard was not allowed to dut or count IIRC. Only a select few member leadership in battery and horns. Then there was bass 5 going rogue in the design, so beautiful. Love that guy.

    That first unison hit was always a huge relief cause we knew we had a better shot of syncing up. Then we landed at our first enclosed dome, Mile High I believe, and we all fried a few brain cells trying to reconfigure everything on the fly. That happened at every dome, cause the acoustics were always slightly different.

    If you look closely at the dna of anyone who marched that show, I'm pretty sure the music, drill and choreo is etched there permanently. Repping was the only way to sort of slay that beast.

    So I was lucky enough to meet someone who marched BD 2008-2009. I asked him about finals night 2008 and more importantly the corps attitude and motivation going into 2009. He said in hindsight (This convo happened in 2018), getting silver in 08 was the best thing that could have happened. He said going into the 09 season, there was talk of "Finishing" and not leaving it in the hands of the judges, to dominate from start to finish, to not let complacency set in, and perform every second every minute as if it's your last. The 2009 BD squad definitely used what happened the previous season to fuel and motivate them moving forward.

    I bring that up because you went thru something similar in Phantom passing you guys on finals night in 03, then you all comeback in 2004 with a monster of a show, kick some butt, and earn a well-deserved medal. What was the overall attitude of the corps after finals in 03, and going into spring training, was there any talk of using what happened the previous season as motivation? Did it make you guys hungrier, more focused to ensure that history did not repeat itself?

    Thanks in advance sister!

    • Like 2
  14. 1 hour ago, Terri Schehr said:

    I liked the show where they played Burt Bacharach songs.  The Godfather one.  Dance marathon.  I have no idea what years those were.

    There was one show last year that I didn’t care for (I loved BDlast year so it wasn’t them) but I sat politely and watched because they were really good and I respect the members. 

    If you went to a show with me and didn't know anything about me, you wouldn't know what corps I root for. I give every corps a standing ovation, regardless how I feel about the show, because I know how hard those kids work and I appreciate them giving up their summer to entertain idiots like me. 

    Mandarins were in direct competition with Cadets and Phantom last year. I was going bonkers and cheering for those corps just as much as I did Mandarins. 

    • Like 6
  15. 43 minutes ago, keystone3ply said:

    He'd need a second mortgage for the same 7 beers at Lucas Oil... :guinesssmilie:

    Brother, if you think Lucas Oil is expensive, I double dare you to go to Levi's Stadium (49ers home stadium) and order a bottled water, and watch two men wearing all black show up and escort you to the basement under the stadium so they can harvest your organs to pay for that water. 

    After going to tons of Niners games and dealing with those insane stadium prices, when we went to finals last summer and saw the Lucas Oil prices, my wife almost cried with how cheap they were. 

    • Haha 2
  16. 59 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

    I didn’t say anything about it except to Jim.  It just wasn’t my bag.  Of course, it was executed beautifully.  I certainly wouldn’t laugh at it.  I still remember the Madison crowd booing 91 Star.  That was disgusting. 

    I cant speak for the rest of BD fans, but personally I had zero issues with people that didn't care for a specific BD show or BD as a whole. We all have different taste and we like what we like. Besides, how boring would it be if we all liked the same thing?

    Where I took exception, was the people that made false accusations about BD cheating, having judges on the payroll etc. 

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1
  17. 59 minutes ago, Lance said:

    BD 2012 exuded excellence.  

    There isn't a theme a corps has done that isn't pretentious and silly even if it happens to be your personal favorite.  It's all just marching band that takes itself way too seriously.  People in crowds who try to make their opinion known to people around them are even more pretentious and silly.  Real weirdos.  Your opinion isn't that special no matter how many fellow weirdos get onboard with you. 

    Every finals I went to there have been people like that.  Every adult rolls their eyes and tries to ignore them.  

    Amen Brother! 

    Say it louder for the people in the back!

    • Like 2
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