jwillis35

Very nice podcast to all involved. Well done, insightful, and respectful. I enjoyed listening to that. Thanks!

I think the current oldest WC drum corps is Madison Scouts (1938). Not sure if there were any inactive years for Madison but in terms of the year they were founded they would be the oldest now.

The Cadets in 1990 were super clean. Very mature show. Subtle, musical, artistic, and the sheer definition of professional playing and marching. That was a tough competitive year. I believe 6 corps all won regionals that season. Top 7 or 8 shows were all fantastic. Cavaliers and Star of Indiana were nothing short of amazing and championship caliber. Not to mention Blue Devils fabulous Tommy show. Phantom and SCV were also outstanding. It took until about a week and a half before finals that it looked like The Cadets might be the lead dog heading into Allentown and then Finals. Great season and one that I will always remember, and on top of it all was that brilliant Cadets show.

Good point. You'd probably have to allow OC to be 14-21 Let WC be 18-22 (23). If you're 17 but will be 18 before May 1 then you can march, and if you turn 23 anytime after May 1 you can still march I'm not sure any of this stops the issues with predators, idiots, or even with bullying, hazing and many other issues. What it could do is really help OC corps in growth and popularity. And though the age limit for OC could be 21 I think most of the kids would be in the range of 15-17. It takes a great amount of oversight and knowledge to work with groups where the age range can be from 14-21.

Sorry. Accidental repost.

I don't think it will happen, but if it did I would not cry. Part of me thinks that might be good. I've not been a fan of the "Association" model for governance (directors of the corps run the show). I think we need something new with a real vision for the future.

I think Crossmen should do something like this. Maybe change the title to "From Pennsylvania to Texas, We're Still Here." Or maybe (and I think you know the song) "We're Still Havin' Fun...and We're Still the One."

I think your opinion here is very valid and I imagine this is how many Cadets alumni and many volunteers feel. This is probably how they should feel. My heart says "NO no no no, I don't want to lose this historic corps!" But my head says it was time for Garfield/The Cadets to be put to rest. Just too many lawsuits, too many mistakes, too many victims. There were likely going to be more lawsuits. The damage by a director, a puppet board, and perhaps a few others was too much for too long. Too many people were harmed by the supposed "adults" in the room. Too many victims...and those victims deserve praise for coming forward and they deserve justice and help. If that means the corps goes away then so be it. As others have said it is complicated because we will miss the shows and all the hard work of the marchers and volunteers and the teachers who did things the right way. We will miss the history. But it was time. Pains me to say it...but it was time. The "adults" in the room had chance after chance and chance to make things right. The SHIP SUNK!!! Too many leaks and a few torpedo shots. In the end the damage from 1982-2017 was too much.

I agree and I think that's how most of us viewed him.

Good luck to Carolina Crown this year. Love them just about every year and I am sure I will love this year's show.

I've been too sad to really consider reflecting on shows and music that I have loved over the years from Garfield. We all knew this was going to happen. I'm going to echo what some others have said: the 2021 exhibition year show stands out to me. Not because it was the best show Garfield/The Cadets ever performed. Far from it. But it was that last reminder of what it felt like to watch the Maroon & Gold take the field. Those traditional uniforms. The fact that they gave us some of those goosebump moments from past shows and they sounded pretty good doing it. Watching the crowd in Indianapolis just absolutely go freakin' nuts at the company front in the Land Race (From Far & Away) was not only amazing to see but in some ways felt like the crowd knew instinctually that we may not see this anymore. Even though the corps managed to compete in 2022 and 2023 I think many knew it was going to be difficult for The Cadets to move forward. That company front is perhaps the last truly magical Cadets moment we will ever experience. The 2022 and 2023 shows were excellent, but the sight of the traditional uniforms and the pomp & circumstance of that company front with the heroic music of John Williams basically summed up what I used to love about this corps. I believe that singular memory may be imprinted in the minds and hearts of many as we grieve the loss of an iconic, historic, and great American drum & bugle corps. I continue to feel for all the good people who marched, volunteered, and taught with Garfield.

This is a good question. I didn't know him personally and heard all kinds of rumors about him, none of which I can backup. To me he was a strange guy. I do not believe he was a business person with a degree in business or management. He seemed more philosophical especially when you would read some of his posts. It seems clear he was a perverted guy who couldn't stop himself from harassing, flirting, and molesting women. The one story that was told by a staff member for YEA who went to the DCI meetings with him (where she wanted to go on her own, stay in her own room, etc) and he forced her to stay in his room is disgusting. He basically rapes this young lady. This is the behavior of a narcissist who thinks the laws don't apply to him. He had no concern for other human life as long as they were doing what he wanted. He wanted to be seen as a God, a figure of high popularity and power. There were rumors that he had attended EST seminars (Erhard Seminars Training). I can't verify that and it's probably not true; but his actions and narcissism made you think it could have been true. "Various critics accused est of mind control or of forming an authoritarian army; some labeled it a cult." - Taken from the WIKI page on Est. At any rate the job he had could have been a fantastic job but he ruined it, abused his power, and made the gig more about him than the corps, the kids, etc.

I will definitely take your word for it. You were closer to what went on, or at least had better insight. I guess I was never impressed with YEA. I knew GH had burned bridge after bridge...but you are correct that the USSBA (and eventually USBands) was a money maker.

Thanks. Yes, I forgot Boston. So Madison, Boston, and Cavaliers. Is that it for the corps that are left from the 20s, 30s, and 40s?

This is very true. In some ways you might say the Garfield Cadets were lucky to not have folded in the late 70s or early 80s. Being one of the older corps they were never setup for modern drum corps travel, education, and funding like many non-profits were that began in the 70s, 80s, or 90s (and this is not to say those groups were all setup perfectly either). The Cadets were essentially a church corps established for parades. Like many neighborhood corps of the 1920s, 30s, and 40s most of those groups do not exist today. I'm not sure if Madison and Cavaliers are the only two left. I don't think Racine Scouts are around anymore...or are they? But there is a reason most corps that were founded in the early 20th Century are no longer around. What kept them afloat (Garfield)? It was not GH as some might say (despite all his criminal behavior off the field). I think they got lucky that Zingali, Sylvester, Hannum, and Jim Prime Jr came in and designed some shows (with the creative help from Cesario) that pushed the activity forward. This brought them popularity and brand name and many of the older alumni started giving again. This is what really saved them temporarily...the alumni/fans/donors and the instructional team. And even with GH robbing Peter to pay Paul (cooking the books) they managed to thrive in donor contributions and also changes in instrument deals and other spnsorships. YEA never really panned out to be the "educational" org they said it would be. To me it was more a front for money collection. But by 2017 and 2018 -- when everything comes to light with GH and others -- we all knew that should have been the knockout punch. As much as my heart is bleeding due to the loss of an iconic and historic drum corps my head says this is the way it has to be. They had chance after chance after chance to make changes. They lacked the whistle blowers who may have known what was going on and who should have stepped up back in the 80s, maybe even the late 70s, and put a stop to the methods of operation and people within (no matter how high their rank) who were commiting crimes and/or who were engaged in behaviors not conducive to safety, education, and a positive learning environment. The Garfield Cades were one of the few corps that somehow crossed the divide between the early days of drum corps in America (the neighborhood corps, Scouts groups, CYO, AL, and VFW days) to modern DCI days; BUT...that transition was frought with error that would make it difficult for them to last unless someone with real forsight and a progressive look at education, funding, safe travel, community involvement and real purpose were to redefine the corps mission statement and not just the design of a show. So even without the criminial ongoings of the corps' leader it was always going to be difficult for a corps from 1934 to navigate the modern DCI environment.

I agree with you. I think it's time we all just say our goodbyes. All we have left are the memories of the great shows and the tremendous work put forth by the alumni of the corps who gave us so many wonderful performances. It's a sad day in Drum Corps History. 😞

Sigh...I've seen many drum corps fold over the years. But this one is a real heart breaker. Thanks for the memories, Garfield Cadets. Where ever the winds blow me until that last day I will always remember watching the Maroon & Gold take the field over the decades. It was an honor to see this corps live. Many thanks to all the alumni out there who worked so hard and thrilled audiences all over the nation. The memories this corps gave us will last a lifetime and then some. Peace!

One thing to take note of is the popularity of the show. DCI fans tend to go with their heart. In recent years (2014, 15, 17, 19, 22, 23 - their last 6 titles) Blue Devils have generally been more positively received...even with their many DCI championships. So it isn't always the fatigue factor. If the show is popular and entertaining and still performed to that unmistakeable level of BD polish you will often here people say things like "boy I'd like corps X to have a shot this year but BD is really good and I love the show." I think that describes Blue Devils over the past 7 or 8 competitive seasons. The dislike for BD from 2008 - 2013 had more to do with the shows being unconvential, contemporary, risky, and certainly not as popular with the audience (except for 2011 from a musical standpoint). Even when people used the BD fatigue excuse (and maybe some of that was true) I always felt it had more to do with the shows. I give BD credit. From 2008 to 2013 they pulled off some extremely difficult and risky concepts. With the exception of 2011 the rest of those shows felt like works for a museum where professors sit around smoking their pipes and cigars discussing the intracacies of music theory and visual art. This is especially true with 2008, 2010, and 2012-2013. I liked them but to varying degrees. I knew most DCI fans would find them odd...hence the golf claps they received over the summer. So was it really fatigue? DId people want other corps to win because BD wins a lot? As you said that is always going to be the case to some extent because we love to see Dynasties fall. Whether it's the Celtics, Lakers, Patriots, Yankees, etc. Fans do like variety. But I think 2008-2013 simply had a lot of people not connecting with the shows.

Everyone's perspective will be different too. From my vantage point Blue Devils got quite a bit of love from the crowd all three nights in 2011. Visually they were clean and crisp but perhaps the visuals just didn't add up to what the music was giving us. They were honestly my 3rd favorite corps of each night after Cadets and Crown. I loved the 2011 music book and still do. Love that brass line despite them getting a somewhat (by BD standards) lower score than what I thought they would have had. But the sound and blend of that brass line was fantastic.

My vote would have been for Star of Indiana 93, but I can certainly see 1989 Phanton Regiment as the winner. The show was an absolute treat from day one. I saw them in mid June in Ohio and it was just so obvious they were going to contend if not win. Thanks for posting the tournament.

Fellinieque is without doubt the best performed show I've ever seen. It's pretty darn entertaining too. It may not be my most favorite entertaining show but in terms of overall performance it is the BEST I've ever seen from a drum corps. From the wicked opening fanfare to the gorgeous ballad, the carnival-like music, to the grand closer the entire music book was a masterpiece by Wayne Downey in his final year arranging for the A corps. The percussion writing to Wayne's arrangements is just stellar. The visual program and the guard design...I mean it's all just brilliantly done and performed. With DCI continuing to move toward shortened seasons I am not sure we will ever see something this polished again.

Good analogy. This is very true of the top 12, top 15 corps. The music books are difficult. The visual programs are advanced. Recruiting is on a national level. Many of the top 12 corps are 75% or more college kids.

Very true. First let me say I love what Bluecoats are doing. It's kind of getting back to what the original Bluecoats were formed for when they were operated by the Canton Police Boys Club. In regard to your comment I totally agree. Certainly over time drum corps was bound to change. I don't think the changes were done in some mean-spirited kind of way to exclude kids, minorities, and those who were less fortunate. It was more of an organic change that just happened due to many converging forces. Everything from rising costs, public school expansion in the Arts, more access to other types of activities, new laws on travel and insurance, and even the competitive direction and innovations of drum corps and band which required different skill sets that contributed to the costs and the exclusion of some from the activity. Competition itself can change a lot of things. You need kids with more music training and who have the physical abilities to perform the more demanding and innovative shows. That competitive push forces others to follow suit. Drum corps went from being local and regional to Marching Music's Major League on a global basis. The best of the best if you will. The performers and performances are fabulous but can only be done by corps with experienced musicians and physically-abled marchers. For many who do not have good local band programs -- or none at all, and who live in communities where these opportunities are limited or do not exist -- why would they bother auditioning for a corps that is looking for talented college kids? Consider that many of these shows are complicated and filled with music that requires the sensibilities and desire to learn complicated repertoire of this nature (Classical, Romantic, Contemporary, Jazz, New Age and on and on) that one gets from a good music education. It's nice to know that many of these organizations are taking a serious look at what their purpose should be. It's going to take money, but more local involvement in the community and more inclusion and diversity can only be seen as a positive for music/visual arts education and for drum corps.

I have said this for many years about Blue Devils. Having the B and C corps, the Diabalo Wind Band, their music lesson program, Special Needs Guard, BD entertainment drum lines and guard stuff, and other educational clinics and projects that they run locally and around the state help them keep plenty of local/regional youth involved with the corps. That brings in local parents/volunteers who want to help with a range of things. They are well respected in their community. Years ago I was looking at one of the Concord, CA chamber of commerce websites and one of the first things you saw in the video they had posted was of Blue Devils. Yes, the A corps is a nice luxory but you are correct that it's all the other local things they do that keep them funded because they get lots of help from local people who love what they bring to the community. This is something many corps have not built, including The Cadets...sadly. I know they tried with YEA; and while I do not have all the answers I have heard they burned too many bridges...and of course they kept moving the corps and burning more bridges.

I wish I had seen Anaheim Kingsmen in 1972 or 1974. Some people I know in the activity have said the 1974 corps was really paramount in pushing the activity forward in show design and musical arranging. Garfield Cadets 1984 at Finals. Saw them in Canada and Upstate NY that summer but really wanted to see the show at finals. Madison Scouts at Finals in 1988. I saw them early in Whitewater and knew then they would be top 5 when cleaned. Saw them again in Morgantown, WV in early August. They lost to Garfield Cadets by .1, but it was after that show that I felt they would very quickly wave "bye bye" to Garfield and push into the top 3. I really felt Garfield was a top 4 corps, even though scores were all over the place that summer; so with Madison closing in I had a feeling they could be top 3 -- but I wasn't sure they could beat BD or SCV. Really wanted to be in Kansas City for Finals. Phantom Regiment 2008 - did not see much in 2008 but to be there live would have been a treat. That crowd just erupted.