sky

So, Boxingfred, your uncle's name wouldn't happen to be JoJo, would it? Who were the instructors? Wasn't your corps fully funded through the city rather than for profit? A unique situation, I think. Did you ever hear of the VIPs? Royal Sabres? They were "a bit" before your time but both were quite good, too. SKY

Hi, Jim, Well, I believe all the services are pretty much the same, but I'm certain that in the USAF all the "members" are regular enlistees except for the USAF Academy corps which is comprised of cadets. In DC, we flew regular AF aircraft (some good, some bad), had our own tour busses and, above our regular pay, we were paid per diem for tours and travel. Our "Squadron" had its own PR guy, recording production, announcer/MC, and road crew. Generally the publicity part was handled by the local or regional newspapers who "sponsored" the performances which had to be free (our tax $$$ at work, ya know!). I'd guess that there are entirely separate units to handle TV and radio commercials, websites, etc. and probably another one that handles those NASCAR and other sponsorships, too. It's not like they have budget problems! I'd bet they have separate chains of command regardless of the branch of service. Steve

Liam, Thanks for the compliment. I agree, this is an interesting topic: lots of detail and specifics like corps programs but not just based on opinion as are so many of the other posts about "who's the best___, etc." Your last post, the list, was great. As an example of how complicated these things can get, I used to work for the Corning Museum of Glass which is a non-profit organization separate from the Corning, Inc., the corporation. It's located on corporate property and physically connected to the Steuben Factory, a for profit division of Corning. Most of the museum's funding came from the corporation (great showcase for the corp.) but legally it was a separate entity so all the contributions were deductible. Steuben lost money regularly (maybe still does) but they kept it going because it really defined the art of lead crystal glass and kept Corning a leader in the art glass world. There also used to be a third entity in the building, The Glass Center, which as another corporate division sold glass, gifts and food but that has since been "given" to the museum because it wasn't very profitable. Visitors generally didn't know or care about the legal and operational distinctions but it sure effected the employees (and members!) and operations. BTW, it's a much better place now and a great place to visit. SKY

Hi, Silver, Yeah, fill in one issue and a load of others pop up...just like the potholes this time of the year. Was reading your post and followed your logic all the way to the end, almost... Sorry, but the Texas Longhorns (the university/team) are non-profit; the players are amateur (supposedly). And, as for the Marine Band - it's not a non-profit. It's "public sector," an arm of the government. The word "member" is pretty loaded in most instances and generally too vague: the member could pay, volunteer or be paid. But, you're right, there are two distinctions to be made: 1/ the organization: private, public or non-proit and 2/ the individual or member (see above). SKY

Thanks for your reply, Bearz. I did misinterpret your initial post; My apologies! On the subject of other deductions for volunteers, can you verify if the mileage deduction rate for volunteering differs (lower) from the normal business rate? Is it correct, too, that a volunteer may not deduct the value of his services, only the expenses of getting there to donate them (such as mileage and your example of lodging, in some cases)? Thanks for your clarifications and helpful advice. Steve

As in Martha Graham.

Bearz, I don't understand some of your reasoning here. Of course, paying all or part of someone else's dues would not qualify for a deduction for the donor, nor would the raffle ticket purchase. BUT, Peel is right in saying that making a donation to a corps' scholarship/sponsorship fund is a donation to the corps; the donor receives no direct benefit in return for his contribution. Deductibility applies only to the donor. That it benefits anyone else by, in your words, "receiving instruction, provided travel, fed, sheltered etc in return for that dues payment" is, indeed, the whole point of the donation and its deductibility. Steve ps: I'm not an accountant but I have slept at Holiday Inn and have hired accountant firms. :-)

Good points all, Dave. I absolutely agree with you. And to address some of the comments on corps' inability to compete for market share, advertising, etc: Non-profits are "private" entities, not "public" (only government is public sector) even though much of their funding may come from public sources or from tax-deductible contributions. They are, first and foremost, businesses...just as any for-profit in the business sector and must be run accordingly. This means that their marketing, sales and other business plans and strategies (mentioned in a few posts) need to be up to the level of competition of private enterprise or they'll go the way of many other corps and businesses --into extinction. Universities (someone gave the example of Harvard) and hospitals are clearly the leaders in the non-profit world in terms of financial and business acumen; success depends upon how well an organization fulfills its mission and, of course, how compelling or important that mission (or product) is to the broadest possible market. Steve

Dave, I agree with your comments but would add that the basic tenet and distinction for a "not-for-profit" is that a "director" or "trustee" of the governing board may not profit from his or her involvement or participation. (They may, however, be reimbursed for their organization-related "expenses.) This refers, specifically and only, to the policy and governance level, the "Board" of the organization, but not to the employees, contractors, volunteer staff or performers (if someone chose to pay them). And, from experience in the non-profit sector, the term / status does NOT mean that the organization cannot or should not make a profit. Indeed, if a corps is to survive, it had better end most years with a solid "profit-able" bottom line because I doubt that (m)any have endowments to help them through lean years. Steve

Hey, Jim. Wow! Helluva job pulling all this old info together and sharing with us! Some related random thoughts / memories: The first show I saw was at Smalls' field in York probably a few years later than those you posted. I remember seeing Archie, Yankee Rebels, Reilly (did a jig to Irish Washerwoman), and Cabs who brought the house down with Cherry Pink. York did an exhibition and were good, but no longer at quite that competitive level. Great show and, oh yeah, I was only about minus-20 years old at the time! Hanover Bears = Hanover Lancers (now a good all age non-competing corps). BTW, Jm, have you been to the second floor meeting room at the Legion? There are somef great old photos of the corps on the wall - and probably al lot more stuff stashed away somewhere up there. Williamsport Black Eagles - John Dowlan taught drums for this corps, "discovered" John Bosworth there and invited him to join the USAF drum corps. Don't know anything more about them, though. Kenwood Cavaliers - I've heard of this corps but don't know if they later became a junior corps. I wonder if they were connected to the Cheverely Cavaliers who, from what I've heard, were really a corps that was "supplemented?" by a whole gang USAF drum corps guys who would compete with them when they could. A lot of the corps names were familiar to me but, more surprising was how many were not: Hamburg Legion; Central City (and now the city is gone, too!); Burlington Highlanders, Henry Houston Post; Imhoff (heard of them, but know nothing more); Bollman Post - Lebanon; Fost Post - Mckeesport; McKall Post; Westminster Patriots (possibly succeeded by the Starlighters Jr corps from the 60s?). If anyone here has any info on any of these corps, I'd love to hear about them so please add any details here. Thanks! And...thanks again, to you, Jim, for your work and for posting a great read. Best, Steve

Yes, according to Jeff Cox of DCI, BD is at Hempfield. (Just north of Route 30 in Lancaster Co). See post #20 in this thread for the full housing schedule. Apparently Spirit still needs to find housing. I'm sure Jeff and Spirit would most grateful if anyeone could locate a place somewhere near A-town. See you at Allentown. SKY

Sorry; double post.

Yes, according to Jeff Cox of DCI, BD is at Hempfield. (Just north of Route 30 in Lancaster Co). See post #20 in this thread for the full housing schedule. Apparently Spirit still needs to find housing. I'm sure Jeff and Spirit would most grateful if anyeone could locate a place somewhere near A-town. See you at Allentown. SKY

For several years, a gentleman named Bob who is a volunteer on the Allentown host committee distributed a listing of housing sites. Having not seen one, I emailed him a few days ago. This arrived yesterday. (Bob, I hope you're OK with me posting this list and helping to get the word out.) So, thanks to Bob.....here's his list: Here it is. Spirit still not housed. Corps housing sites: 1.Santa Clara Vanguard DHH Lengel MS Pottsville 2.Carolina Crown Raub M.S. Allentown 3.The Cadets Upper Darby HS Drexel Hill 4.Phantom Regiment Hunterdon Central HS Flemington NJ 5.Boston Crusaders Laurer MS Easton 6.Madison Scouts North Schuylkill H.S. Ashland 7.Spirit Site pending 8.Troopers Schuylkill Haven H.S. Schuylkill Haven 9.Pacific Crest Salisbury M.S. Allentown 10.Cavaliers Penn State Schuylkill Schuylkill Haven 11. Colts South M.S. - Perkasie 12. Glassmen Pennridge North MS Perkasie 13. Blue Stars Salisbury H.S. Allentown 14. Blue Devils Hempfield HS Landisville 15. Bluecoats Northern Lehigh HS Slatington 16. Blue Knights Daniel Boone HS Birdsboro 17. Pioneer Saint Clare School 18. Crossmen Twin Valley H.S. Elverson 19. Mandarins Freedom HS Bethlehem 20. The Academy Pocono Mountain H.S.- Swiftwater 21. Beatrix Allen H.S. Allentown Best, SKY

And a few from the 60s from south of the Mason-Dixon Line: St. James, Baltimore, MD St. Mary's Lancers, Baltimore, MD and OLPH VIPs, DC - (the initials corps; payback to Bill S of BS!) SKY

BobB and Uncle Z - Do either of you know who taught St Lucy's drumline those years (of the cymbal rack)? Just curious because I remember that around 70 or 71 Reading Bucs also had a similar, though larger looking, contraption that we used to call the "talent rack." That line was taught by John Flowers. Any connection? Thanks to whomever can come up with the answer. Steve

Hey, Jim, You should know this -- Ritchee went to York (PA) High. His first corps was the York White Roses jr. corps; helped them win a few state championships. Another local drum corps drummer, Rod Meckley who once played with York (Sr.), Hanover Lancers and Garfield, is now the band director there. SKY

Good topic CB; that's a really nice piece. And, since this is a DCA & Alumni forum topic, I'll go with Truman Crawford's "Battle Hymn" done by the Yankee Rebels in...(don't remember which year/s). Steve

Though obviously inconvenient for many fans, the fact that tour routes and show schedules had probably been set for quite a while might also have been a major factor in selecting this near-by alternate site over the many other options proposed in this thread.

There's been a parade followed by a field (parking lot) show in Havre deGrace since at least 1963. I remember that year the show included Blue Rock, St. Mary's Lancers, Dundalk Cadets, York White Roses, Westminster Starlighters and maybe another one or two. It was a fun challenge since the lot was only about 2/3 the width of a regular field. We'd march backfield and inch up to the edge until we could see fish! We always looked forward to that one and had bets on which bass drummer would get wet! Best parade: In 1968 or 69 the King of Nepal visited the White House so all the military bands, units were ordered to form up at intersections along Constitution Ave. While waiting for the parade to start we noticed a motorcade approaching, got ordered to attention and, as the motorcade came to a stop in front of us, we played for them without taking a step. When we finished, they rolled along to the next unit a block away. It was great - a parade in reverse...and in the shade! A 4th of July parade visual: Bowie Md., sunny, hot, humid, no shade, no breeze (you know the kinda day!). While waiting to step off we were checking out the talent and noticed this guy with a can of Schaeffers in his hand staring up at an American flag hanging limp from a pole in his front yard. After staring for a while he goes inside and brings out a chair, goes back in and comes out unrolling a long extension cord, goes in again and brings out a big old box fan. Yep!!!! You guessed it! He puts the fan on the chair and aims it at the flag - getting, maybe, a little ripple from it. We were entertained and got a nice chuckle or two, then just before we stepped off, we faced him and his setup, came to attention and gave him and his flag a salute and a tune. He and the neighbors loved it and it helped us make it through another long, hot parade.

Deleted / double post. Sorry. SKY

Having been in a start-up corps in the early 60s I believe I can speak from experience. From August, 1965 on with the implementation of large scale draft (50,000 per month) I saw the draft/enlistment have a profound impact on my corps as it lost easily 1/3 to 1/2 of its most experienced players by 1969. It might not have been the only reason, but it was certainly a major contributor to the demise of our corps. Some of us were lucky and were able to join the ranks of one of the service corps but the competition for those few spots was heavy. When the lottery started, my number was 13! (Luckily I was already a staff sgt in a great job.) I believe this pretty accurately portrays the quick rise and fall that many corps experienced from the mid-to-late 60s into early 70s. Many other established corps were equally effected. Yes, of course, drum corps survived but one only needs to look at the drum corps rep site to see the profound losses.

Dennis and Jim, I remember having competed against the Mariners at Baynard (?) Stadium. They had a great show (beat us, but didn't win the show). I later met Brasale in DC when he was with the Marine D&BC and was also teaching OLPH VIPs Jr. Corps (along with Bill Semanek and Bob Neidrich). Great guy. RIP, John. SKY

Thanks, Superman, Now that's a show I'm sorry to have missed. Looks spectacular. SKY

Hey, Dan, Thanks, again, for the extra info and, ...a bit late...for the phenomenal show in Ithaca (75?) Best, SKY