old vanguard
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Posts posted by old vanguard
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I recall the St.Vincent's Cadets and long admired their competitiveness. I only saw them perform twice and thoroughly enjoyed their show.
A few questions:
1. What was the story of that amazing French horn section? What instruments were they playing? They really cut through. Chills.
2. I distinctly remember hearing them on an old scratchy recording playing "Mama Teach Me to Dance - ala Eydie Gorme." According to Corpsreps listings, I'm nuts.
3. In their concert number(s) they switched from a slower, more mellow piece to "Tropical Heat Wave." I think that I remember them also switching conductors from a male DM to a female CG sgt.
They had a long, successful run. The Jersey Jr. Corps were very competitive in those days. BSGK, Holy Name, and Vinnies were constantly fighting it out.
I have seen several good webpages on their record and their history. If anyone can fill in the blanks on Vinnies, I'd appreciate it.
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Always knew that DCI would ultimately bleed the activity dry and leave so many communities poorer.
The dearth of community-based D&BCs is no surprise.
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The Vanguard had dues of $1.00 per week plus $.25 per month for gloves. I think that our insurance was $12.00 per year. Tour money was banked with the corps and doled out as needed. Varied depending on tour schedule.
Corps operational expenses were paid by the Manhem-Vanguard Assn., who owned the corps.
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I thought that this forum was about Historical Jr Corps. Frankly I have very little interest in corps after about the late 1970s.
If I was interested in more modern bands, I would be a DCI follower.
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Excellent post. Thanks.
I have Getzen. Baritone in my collection, complete with an E attachment. It enables me to play along with a recording of Royal Airs "Over There" and the Cavaliers original (pre contra bass) "Bully." It's a fairly limited instrument, and is hard to play in tune, but it does have a few "magic" notes.
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The E rotary attachments were not allowed. I am well aware of F and F# rotaries, having played both of them at various times.
There were several corps who used t E rotaries on their bass baritones. Cambridge Caballeros, Cavaliers, Royal Airs, Geneva Appleknockers come immediately to mind.
I was a Mel Tierney, Skokie, Chicago, Lincolnwood Vanguard, and was on staff with the Des Plaines Vanguard.
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Overhyped, but a first rate corps. Their drum line was not great. As I recall, Illegal E rotary crooks on their bass baritones. This sounds like sour grapes, but their corps could never match their legend.
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Custers Brigade, and Spartans.
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I hadn't heard that Jim Donnelly was attributed with the invention of the French Horn bugle. Glad that the instrument was created. Always loved the sound.
Vinnies, from the mid-fifties, onward had a kick-a$$ FH section. I think that they fielded six of them. (as did BSGK I think)
Somewhere in my dimming past, I recall being told by an old-school Vanguard that St. Vincent's and a few other corps used specially made horns, which meant that they were not the Holton, Getzen, or other "standard-issue" instruments. Whatever the instruments that were used, they certainly projected, and were pretty well in tune. Unique sound.
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Are you kidding? Vinnies was one of the best corps in the nation for many years. Blessed Sacrament, Holy Name/Garfield and St. Vincent's were close competitors throughout the 1950s. St. Vincent's was one of the winningest Jr. corps in history.
I think that they folded in 1962 or '63.
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My copy of the Phantom Regiment DCI 2003 show has been damaged. No longer available on DCI website.
Anyone want to sell me one? PM me if interested.
Thanks
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In 1958 the Chicago Vanguard had a staff consisting of John LoBue, who arranged and taught the hornline, and Larry Lavita, who handled drums, drill and was manager. We were terrible and rehearsed a LOT that season. I don't know how those men were able to have personal lives. We were thankful for their dedication.
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10 hours ago, Tim K said:
I have an interesting connection to St. Mary’s Cardinals of Beverly. I am assigned as a priest at the parish that once sponsored the corps. In the mural in the dining room of the rectory there is a mural featuring a parade and the Cardinals are leading the pack. They have an alumni association that sponsors the Beanpot Invitational, on the grounds of the former Manning Bowl that is now Manning Field in Lynn. A great venue for high school sports, a bit cozy for those of us no longer the same size we were in high school. The proceeds of the show fund scholarships for one marching member from each competing corps as well as kids in music programs in Lynn and Beverly. They want to give back to say thank you for drum corps did for them. Class Act!
I had the pleasure of meeting Father John M. D'Arcy in 1965 when the Cardinals were in Chicago for VFW Nationals. They competed at the Des Plaines Vanguard show while there. He was a very bright, guy with a great sense of humor. I was impressed, and felt that the Cardinals had a first class Moderator.
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On 2/8/2019 at 4:04 PM, JeremyOwens said:
I am looking for a used g Euphonium to use this summer. Willing to buy/lease/rent one. I prefer a 3 valve but will consider a 2v (must be a silver or nickel finish).
Reply here or email me at jeremyof10ec@hotmail.com for faster responses.
5-18-19
I saw a Dynastry III Euph. for sale on Ebay this morning.
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On 5/9/2019 at 6:47 AM, OldSnareDrummer said:
Story about the Belleville Black Knights from that era. BK had always been the Cavaliers' bridesmaid for decades and finally in 1973 put a corps together capable of beating the Cavies, which coincided with a Cavalier down year during their 25th anniversary. Cavies' show was pretty bad, but BK's Crown Imperial, Get it On and Man from LaMancha won over the crowds and judges bigtime. In June when BK won Illinois VFW State, BK became the most arrogant, obnoxious corps ever and seriously thought their poop didn't stink. The MMs were all trash talkers when you'd see them around at other shows and would publically taunt the Cavaliers in front of anybody. I was in a small corps at the time and wasn't even that big of Cavaliers fan, but still thought geez, what a-holes these people were. Well, the Cavaliers didn't get much redemption as they failed to make DCI Finals. BK barely squeaked in by .1 over DeLaSalle in prelims which aggravated me even more. Then when they moved up to 10th over Argonne in finals, I thought I was going to have a stoke at age 16. To this day, if I ever run into a BK from 1973, I swear I'll let the air out of their tires. Not that I hold grudges.
The Cavaliers had a long history of taunting and demeaning the Black Knights. The two corps really hated each other. (Kinda like the Chicago Bears and the Greenbay Packers) The Cavaliers, over the years, were known for referring to the BKs as "hillbillys" and $hit-kickers." This lack of courtesy and respect earned them some push-back from BKs. IMHO
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Critter 1701, I knew that I wasn't the only one who was aware of these old instruments
I just bought one of the old Holton over the shoulder bass baritones. Brass finish, with case. It plays very well. It's pitched in G - D. No rotary valve.
It needs some TLC, but I'm enjoying it.
The USMC, Reilly Raiders, Milstadt Crusaders and Kankakee Lancers all used these - long ago.
RE: The horn you offer - Please PM me with particulars (pictures?) and asking price. Thanks.
PS The email address in my original (old) posting is no longer valid.
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I'm trying to locate sources for parts for repairing/restoring my collection of old, G baritone bugles. (Getzen DeLuxe and Titlest, Ludwig, and especially Holton 368.)
If you have parts or used G baritones available, or know someone who has them, please PM me with contact information.
Thanks,
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On 3/4/2019 at 7:38 PM, ajlisko said:
Tis' true ... Carman's disdain for DCI was very vocal and we'll publicized ... I seem to remember a lengthy op-ed he wrote for DCN expressing his views
And he was right.
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36 minutes ago, ajlisko said:
Was Hy still writing for them?
Dave Hill wrote their show. Mike Kumer did the percussion. Frank Pamper did the drill. Jim Unrath was the corps director.
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Des Plaines Vanguard placed 7th in 1972.
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Can anyone provide some history on St. Rose? It seems that they were only around for a couple of years.
I remember standing on the starting line watching them at Detroit VFW Nationals in 1960. We (Vanguards) were impressed.
They had that great Al Saia sound and a very open style drill. We particularly liked their arrangement of "Song of India."
I may be wrong on this, but I think that Jerry Shelmer was their drum instructor.
Anyhow, where did they come from? Why did they break up? Where did their membership go?
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13 hours ago, ironlips said:
I had never heard that anecdote. What a great story!
The Cambridge Cabs were a very progressive group. I think I wore out 2 or 3 copies of the 1960 LP, "Horns Aplenty" which features a cover photo of the corps performing an outdoor concert at the band shell.
The great Al Saia wrote the brass book, Don Benedict, the drum charts. Prince's Scotty Chappell scripted the drill. Their version of Maleguena set the standard for all the others that followed.
Mr. Saia also wrote for the St. Rose Scarlet Lancers and St. Mary's Cardinals. He had an interesting style. His use of harmony sopranos was unique. Sort of haunting.
In 1961-1962 (I think) I heard that he was using some baritones with soprano mouthpieces. He voice them like mellophones.
An innovative and very talented guy.
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On 12/6/2017 at 6:13 AM, KeithHall said:
First to play Contras? Mellophones?
First theme show? Was it Garfield Cadets? Madison Scouts? Cavaliers?
The best 1st year corps ever....Star of Indiana?
Who would be your first call as music arranger? Brass boss? Percussion boss? Visual Boss? Guard Boss? Corps Director?
(if you could pick the ALL STAR staff)
The best corps manager I ever had the pleasure of working with was Jim Unrath, of the Des Plaines Vanguard. A great organizer, cheerleader, facilitator, musician and all around exceptionally intelligent guy. Great sense of humor too.
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John Thirion arranged for and instructed the Des Plaines Vanguard drum line in 1968 and 1969. He was an acoustic engineer by training. John also spent a lot of time working with the engineers at Ludwig Drum. He and Hy Dreitzer collaborated numerous times trying to work the tympanis and other tuned drums into his arrangements.
Interesting times for the Des Plaines Vanguard members and staff.
Discussion
in Historical Junior Corps Discussions
Posted
The Skokie/Chicago/Des PLaines Vanguard was a gang-with instruments in the late fifties and early sixties. Several near-rumbles with other midwestern corps during that period.