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Jim, congrats on giving the correct answer on the trivia question. You get: 50 yard line tickets to the NEXT Hershey DCA show! Fran and Tony, it was a pleasure to meet both of you. Thanks, Tony, for all the video "coaching" material you provide the corps (and the rest of us)! And Fran, you make the job look waaaaay toooo easy! I'm already researching "retirement benefits." Overall, it was the best alumni show I've seen (and heard) in quite some time. Every corps was "ON" and I know the audience really ate it up! Steve

Does anyone here have or know where I can get a copy of the current DCI bylaws? This would answer many questions for me, including how to respond to the idea of selling the assets to a private enterprise. In addition DCI's own decision to disband and distribute its assets, there are federal and state laws governing dissolution and distribution of non-profit assets. These are generally found in bylaws. These regulations are made in the interest of the organization, as opposed to any individual or group of individuals, and the governmental bodies that grant organizations non-profit status.

DCI has no future as a non-profit. It has reached the ceiling of this sort of structure. Also understand that most great CEOs, especially those that are turn around artists... aren't there for the salary... but for the performance-based compensation. It is not unusual that many of these guys take zero salary (they don't need it anyway) and very little in the way of perks. This type of individual could be attracted to run a revamped DCI (not the current non-profit), but it would definitely be a very different dynamic. Thanks to a few recent posters, there are several possible models to examine in creating a successful DCI non-profit structure. I do not believe that turning DCI into a for-profit business would be a successful venture and cited a few reasons in my earlier post. Please give some specific steps as to how you envision a successful transition, not just for DCI but for its member corps. For example, who are some of the "great CEOs" that might consider such a turnaround venture and what organizational structures might they implement? I just don't understand how DCI or its members could survive in the for-profit world. Help me "see the light."

Thanks, Kamarag, so it's similar to a Chamber of Commerce or Builders Association, a different animal than a 501 ©(3) charitable, educational org.

Are you sure about that? I could be wrong, but I thought that they and other organized professional sports were privately held (but receive some government exemptions/allowances).

Thanks, Stu. I think example a. still has the problem of being a consortium wherein the individual corps would be for-profit. I don't see how they could exist without tax-deductible donations. Is there a market to support the activity without those donations? I doubt it. Your little league example sounds feasible. I don't know much about it but I could believe that they, and other similar national youth associations could, as you suggest, serve as a good blueprint for revising/re-tooling DCI to help make it grow.

I've been reading (parts of) this thread with interest but also, at times, in utter amazement at the profound lack of understanding of business models and sectors displayed by some posters. A disclaimer: I do not consider myself an expert on NFP organization and operation, but it has been my livelihood for nearly 30 years. I've served as a board member (and President) on local, state and national organizations as well as having been a CEO of private local and statewide NFP organizations. I'd like to add a few points for clarification and a few to consider: 1. The terms "non-profit" or "not-for-profit" do NOT mean that an organization cannot make a profit. Indeed, it must, like any other business, make a profit to stay in business. The "Non-profit" distinction is that no "board member/trustee" may profit from his or her involvement in the governance of his or her organization. 2. A CEO is hired by the board, serves at the pleasure of the board, and is charged with implementing the policies set by the board. The board's role is to act as the governing oversight body, not as super-administrator (individually or corporately). I find DCI to be quite an contradiction here: on one hand, it's board members are paid employees (directors/CEOs) of their respective corps charged with making that corps a profitable business. On the other hand, as board members of DCI, they are to act in the best interests of DCI as a whole. This seems, to me, to open the gates to a broad range of conflicts of interest. 2. Bylaws are essential to the operation of any non-profit organization; they describe how that organization functions. If they become outdated or are found to be detrimental to current situations, they may (and should) be amended -- but, they are the rules under which that organization operates. A few weeks ago, as this thread was developing, I became curious as to how the recent board/s had been: appointed, elected, operating. I went to the DCI website to find a link to its bylaws but couldn't find any so I wrote to DCI asking for a copy. The website response indicated it had received my request and would respond within a two days. Having received no response, I again wrote to them two days ago with the same request and...got the same result, no answer. I assume they can be obtained from the Indiana Dept. of State which is where I will write next unless someone here can point me in the right direction to obtain a copy. ( I've been involved in drum corps since the 60s as a player, instructor, director and adjudicator but apparently, my interest and request are unimportant.) 3. I find quite curious the argument that DCI should become a for-profit entity; I'm not quite sure how that would work, given that all it's members (corps) are individual non-profit entities, each involved in their own fundraising and unique NFP issues. Could someone explain how that would work, beyond just saying that it should happen? 4. DCI is obviously in trouble and, in my opinion, it needs to look very carefully at the audiences it serves (corps, communities and individuals) and determine what internal changes are required to meet those needs successfully. It should eliminate the obvious conflicts of interest at the board level and build a board of successful/interested representatives from related industries and communities. It should then work to create a compelling strategic (long-range) plan and the more immediate annual business plans (goals) and related budgets that are required to operate a viable business in the NFP world. Any thoughts?

I remember Cambria from the late 60s when York White Roses were on their state championships winning streak. Cambia was a good up and coming corps that, I believe, eventually overtook York around 69 or 70. Who was their drum instructor? I believe that Paul Titel of York WR and Reading Bucs may have taught them a few years in the 70s. ....Anyone? Steve

An obvious and concrete topic in your thesis might include the missions, use and influence of the US military bands -- as a direct governmental "mouthpiece" of American ideals. In addition to all the base bands of each branch, worldwide, the DC headquarters bands regularly toured extensively throughout the US and around the world acting as "America's musical ambassadors." I believe you could access a treasure-trove of materials as each of these units now has archival collections. Start by contacting each band's PR office at its DC area base location. Good luck. Steve

Initially there was some talk about an informal drummers "jam session/get-together" there on Friday night but that will not be happening, at least for this year. The "after show party" will be held there. There is a USARD (US Association of Rudimental Drummers) convention, with clinics and special performances, the following weekend at the Heritage Hotel in Lancaster. You can find out more about that at www.usard.org click here Steve

Members and guests of USARD (U.S. Association of Rudimental Drummers) will be enjoying their third annual fun- and drumming-filled weekend. Among the clinicians and special performers featured at USARD, we are proud to welcome: "The Old Guard" drummers, The West Point "Hellcats" drummers, John Flowers, Thom Hannum, Jim Clark, Jeff Salisbury, John Bosworth & Jon Quigg, Bill Messerschmidt and Jim Ellis. These nationally-known leaders in rudimental drumming will be joined by ensembles from NY Drummers Association, The Hanover Lancers, The ex-USAF Drum Corps drum ensemble, the Skyliner Duet, St. Lucy's Drum Trio, the Middle River Ancients, The New England Chapter (of USARD) and Bill Mohica & Nick Biscotti. For more information on membership and registration, please visit our website at <www.usard.org> It'd be great to see and hear you there! Best wishes, Steve Young

Hey, Jim and Elphaba, thanks for the quick mentions of Bolling AFB drum corps reunions. The June 2011 reunion will be held in York, PA and the reunion committee voted to officially invite the early "enlisted" Academy corps members to join them. This is especially fitting since a number of the Bolling players were reassigned to the Academy when that unit was disbanded. We're having mixed success in compiling a good list of former Academy enlisted corps members and would appreciate your help in contacting them. If any of you reading this know of Academy enlisted corps members, please let them know they are invited to join us. They can PM me to get on our official mailing and invitation list. They can also check out our website Visit My Website for reunion details and more as they develop. It promises to be one of the best ever! Thanks for any help and leads you can give us. Tom, I don't believe Hightower was in the DC corps; perhaps the Academy. Steve

Just came across this topic and noticed that drummer Eric Landis (NJHoF) was not yet mentioned. Originally from Red Lion (York) PA, he went to south Jersey after the USAF D&BC. Judged and taught many NJ and PA corps including Crossmen. Maybe there should be a separate thread about PA judges and instructors. It could start it with these corrections to this thread: Jim Prime (Easton, PA), Joe Morella (Philly, PA), John Flowers, (Reading, PA). Good threads, this one and NY. Brings back lots of memories of instructors, friends and colleague judges! SKY

Hey, Andy...thanks for the quick and, likely, accurate answer to drumline size. Good guess; it certainly makes sense. I should have thought about the squads of threes, maybe it slipped by because about the only "drill" drumlines ever did was march quickly to the 50, then front to back for most of the show, turn and head for the other goal line. I remember our line having a fit because we were told to march backwards for maybe 16 or 32 steps during a drum solo. Have things changed? I'm doing well. As you can see by my info, part of the reason for the "long time no see" is that I've moved back to PA and don't get back to CT as often as I'd like. I sure do miss the Barnum Festivals, Deep River, etc. Hope all's well with you, too. Come to Allentown sometime; you can join us "at the pines" right below the stadium. Steve

I recently re-read a John Dowlan editorial from a mid-60s issue of DCN in which he lobbied strongly for awarding additional scoring credit for "large" drumlines -- those that exceeded the standard 3-3-2-1 setup which prevailed in the late 50s to mid 60s at both junior and senior levels. (Very) old photos show large lines that, at times, equaled or exceeded the size of the horn lines but...How did the standard 9-man competition line evolve? Who and what led to that standard? At the beginning of the 64 season, the drumline I was in, York White Roses, went to 4-4-2-2 and, at that time, it was the only line among those that we competed against that exceeded the "standard" 9. Even with the "large" line, we were very competitive in all our contests, taking high drums at PA states over all juniors and seniors. (In one solo the tenors switched to snare creating a temporary 8-man snareline.) We hadn't yet traveled very far outside the mid-Atlantic area so I'm not familiar with what all of the major competition corps were doing but I'm curious to know when other corps began to "break the mold" and how. Any thoughts, recollections? SKY

Thanks, Jeff. As a former W-BS (your dad's era), I also enjoyed your photos of the exhibit. SKY

Hey! We was robbed! We didn't get a good score 'cause we had to go on first! We protest!!! :thumbup: Hey, Jim, thanks for sharing this little bit of history, even if the scores didn't turn out the way I'd have liked -- and I wasn't even there. Matter of fact, I didn't even know what a drum corps was until about 3 or 4 years later. There must have been some fun competition among all these corps - all from within less than a 100 mile radius. I know some of them also competed relatively successfully against the "big boys" of the day, too. I remember that there was also a corps from Taneytown, MD; they stayed active as a parade corps (don't know if they did field competitions) through about 63 or 64. Do you know if Yankee Rebels were active at this time? Steve ps: I hear the Lancers had a great practice on Sunday with their new piece, "Men of Harlech."

You're absolutely right about that! Say "Hi" to Ben and John for me. Steve

Cookie, Two other names that should be added to your list of excellent drummers that played "after your time" would be Bob Hoffheins and Jimmy Dinkins, who went on to teach several dci drumlines and judge dci. Thanks for including me in that illustrious list of USAF drummers but, for accuracy, I gotta mention that I went into the USAF Pipe Band, the segment of the "corps" that was kept when the drum corps was disbanded. I did, however, have the great privilege to learn from and play with John Bosworth for those years. John was pretty much responsible for revolutionizing pipe band drumming by combining American, Swiss and Gaelic rudimental traditions into a new, unique USAF Pipe Band style. Also playing in the Pipe Band drumline were Ben Curtis who's nephew was this year's center snare for Cavies, and Bill Semanek, a soprano from Blessed Sac. You can check out some of their work (1968) at the USAF Alumni website: http://usafdrumcorps.us/ </a> along with a lot of other audio and video recordings. SKY edited to delete bad link

Just back from watching the ensemble rehearsal. Yes, very nice site. The band director, Powers, is an old-school drum corps guy. Ran into several old friends, including Danny Satchel, Reading Bucs and Rod Meckley, Garfield from 85-88. A nice day -- hot and sunny. Now on to the "other" stuff. This was my first look at Cadets this year. Very well run and productive rehearsal. As mentioned they did a lot of work on BLT and you could see it cleaning up nicely. The corps has a very crisp, confident look. Hornline had a strong, full sound, a good blend and no obvious substantial weaknesses. Snares and bass sections really projected well from all points on the field; nice tuning, good execution and tasty parts. Front ensemble seemed rather loud but the synth wasn't at all obtrusive or overpowering. IMO, this show is quite the welcome change from the past few years. Excellent!!!

Start at www.dci.org and use the pull-down menu for "corps." Select a corps, then on the left of the page click on "website." This takes you to the corps' site and there you'll find either "housing," "calendar" or "schedule." As I was looking up sites for the Allentown shows I found the following (that I can remember without looking them up again): Crossmen - Dallastown High School, near York, PA Cadets - Hempfield High School, in Lancaster Co, PA Blue Devils - Reading PA Phantom - somewhere in New Jersey There are a number of corps staying in the Pottsville / Schuylkill Haven area thanks to the efforts of the Belvederes (alumni corps). They include Cavaliers, Santa Clara, Troopers. Arrivals and departures obviously differ, depending on each corps travel schedules. Hope this helps.

Hi, Jim, I see you survived the parades! Yeah, two guys that I played with (both tenors in that line) have joined and really enjoy playing again after sooooo many years. The Lancaster show was at McCaskey High Stadium; good place for a show and always well attended. I remember those Mt. Carmel shows, too. See you at the USAF D&BC reunion in a few weeks? Steve

Lancaster was a great show -- a real "wake-up call." Don't know who sponsored it (there was no corps from Lancaster) or what year it began but it always was a good start to the year. From 63-69 it drew the regional corps and featured a few NY/NE corps each year. Some of those I remember: St. Mary's Lancers, Blue Rock, York White Roses, Dundalk Cadets, Royaleers, NJ Vagabonds, OLPH Ridgemen, St. Rocco's, LI Kingsmen, Pittsfield Cavaliers, St Raphael's, Garfield, OLPH VIPs, Sacred Heart, etc. The next night it was on to a bigger show, which always featured several of the same corps and a few additions at Bayard Stadium (complete with trains behind the stands) in Wilmington, DE. What a way to begin the season. Sure do miss those days and those contests. SKY

This is supposed to be an Upstate thread so I'll admit to having lived in Corning for 9 years, though well after my playing and judging days. Rather than being only one reason for the demise of so many of the corps (NY and everywhere else), I believe there are several major reasons and several seemed to occur, though not coincidentally, at critical times in US and drum corps history. First, I agree with the theory that the Vietnam War was a cause; it certainly took its toll on my corps and many other regardless of their levels of competitiveness. In less than three years, the war took most of our "veteran" players and the corps had no feeder or recruitment program adequate to replenish the corps; it also "left" the AL sponsor post (to improve its reputation) and died a slow death over a few years in the early 70s. I also agree that the DCI tour model was a cause for the demise of a good number of other corps, too. But, other reasons, whether inadequate fundraising or poor management, coupled with the loss of sponsorships by American Legion, VFW posts, scout troops and the catholic churches during that same time period, were at play and of equal importance. I thought Geoff's observation of the "8-10 year lifespan" effect of the aging-out of charter members was interesting and valid as well. I believe that between 1965 and 75 we probably lost more corps than in any other decade before or since (though I'm not going to try to prove it) with these three factors being the major causes. Sadly, it looks like can all be right; imagine! Steve ps: We didn't even mention the Srs. from the 60s, Grey Knights, Salamanca and many others, but I guess that's a topic for the senior historical forum.

Sorry, double post. SKY