perc2100

This didn't seem to be a problem when BD did their stage productions when they were also doing DCI shows. I remember they'd say, have a DCI show on a Thursday and a stage show (where they kept all of the ticket money) on a Wednesday or something. What if we had a stand-still/theater-type of tour: a concert thing where corps would maybe play some field show stuff and mostly non-field show charts. It could come in the early evening after a corps' typical rehearsal day, perhaps if we had, say, SCV/Blue Devils/Mandarins/BAC do this a few times during the west coast swing on non-DCI show days, they'd not only get more fan engagement but also make more money. Four corps doing that would mean a lot less material each corps would have to prepare, and maybe throw in some sort of all-in chart or two for extra fun. They could even maybe do this indoors, at a stadium of one of the corps' rehearsal sites. Something like this idea could maybe kill two birds w/one stone: more engagement + extra money for corps. IIRC Blue Devils did this in smallish auditoriums or maybe some gyms which might've cost extra money; if they do something at an already-booked housing/rehearsal site perhaps that would save on costs

This brings up an obvious idea: Boston Crusaders Alumni Corps? They've been around a long time as an org so huge alumni base, the success of their junior corps the last couple decades has a wealth of younger alumni to pull from, and I have to think their 2025 competitive success has energized their alumni even more. BACA 27!

This could be, along with the "is this really worth the time and legal expenses to go after?" Awhile back there was a film made call ESCAPE FROM TOMORROW, about a dad who was fired while on a family vacation at Walt Disney World, and throughout the day his mind slowly devolves. Not only does the film stomp all over Disney IP (to the extent of a 'Disney Princess' prostitution ring is involved, just as one example), but the filmmaker shot the film illegally at Disneyland & Walt Disney World. It screened at the Sundance Film Festival, and most of the talk was about the gonzo filmmaking and the obviously illegal means the film was shot and conceived; the director talked about editing the film in another country for fear of a US editing facilities getting wind of what he was doing & notifying Disney to end the thing. Most critics and filmgoers talked about if the film would ever get released in any way, will Disney sue to keep it out of theaters, etc. And what happened? Disney simply ignored the film publicly. They took the stance that it wasn't worth all of the efforts to kill a small movie that most of the general public would never hear existed, and suing the filmmaker would likely have the adverse affect of shining light on film and make it MORE popular: as well as the negative press of "Disney killing the creative little artist" stuff. And for the most part, Disney's strategy worked out perfect. The movie got a very minor distribution deal, likely because major and mid-major studios didn't want to risk Disney's wrath, and the movie essentially died with most of the general public unaware it exists. So sometimes doing no legal actions is 100% a big corporate strategy for lots of different reasons; and sometimes it's 100% necessary to protect copyright. Things in this world are rarely, hardly ever, black-and-white

Maybe 'Holy Corps?' Would a volunteer alumni group run afoul of court decrees, or just a youth activity full-time org?

Ha, seriously! Even in the 80's or early 90's this localized stuff was fairly integral to sustaining most non-Top 6 organizations.

I think since as long as I've known about the activity in the early 1990's, all Admin involved are in some state of treading water and hoping not to go under: just about everyone is one accident or disaster away from financial oblivion: from a lawsuit from awhile ago, bad press, equipment or food truck being stolen/breaking down, etc. From an outsider's perspective, it's almost fascinating how little long-term growth planning seemingly occurs in the activity, unless things get discussed w/out any press or leaks; if I'm wrong, please show me!

FWIW Banana Ball is absolutely NOT Harlem Globetrotters; they're more entertainment-focused, but the games have specific rules and are 'anyone-can-win-any night' affairs. The Savanah Bananas lost in the Semis IIRC; they certainly didn't win this year. And for what it's worth, baseball traditionalists (🙋‍♂️like me) have embraced the Banana Ball org to the fact where MLB stadiums that hadn't sold out in decades sold out super quick for Banana Ball. There's a TON of dancing and music involved w/games, and a bit of tomfoolery at times to make things fun, but generally they're still doing all of the hitting/pitching/catching/fielding as normal with some rules changes. Regardless, they sure found a great way to engage both current MLB fans (🙋‍♂️), as well as those who don't normally attend or watch MLB or MiLB games Also, I think DCI and its corps have made it clear they're not super interested in dinos and traditionalists as it is for the most part

Yeah at this point I feel like it's almost amazing DCI is still going, still seemingly viable to some extent at least, and still selling tons of tickets to regionals and Championships. Perhaps there is no reasonable solution short of completely just letting it all ride until the wave finally crashes and the juggernaut corps do their own separate thing like Star/Blast. I still think the most viable option is for corps to do WGI Winds groups: could be more localized, just as innovative and cool, easier financially, etc. Like, it's floored me that corps aren't doing any of that, but I guess it would stretch them too thin (since some corps have seemingly struggled doing their own percussion or guard groups). Maybe old timers can just sit back, enjoy DCI while we can, and just ride until one of us (me or DCI) dies 🤷‍♂️

More like, "Get the F off my lawn: this is in the key of G!" 🤪

So, perhaps what's needed, is a more regional-based tour model, at least from early-mid/late season? Like say, a DCI Western tour, a DCI mid-western, a DCI Eastern, etc? Fascinating if true...

You might be right, but 1) I think people have been saying this since before I was born (I'm almost 50), and 2) I might've thought that when I was marching in the late 1990's, where there maybe weren't even enough World Class corps to make up a Top 21. I'll say this about DCI and its member corps, they are somehow wildly resilient: like, beyond business logical sense DCI still seems 'ok' and its corps are mostly keeping on keeping on. Maybe were at the beginning of the end, or maybe where at the end of the beginning of a(nother) new change in things, or maybe DCI will keep trucking for another decade or two as-is. 🤷‍♂️

This tracks w/anecdotal evidence from my friends/alumni. I know folks who marched in the 80's/early 90's who still go to local(ish) shows when they can but for the most part even folks I marched with in the late 1990's do pay much attention to DCI anymore. I used to go to shows after aging-out when they were in my town but after a little more than a decade or so I stopped going. I had the DCI season video subscription which was amazing living on the west coast with shows not lasting too late, and even better I could go back and watch shows I missed live. When DCI stopped offering the service I wasn't impressed with the changes and stopped subscribing (I'm sure it's light years better than it used to be); I went to the movie theater events for awhile but that died off eventually too. I haven't been to a live show in probably a decade or so now, and looking at next year's schedule it's unlikely I'll go to a show next year (though I might take a drive to go to a show or two to support students that may be marching, or I _might_ go see Bluecoats at the Rose Bowl or at Walnut or something). You're right that DCI doesn't seem to do much regarding alumni engagement that I'm aware of: I don't even recall any "please donate!" type of mailings or emails after aging out. It's like "either your former corps engages or nothing" is the ethos (which sucks if 'your former corps' folded a long time ago). I agree if DCI did more alumni stuff that might help get some of us dinosaurs back spending money on DCI stuff again, going to shows, etc.

This and IIRC there were folks who were part-time in the Army Reserve or something that got called for active duty. I was in HS at that time, so my memories are stories from friends (who were college aged DCI members at that time) that I don't recall details to anymore but I remember hearing about several folks who were marching in a corps/going to winter camps and then were called to duty to serve. Some might've volunteered, some called via part-time Reserve call-ups. Obviously not "drafted" but not necessarily "I signed up to go to war" either

Heck even in the early 1990's the Iraq war took folks out of drum and bugle corps. With the way current US Gov is, I wonder how many non-Americans are thinking twice of doing drum and bugle corps this year. Seems to be A LOT of hassle just to come to the US from another country

According to Centerville Band Boosters email posted earlier, who had been putting on a DCI show for 40 years, partnering with DCI since before COVID, DCI is failing its tour event sponsors/local coordinators. I guess thank them all you want, but DCI is seemingly dropping the ball here with at least one of them

If that's the case (I personally haven't looked at the schedule a ton, but I'm not doubting your assessment at that early date), it seems...interesting...that DCI would've proposed moving it weeks earlier than its been the last several years. Like, DCI set the show up for failure by moving the show earlier when corps were still pretty spread-out (and the one junior corps in OH is in CA). I agree with @Jeff Reamthat presuming the Band Boosters email is accurate (and we have no reason to believe it's not), DCI does not look good in this situation.

Are there now hard requirements for being an Open Class corps?

And we can't forget the always-necessary theremin!

I don't disagree with that concept, but right now it feels undeniable that DCI is catering to a niche of a niche of a niche audience. Twenty year olds are not exactly known for being huge spenders, though what the BAC management was almost certainly implying was catering to the people paying hundreds of dollars in audition camp fees, buying souvenirs, etc. Obviously between dinosaur alumni (me!) or modern marching-aged young adults, you go with said young adults 100% of the time. However, if you're even remotely interested in trying to grow the activity beyond the niche of a niche of a niche current audience base, I don't think that's the viable solution for an activity with ever-growing MAMMOTH costs and minimal revenue streams. I can't fathom why more DCI corps haven't set up WGI Wind groups to test those waters: given the WGI model, it seems perfect for longer-term financial stability (maybe less housing costs & travel costs given how many local WGI-affiliated circuits & WGI Regionals there are) that would also attract a mostly local-base of membership that could bode better for future fundraising and charity stuff. If you have a local base & membership & local engagement, it's sure a lot easier getting donations than "yeah I live in Iowa but I'm marching a drum corps in Northern CA and need to ask for donations to help pay the thousands of dollars in tuition fees for a group that won't even be performing in this state this calendar year." WGI groups aren't cheap to run of course, but a heckuva lot cheaper than a DCI drum and bugle corps

And that's because 1) who does DCI and its member corps actually serve and 2) who actually benefits from its performances and competitions. NY Phil, CSO, etc. have long traditions of excellence but a symphony isn't anywhere near as niche as DCI. Not to mention most, if not all, symphonies, have adapted their model to pull in more broader audiences. Sure, NY Phil may have an esoteric world premier concert that celebrates 21st century music that might not fill the hall, but they'll also have "Star Wars w/the symphony" that will sell out. DCI is a niche of a niche of a niche entertainment option as it is, and their programming isn't exactly friendly to newbies and folks off-the-street. At least in the old days (which I agree where not rosy, and in likely many cases worse than nowadays just with more corps) performances included more recognizable and audience-friendly music. Even if not super-well known, I could show my grandpa a VHS of Cadets 1995 show + populist John Williams movie music (that he wasn't familiar with) mixed with the 'day in the life of a small town prepping to send their boy to war' was a show he could really enjoy. Madison Scouts Latin show entertained him. SCV's NOT The Nutcracker, not so much. That's just a small sample of one year 30 years ago, and arguably shows from the 80's or 70's were even more crowd-friendly than 1990's. But I guess what I'm saying is that DCI has moved further away from things that kind of helped balance out their niche entertainment. Even Bluecoats Beatles show a few years ago mashed so many songs in a short span of time, a die-hard Beatles fan like my mom (OG Beatle maniac she was as a girl in the 60's) was only marginally entertained: vs Bluecoats early 90's Beatles show that she loved. When we think about it's it's almost bizarrely impressive how DCI hasn't really tried to appeal to a broader audience, and instead if moving further away from broad accessibility . Until it does, there is ZERO reason for any big businesses or donors to step up and sponsor corps or DCI: why throw money away on a non-civic non-profit org that has little/no mass-market appeal, doesn't do much for the local community, and isn't really visible in any way whatsoever outside of its rabid tiny fanbase

I agree, a salary cap would _maybe_ fix a small part of the problem, but I agree that the larger issues with drum and bugle corps in the 21st century. I honestly don't know what, if anything, is a "relatively easy" fix for the financial problem, and I agree with others this isn't necessarily a 21st century problem: this was problematic in the 80's and 90's, maybe always though now w/likely more expenses (better food, more staff & gear, insurance, etc). WGI has such a great model, I think, with weekend-only show, localish membership & rehearsal facilities, etc. It's still expensive for a season (an Independent World org from, say, SoCA is still spending several hundreds of thousands of dollars a year), but maybe this is a more viable model for drum corps in the future. A radical change, for sure: one that would necessitate a very different performance model, membership model, etc. But perhaps the most tenable long-term model. Or not, IDK. Maybe it's been a long, fun 50+ year ride and reality is _finally_ setting in. Maybe something like G7 is a viable model, with smaller shows & tour, less corps, more fan-friendly designs + more community engagement maybe, IDK. This is obviously not an easy problem to solve, but I'm not 100% if the activity has legit tried to solve the problem (or wants to)

1) I'd say maybe cap spending on everything but the 'essentials' that you say above: additional instruments (keytar/trombones/oboe/whatever), staff & designers, props and backdrops, uniforms/costumes, guard equipment, etc. would be a possibility 2) I'd say the same thing about the Mets & Yankees currently: you can buy Juan Sotto's near-billion contract but still have inept management hold you back. Same w/Dallas Cowboys. And of course, statistically, with the salary cap NFL has had far more repeat winners than MLB's non-cap league, though Ohtani is almost certainly changing that for LA for the foreseeable future

A ceiling _AND_ a floor, to prevent corps w/out the means from touring poorly (I sincerely hope that doesn't happen as much anymore as it did back in the day, meaning literally up to the 1990's/early 00's at the very least). As others have said, though, the corps that benefit from this (and more importantly, the designers who make their living on this stuff - I'm old enough to remember when "drill designer" wasn't a career, it was a fun thing folks did as a hobby that made extra money while doing something else as a career) wouldn't dream of passing rules that would impede their own rise to the top.

Yeah I'm just a HS music teacher with no experience in business, but this sounds like THE absolute stupidest business model and it's crazy it has continued as long as it has at this point. I have little doubt this has mostly been the cast forever, and even when I marched in 'dark days' in the late 1990's, where there were more Quarterfinals slots than World Class corps, this was almost certainly the case. Obviously short of corps massively cutting budgets to fit their income (less new equipment annually; less staff & designer pay; less tour, maybe) this is in no way viable. NONE of this is surprising to me; I've known WC corps directors and high level staffers that have spilled the tea, so to speak, about business. But it's wild to think that little/nothing has changed over the decades except it seems like corps' spending has increased to excess

Or "members weren't happy with staff + management" and retention was looking bad (though obviously before any camps so who knows).