madsop75

These are my feelings..I'm sure plenty of you think I'm full of it. To be honest I dont' really care. I have my reasons which are very personal and probably not what most folks would think of for me feeling the way I do. I'm proud - very VERY proud- of what my brothers have been able to do with the vehicle given to them. They are performing the heck out of it. I'm just not sold on what "it" is. CM <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Scout9193, If I may be so bold as to say, No brother, you’re not full of it! I find it a very difficult thing at times to explain to one trying to understand the Scouts while they're trying to make judgments from the outside looking in. It's compounded sometimes when our comments are furthermore interpreted as being arrogant. What can I say, I plead guilty to being taught a take no prisoners attitude while marching with the Scouts! I like the fact that a show should leave me as an emotional basket case. I'll give you some of my more recent favorites, The Cossack Brotherhood, The Pirates of Lake Mendota, Jesus Christ Superstar and 2001 was a phenomenal book. For me, these aforementioned shows are the types of Madison programs that I point to and say, look, if you want to know what I'm talking about, give those years a listen. I and you could mention so many others but the point being, we know what a Madison show should be, it's in our DNA. When I go to long without that fix, well, it aint pretty! I’m heartened that there are those that are getting something from this year’s program. Again, I'm sorry, but I was wrecked and emotionally scared by something greater and gall darn it all, I want it back!!!! Sincerely, Madsop75

BigBadMadMan, Your points are well taken and if you are currently on tour as the equipment driver you have a front row seat on the day to day activities that the rest of us can only speculate on. I have some questions that I'm sure many others are wondering about. Such as, when I marched it was practically unheard of to do much in the way of changes this point in the season. Sure, maybe some tweaking but nothing major to "mess with our heads". Is there word of rewrites or just minor fare? The 64 thousand dollar question, what about the ending? Is there talk about the lack of crowd response? Is there any work on the over all continuity of the show to address the "cut and paste" choppiness or segmentation? Has the guard been given any further equipment work or will they remain primarily dancers? If you feel that you cannot talk via this forum would you feel better giving out your email address and I will email you personally with the guarantee of anonymity and not to post in kind? (If you can’t trust a brother, who can you trust?) Also, I'm curious as to the overall state of mind of the guys. Whets the talk, is everyone pretty positive? Sincerely, Madsop75

Heather (aka, cuppycakes) It is commendable that you feel the need to defend your own flesh and blood. But really now, "bashing all the hard work"? Maybe you are referring to a different message board. Do you want to only imagine you read certain things or have you not read all of the praise for what the Scouts have accomplished this year? If you are saying that we should not discuss the merits of the Scouts history, philosophy, program, competition so on and so forth but rather we all hold hands and sing kum-bi-ya. Count me out! You want to talk about pride and accomplishment then amen sister! And by the way, I did work my but off, but now; most of it seems to have returned. Sincerely, Madsop75

The only conclusion I can draw from this data is today's Madison -whatever you might think of the show's content as well as those who judge it - is scoring about where Madison scored in the good old days. Huh? HH <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Glory, Your math skills are astounding (appreciation!) and I echo your point! Again, it should be very clear to all that the Scouts have rebounded nicely from several years ago. In response to others, I don’t know if their show has “maxed” out. From my observation (again, it pains me) compared to what the Scouts are known for, this particular rendition leaves the Madison aficionado wanting and somewhat empty. What can I say; I’m jaded and spoiled rotten!! Sincerely, Madsop75

Glory, Somehow the assumption is that I want the 75' or the 95' Scouts to retake the field and vwala! And this seems to be an abounding assumption that when an alumn from Madison talks about his corps he's somehow caught in a time warp and needs to "get with the program"! If you’re saying that it's impossible for Madison to entertain the "Madison way" and not remain competitive via improvement in all aspects of their performance then indeed it is a sad day! And to your question of "what if a 95"? I can’t speak for others, but if you’ve read any of my earlier posts it should be evident that the underlying issue pertains to Madison's overriding philosophy of entertaining with excellence. I for one still believe that from a program standpoint, Madison’s best days are ahead of them and the Scouts will be rewarded for their efforts. Jimmy Elvord used to say "do the job, get the mark"! We live in a different world today. Sincerely, Madsop75

Masterfitter, Either you didn’t read my original post or I have failed to explain my points. And where in the world you find me calling into question the desire or "want to" by the 05' Scouts again leaves me wondering what your smoking?? Did you not read my compliments to the contrary?? Did you not read my comments as to there successes this year and how improvement is rampant?? Do you not have the ability to make the distinction between "having the talent but not having the show?" The overriding statement is this, Big Improvements! They’ve got the Horses!, They just aint got the show that so many hoped and believed they had this year. It's good but it didn’t deliver the home run that many were expecting. That’s It! How you quantify that into a personal attack toward the guys in the corps is beyond me. Now you can continue on and believe in some further conspiracy theory on my part and that I some how want to attack my own or as you state earlier, drag Scott Stewart into this (which is proof again that you couldn’t have read my earlier posts). And yes, unless you mean something other then my involvement over the past several very hard years, I am very acquainted as to "what it took" to get back to where the boys are today. Sincerely, Madsop75

Glory, And I suppose 2 former championships and consistently in the top 6 was a fluke or aberration? Here is where the inaccuracies or misconceptions begin to surface. It is assumed that if "today" Madison does their type of show that somehow equates to nothing visual, poor execution, no guard etc. It’s assumed that the Madison of old couldn’t win today. The Madison of old was not only about performance but of doing "everything" with excellence! Here in lies where Madison of several years ago lost their way but now seems to have righted the ship. As an alumni, I want the "full" package back and then to answer your question, yes, I want the latter and I know the "former" is absolutely possible! Sincerely, Madsop75

ssorrell, I'll try to clarify. You are correct. I purposely mention aspects of competition and use the aforementioned terms "out of gas" because these are words and measuring sticks that others are using (and oh, by the way, if you hadn’t noticed, they do keep score). My motivations though are much more in line with the poster just previous to you. There's always been a philosophy in the Madison camp (at least I believe it’s still present) that if we do what we do best, ala, a Madisonesque show that all is well! The crowd has always been the biggest barometer by which Madison and others measure. There are other aspects though that began to weaken within the halls of Madison; technique, execution and design to mention a few. I believe that over the past several seasons that these areas have begun to be addressed. Again, I'm simply addressing those disappointed individuals who think that every time Madison takes the field for a new season that THIS IS IT! This is the show for the ages! My feeling from the very early on was and is that this Madison program is not up to Madison defined standards (at least past standards) and actually seemed like a huge departure! If this needs further clarification, I'm happy to indulge but I hope this helps. Sincerely, Madsop75

Ok, I asked a couple of days ago with “0” response but I’m forced to ask again! No matter how much you believe the Scouts have improved this year, the word on the street is that they have fallen into a repeated, insidious funk called “Augustis Peakith” (translation, inability to finish the year strong come August) I’m hearing all sorts of theories bantered about but as I see it, with most issues its nothing more then speculation and armchair quarterbacking! Here’s how I call it. I’ve been quite close to the Madison Scouts for most of my adult life. I marched with the Scouts for 10 years (junior and senior). I’ve experienced the highest of highs and the absolute depths with my brothers. From the very beginning of this season (05) starting with winter camps it was easy to see that the Scouts were going to be vastly improved in every area of the corps. Now, I’m a horn guy that always sat on the drum bus because I’ve always been enthralled by percussion and to top it off I love watching the precision of guard practice! So when it comes to evaluating drum corps I kind of think of myself as a Renaissance Man. I was very impressed by this new mammoth horn line but was left wondering why 72 horns still couldn’t pump out the volume of 64?? (The old B vs. G debate and a discussion for another day) One of the most striking things was how much improved the percussion sounded and looked, I mean, it was very evident that these guys came to play with a new attitude. When I watched the guard and saw “the girl” the jig was up! After breathing in and out of a paper bag for about 10 minuets, I got over it and realized, hey, there’s actually something like 30 guys here in the middle of winter that are dancing, spinning and tossing. It hasn’t been this way for, I don’t know, like forever!!! (Remember a concept called X-Men?) So I’m thinking, this is really looking cool! I’m feeling pretty jazzed! Well usually about this stage of the game though I claim I’m from the “Show Me State” (Missouri) Call it age, call it gray hair but one thing I tend to carry in my pocket as I grow older is a little devise called the “Hype Meter”. Well I’ve got to tell you that the shtick that was oozing from those rehearsals was nothing short of brilliance coming forth from Michael C. Here’s the best way I can sum it up. The more I listened to the complete book the more conflicted I was becoming. For me, it was a battle between the hype and what I was hearing. I kept on asking myself, is it just me??? What I mean is, yea, it sounds great, but I’m left hanging. The entire book seemed so segmented; it didn’t seem to tell the story emotionally like a Madison book is supposed to do. The opener was just ho hum, the middle (or the surprise!) was kind of, oh, that’s nice and then the closer was, huh, that’s it!!! You see, the problem as I saw it was, these guys were so incredibly hyped up about this show and I wasn’t seeing it that I really started thinking that I’m just emotionally dead and maybe this is what happens as you get older. THE ACTIVITY HAS PASSED ME BY! I’ve decided though to stick with my original instincts. I believe I know a bad show from a brilliant one and I can smell hype from 50 paces. Now don’t get me wrong, Madison has a great show this year and no matter where they end up, I believe that this year will be rightfully looked upon as another big step in the right direction. What I’m mainly referring to is all of the early season to mid season hype and the inability to look at a program objectively. Again, from my perspective Madison is improved but at this moment they don’t have the depth of show of Phantom and don’t be surprised again by a late surge from the Bluecoats or Crown. For that I say, it’s a shame because I for one believed these guys had the collective talent this year to take it a bit further. Call me a pessimist, but I don’t think so! And I for one hope that I can eat my words but by this time of the season we should have seen A LOT more equipment work from the guard. We should have seen the ending of the show mature into something “Madisonesque” but it seems that the staff hasn’t found that “something”. We should be hearing that the crowd is experiencing spontaneous ovations to there feet throughout the show, but its not happening. By my experience this is all very uncharacteristic at this point of the season if one is hoping to have more left in the tank! I’ve said all that to simply say that love is blind and Madison simply doesn’t have the complete package this year. Great show, yet left wanting! I’ve said my piece, now what say ye? Sincerely, Madsop75

As a side note, This may be a contributing factor to my original question or yet again a continuation of an earlier topic/post (see, Hey Madison..Note to Self) but I just received word from an individual at tonight’s show in Tenn. that Madison's ending is so wrong and outright anticlimactic that its causing fits of rage within the fan! Sincerely, Madsop75

Someone help me out here. There's rumbling in the hinter land that Madison seems to be falling into a repeated nasty habit this time of the season of not knowing how to finish strong and that they potentially become their own worst enemy. I've got a strong feeling that this is an over simplistic view and there's a lot more to the story then what us arm chair quarterbacks might want to imagine. By the way, did I fail to mention, Madison's having a great season! How about some observations from those of you on the ground or that have talked to those who are? You know what they say about inquiring minds! Sincerely, Madsop75

bookemdano, Getting through? Well the bantor is invigorating! May the passion never die! Sincerely, Madsop75

Maedhros, I really appreciate your perspective and one thing you can certainly bank on is that there will never be any demeaning of our family from this camp! Neither do I believe anyone would ever, or is currently calling into question if one Scout could possibly be any more deserving of its lineage over another! It is truly a sad day if style of program or in this case Madison’s current show ending were to become a personal issue directed towards its current members. That said, not being able to discuss and express ones opinion on such a passionate topic would be as I’m sure you would agree to be simply wrong! Sincerely, Madsop75

drochau, Yes, today’s Scouts are making their own history as will tomorrows! Something that each Scout learns and is keenly aware of though is that they are truly carrying a torch from the past forward and it is a weighty and proud endeavor! You see, tradition is in fact the mystique that is Madison and is that major driving force that draws men (and woman) to the Scouts! Madison’s tradition is its holy grail and its past members do in fact hold a very prominent position in the eyes and hearts of its current members. We are their standard! Sincerely, Madsop75

To Maedhros and MikeD, Thank You for your thoughts! Maedhros, you’re demeaning of what took place 30 years ago in my life and it somehow being irrelevant to today’s activity is sad and quite telling. I marched for 10 seasons with the Scouts organization, 81' was my age out year. There have been a number of productions that the Scouts have performed since my age out that have simply astonished me! (As well a number of other corps!!) I believe if you truly have read my past posts that know where have I expressed as you say "god like" superiority over my alma mater. Know where have I called into question the abilities or lack of "brotherhood" of Sal Sallas. As a matter of fact, quite the opposite! One thing I would never do is call into question the experience of someone relative to his or her own personal marching experience with another corps. That would be foolish and arrogant. I believe ours is a wonderful activity and all of us are needed to make up the whole. I am sorry, but when I speak of Madison as I have in these posts I am often referring to an ideal and a philosophy that is uniquely Madison and these ideals are transcendent and alive today! Again, it would be presumptuous on my part to believe that the Madison experience is understood from the outside looking in! Please don’t take that as an attack or somehow and issue of superiority, for many of you also have an experience that is all your own and for that I say, amen! Maybe you might consider celebrating my experience as I raise a toast to yours! Sincerely, Madsop75

Ok, To those of you who refer to Madison Alums as nutty, to those who would rather see requests phoned in directly to Sal Salas, to those who would rather I simply move on, except the status quo, focus on only the good and break into a rousing chorus of Kum-bi-ya (PhantomR). To all of you I express my deepest heartfelt compassion for your utter lack of understanding. For how could I expect you to understand the essense of what it means to be a Scout. Check out the DCI season pass link and in the lower right hand corner of the home page you will see a number of individuals listing thier favorite performances and corps. Notice the constant listing of Madison 75. I am now 45 but periodicly I'll run into someone who was in the stands at Franklin Field on Aug. 18th 1975 and it's a humbling experience when a complete stranger begins to cry as they recount the performance we did that eavening. You bet I'm a little passionate about my boy's. So please allow me the freedom to publicly hold them to a standard that I and all Scouts know runs deep within! Given the proper tools I know that they are capable of anything! So please consider for a moment that you may not know of what you speak and you might just be out of your league. Sincerely, Madsop75

Dan, Fortunately when you and I marched together it was semi circle on the 50', park and rip face off untill that final gun! Now days its bodies flying everywhere at 95mph with bursts up to 100mph all the while the boys are effortlessly blowing at quadrillion forte!!! I prefere the new way just as long as its not me doing the running! One thing is for sure, the Madison green god's are up to the task if given the tools. Here's for hopeing! Sincerely, Madsop75

MnScout fan, Here, let me try to help our friend, PhantomR You see, it's not the mere fact that Madison's show is as you say "working well". It's much bigger then that! A Madison aficionado can not simply as you say "move on to something different"! Especially when it is realized that this corps which historically has had the ability to move both heaven and earth and has the "horses" to do the same this year and yet is caught leaving its cards on the table. This my friend becomes a serious issue to the Madison devotee. And and issue unfortunately misunderstood by many. Sincerely, Madsop75

" Kdaddy, Serious Question? Why is it assumed that if Madison “brings down the house” it equates to them finishing “10th or14th”? Are you stating that if they do bring down the house it can only mean that they presumably have to sacrifice other areas of performance on the sheet? Is Madison not capable in delivering their type of show and still winning? I beg to differ! (Oh, by the way, I’m old school and believe, shhhhhh, don’t tell anyone, but winning is goooood! Competition is life!) Sincerely, Madsop75

Jim, Yes, a keen observation on your part! I did march with Sal in 1975 along with 124 other brothers. And yes, Sal and I know each other quite well! But really now, you can’t be serious. Its one thing to speak with a brother but yet quite completely different for someone as professional as Sal to consider my telephoned promptings! Here’s what I believe. I trust Sal and those he has surrounded himself with. I believe Sal and the others on staff (esp. Michael C.) have a pulse on what’s happening and on what’s to occur. I quite enjoy this venue, don’t you! It gets us all talking and yes, sometimes worked up! I also know that Sal and his staff read these postings and I also know that he takes the types of things I posted seriously and that he also has a sense of humor. Sincerely, Madsop75

Glory, Oh contraire! For either you lack serious historical perspective, or sadly I am lost among a forgotten generation that collectively wants to scream out onto the field “just do something!” You see my friend, I would bet you all of the tea in China that in fact the majority of fans do agree with me but when one has never experienced that of which I speak everything becomes relative to his or her common experience! On the other hand I agree with your reference to the Cavies, you see I believe you can have it both ways. Sadly though, for this generation, they will probably never experience the utter ebb and flow of emotion that used to be present on the field of competition. This my friend is a true and harsh reality that is a child of our modern day system of judging! Madsop75

Note to self, Ok, the Carmen thing seems to be working for us! At least most people seem to get the whole concept that to do the thing right we needed the girl. Eventually, Maybe, Hopefully, everyone else will figure out that Carmen was not a “bearer” of equipment (rifles, sabers, flags, etc.) but a destroyer of men’s souls. Ok, enough contemplation about our theme! There’s something very important though that seems to need addressing, something underlying that we just haven’t put our collective finger on yet, hmmmm…lets see. By all accounts were having a great season. Talents way up; we’re vastly improved in all areas. The horn line is sounding great and can peal paint! The percussion issues of the past seem to be just that, the past! (And did I mention that those boys can just flat out throw down!) And talk about swagger, our guard is back!!! Not to mention, we’ve got some of the best arrangers and technicians in the business along with a new direction in the visual area that seems to be suiting us quite well. What is it though? It seems like something’s missing! Its gnawing at us, it’s almost like an itch we just can’t seem to reach! Hmmmm….Lets review, vast improvement in all areas, we’ve given the judges what they want. Hmmmm…What about our most important aspect, performing for our fans? Let’s see, are we building and creating the emotional mass hysteria that were known and loved for from the beginning to the very end of our show? Does the end of our show (something that were VARY famous for!) weave such an emotional toil on the soul that our fans can’t bear to take it any more? Well, the opener is good, it’s controlled, it’s loud but it’s not getting them out of their seats. I think we’ve got to do something about that, it’s out of character. We then continue on with our star attraction, again, this seems to be selling. But then there’s the closer. It seems that here is where we’ve lost our identity! By this point in the season (and it is quite late) and this point in the show is where the throngs of people want to rush the field in mass hysteria!! But somehow we got the idea that it was far batter to do something other then Madison and lull them to sleep with sweet nothings. I just don’t know if the new neutered Madison approach has time to catch on with the judges! OH MY,,,, That’s It! Eureka!!! (Epiphany moment) Let’s do what we do best. Let’s look to performing for our fans as our guide and all shall end well! Madsop75