shostahoosier

Whoah...talk about "articulating better". First of all, why are you only talking about the top marching bands when discussing diversity? Anyway, marching bands tend to be more diverse than drum corps because 1) There are fewer barriers to entry, and 2) Audiences are willing to appreciate vastly different performance styles. If you "read what I wrote", you'll see that I did respond to your comment and said pretty much everything I needed to say.

I'm from Chicagoland and growing up knew all about Madison, Rockford, and Rosemont, but would never have heard of Bergen County, NJ had it not been for that Cadets of Whatever they were calling themselves at the moment. George Hopkins was completely spot on when he complained that the Cadets werent being recognized for the attention they brought to the already glamorous Garden State.

Can you point out where I "called out everyone for being close-minded and unaccepting"? I said that I was really surprised by some of the comments being posted in this topic, and that it makes me question how inclusive this activity wants to be. I felt the need to come back and break down what I posted earlier because you're right, you're not the only person with reading comprehension issues....which is while I'll keep asking "did you read what I wrote?"... Dont be shocked if I dont lose any sleep over perceived loss of credibility on DCP. This I cant disagree with....but then again some of the elitist posts I've seen in this specific thread are giving me doubts. To clarify MY stance....I dont think drum corps should create some rule that forces corps to recruit for the sake of diversity, but I think there are things that could be done to help grow interest in areas that corps either havent tapped or have forgotten about. This activity is becoming so elitist. Get over yourselves. Have fun! I like how DCA has the Alumni Spectacular. Corps dont perform shows like that any more but there are still plenty of people that want to see those types of performances. The corps plays songs that people are familiar with and perform shows that are accessible even to people who dont follow the activity My mom is pretty ignorant to DCI, but the alumni corps was always her favorite performing unit in our local, annual drum corps show. Imagine that, an entire show where drum corps can show up and entertain with a lower level of talent, commitment and fees. My home state now has a corps style competition and a show style for marching bands. I think that's great and so do the performers. Has anyone ever considered that there are some people out there who are willing to put in the blood, sweat, and tears just for the chance to travel a few times AND hear a crowd enjoy their performance? Making DCI accessible to more performers doesnt really have to be complicated. I would love to believe that corps budgets are pragmatic, but we all know about the arm's race Gasoline and housing fees alone havent caused Open Class corps fees to almost quadriple in the past 10-15 years. I posted in another thread how a friend of mine who marched the Scouts in 2002 was shocked to learn that his corps fees were going to be tripled for the next summer. Seeing as how the latest energy crisis was still some 18 months away, what do you think happened? And I'm pretty sure that Mr. Stewart left the Scouts pretty sound financially.

I guess you didnt read what I wrote either....

Give ME a break. Did you even read what I wrote? And if you look around, marching bands in high school are much more diverse than DCI (then again so are marching band shows), so if you are measuring it as a "subset", (I'm not) then fail there. The price of gasoline peaked in 2008 and dropped dramatically. Its has risen again slowly but adjusted for inflation...its about the same people were paying in the early 80s. I dont see corps fees decreasing though...but I do continue to see longer national tours, new uniforms, electronics equipment, crazy props and fancy "designers". I would tell corps the same thing I would tell a friend if they constantly needed money for gas: "Dont drive so much". I didnt make any mention of "balance". I dont think that DCI needs to "even out" its demographics, but I think there are things that could done to attract more people. That's the point I'm getting at...so you can slowly back away from your "affirmative action argument" trigger. thanks!

I'm really saddened and quite shocked by many of the ideas posted in this thread. I thought DCI was more open minded and accepting of minorities (woman, ethnicity, homosexuals, even handicapped!) but now I wonder... Anyway, if anything I think the activity is moving away from what little diversity it had thanks to rapidly rising corps fees (you know it cant ALL be attributed to "gasoline prices") and boring art house shows. If the status quo is fine for you, so be it...but dont be surprised at dwindling interest and rising ticket prices to make up for it.

This really isnt the case. Kids who want to march with the big corps usually end up not marching at all if they dont get the corps they wanted. I also have been at meetings with show organizers who have considered (and some actually have) cancelling a show if they dont have a major corps, as in top 5 or top 3.

These are shows that I think people overlook or dont give love to. There are plenty of other shows I like, but they usually get plenty of recognition. Cadets of Bergen County 1991 (ABCs of Modern American Music) Santa Clara Vanguard 1991 (Miss Saigon) Star of Indiana 1992 (American Variations) - greatest.hornline.EVER! Magic 1995 (Danse Animale) Carolina Crown 1995 (Stormworks) Crossmen 1995 Bluecoats 1995 (Homefront: 1945) Santa Clara Vanguard 1995 (Not the Nutcracker) Phantom Regiment 1995 (Adventures Under a Darkened Sky) Velvet Knights 1996 (Magical Mystery Tour in Space) (Great show....their last in World Class too...for now ) Colts 1996 (Magnificat) (THIS SHOW SHOULD HAVE BEEN AT LEAST 8TH!) Cadets of Bergen County 1996 (The American West) Blue Devils 1996 (Club Blue: A Gangster Chronicle) (I think this show is often overshadowed by the "tie", but it's one of my top 3) Nite Express 1996 (A Knight's Tail) (Insane hornline!) Madison Scouts 1997 (Pirates of Lake Mendota) Blue Knights 1998 (Masters of the Symphony) Phantom Regimen 2000 (The Masters of Mystique) Santa Clara Vanguard 2001 (New Era Metropolis) Phantom Regiment 2001 (Virtuoso) Crossmen 2002 (The Signature Series) I actually cant go on...there are just too many to mention

I think the point is that it COULD be the way and SHOULD be closer to it, but the way the judging system works right now, it seemingly isnt. Judges shouldnt "leave room" for corps that are performing later. They should judge corps by clearly defined criteria.

No...what makes your posts bizarre are your comments which show a gross lack of insight, yet you spread them as gospel. I also dont think you stopped bothering Madison because they changed...I think you did so because a real physical person contacted you. This board would be so much more civil if people werent able to hide behind their computer.

This whole thread had been..."interesting", but this is one of the most bizarre posts I've ever come across. RE: Star, it seems like everyone else was really happy about their performance. Either way, do you avoid every alumni performance because of this fear? Either way, Star was only around for about 10 years, but Brass Theater and Blast Alumni were included too. I have a friend who's only experience with the group is Star United and she was even allowed to perform that night. I dont understand how you just "knew it was going to be a big dissapointment". Epic fail in insight on your part. As for Pioneer, I have a hard time believing that a change in their uniforms or the church stance will do any good. Are you aware of some of the hazing that STILL occurs in World Class corps? I would gladly choose church over some of the things I saw the less fortunate members get "ordered" to do by vets...and this wasnt even 10 years ago. As for Pioneer's alumni...they've been around for almost 50 and they've been an open class corps for about 13 years, so I'm sure there are alumni out there that could get things moving. That's what it took for the Blue Stars. I dont understand why this topic has to be so mean. And what about the other corps that rarely, if ever, make semi-finals? Why has there been no dissection of their shortcomings?

I know of another finalist corps that was put up in a nice resort (though not necessarily hotel rooms) in DISNEY WORLD in 1997 when their housing fell through. The corps director pretty much told DCI that either they could find them housing or they could have the corps not come to finals and DCI complied. I wonder if DCI would do the same for a corps not in the top 17 though...

I dont know if changing the game is the same as monopolizing it for personal gain...

While I dont disagree that Phantom Regiment has had some design issues in the past, this answer is a cop out in my opinion. Could you be specific? There's a difference between saying "the whole brassline was off" and saying "the middle section had some timing issues in the ballad". Either way, Phantom Regiment's visual problems seemed to have been solved in the mid-2000s (well at least for 2005 and 2006) when they finished 3rd in finals (overall visual). I dont know what happened that they decided to move backwards (though they finished 3rd in visual in 2008 I believe). Maybe this year is a building year for their visual program. If you dont recall, the Cavaliers used to have a relatively weak hornline until the folks at the top got tired of it being their achilles heel....now their hornline is one of the top, but the change definitely didnt happen overnight...it took a few years.

The Cavaliers shows always have great visuals...but that "Samurai" show was sterile!

I think the quality in open class corps is diminishing but I think it has less to do with the World Class corps going to 150 (few of those kids would have marched Open Class anyway) and more to do with the better Open Class corps moving to Open Class and not being replaced. A lot of corps came and went but Pioneer, Blue Stars, Mandarins, Spartans, East Coast Jazz and a few others were usually pretty consistent in Div II/III finals. These corps were pretty stable too...and wouldnt suffer from "flash in the pan success"-syndrome (ala Revo, Memphis Sound). There were more corps of course (Academie Musicale, Capitol Sound, Ventures, Patriots, etc.) that were often in the hunt too. Now it seems like a majority of corps in Open Class are small startups building their bases. It may take a while for Open Class to recover...but it needs to worry about surviving first.

I think because it has to do with more than corps size. There were several Div II corps that had 128 members back in the late 90s and they were pretty good, they just didnt want to deal with the competition or full tour of Division I. Of course, most of the stronger Div II/III corps marched full tours anyway (the last summer I marched Div III we had 35 shows!). Personally I really liked scoring all the corps on the same sheets. It was fun to see how you stacked up against the big corps. My Div III corps once missed beating a semi-finalist corps (14th place the previous year) by 4/10ths of a point! Now THAT was motivating!

Sorry...just wanted to say early, I agree with your sentiments about the Blue Stars upping their game...but they have NEVER been mediocre open class contenders. The Cadets and the Blue Devils are the Blues Stars and Mandarins of World Class respectively (or were when the two latter corps were in Div II/III).

LOL...I was actually going to say that but this was about finals so I just kept it the top 12...but I think you're right though...and scoring accuracy gets even worse in Open Class, it was one of the reasons why I joined a "top" corps...because I hated the fact that the judges gave us the same score in mid-August that they gave us in early-July...it was like the performance just didnt matter.

I would say at the end of the year that a lot of more corps should be closer to 90 than the judges allow (remember 1992 anyone...now that was a year!) but it probably wont happen. It's almost as if your performance on finals night doesnt matter if you're in the 10-12 because the judges are only worried about leaving room for the top.

Any chance she'll be making a cameo in Phantom Regiment's show this summer?

Thats why I never used to count out Boston back in the day

Oh...that I can agree with. The days of $500 corps fees are long gone. As for staff, I dont know, I'm all about freedom for competitions sake...but the most successful corps in history looks to be keeping it local

Haha...I guess they technically count. I am a big fan of the CC "Stormworks" show too. Some of it was a little simple and rough around the edges but I found it really entertaining. I think the opener was stuck in my head for that entire season. 1995 was a good year top to bottom.

Then dont take any angle. Take your own advice and chill. And I'll take your advice enjoy drum corps the way I want...that is, by letting the kids who arent in "the best corps" know that I appreciate the work they do and that I'm glad their participation gives an activity to debate over.