sky

Hey Dan, Thanks - VERY MUCH - for starting the topic and also for the later link. I checked that one out and found a few seconds of the USAF Pipe Band in part 3, playing - of all things - Mist Covered Mountains!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6r9aKGmAQ4...feature=related The band wore several uniforms, including dress blues, formal mess dress and the full traditional uniform. The Mitchell tartan honored Billy Mitchell, father of the AF, and was approved in Scotland for use only by the USAF band. I've sent the link on to some of those that were there. Best, SKY

Since its beginning, the USAF D&BC had a pipe section/band that would perform with it (using the "rudimental" drummers from the corps - John Flowers, John Bosworth, Dave Woodford among others). During Kennedy's funeral, the family requested that the Pipe Band play "Mist Covered Mountains," an old Irish tune, at the graveside ceremonies. The following year when the drum corps was disbanded, the pipe band, a White House favorite, became an independent unit of the USAF Band at Bolling AFB with Bosworth as lead drum. This band's reputation in the international piping world equalled that of the corps here in the US. The band was very innovative; combining corps style rudimental drumming with the more traditional Gaelic style was one of the band's trademarks and greatly influenced drumming in both arenas. It was disbanded by the Nixon admin in May, 1970. And, for us old-timers... who DOESN'T remember where we were, what we were doing when this tragedy occurred?! (Moi? ...in 7th period class in 10th grade.) SKY

Hey, Jim Good to see you on Saturday. You guys (Lancers) sounded great! About your driving/directions discussion...Sorry to tell you that, from PA, there is NO way to easily avoid the _95s to get to Bolling! When I was making those trips, the most direct (actually, the only) way was to exit the Balti beltway onto the BW Parkway (295); that takes you directly to the base which is on your right as you pass by DC. I also noticed that the name of the street to the main gate has been changed to Martin Luther King. (VIPs D&BC were from nearby Anacostia/Suitland area.) As you noted, the base is directly across the Potomac from Reagan National Airport. Can you imagine that until the early 60s, there were also active flightlines at Bolling AND at the adjacent Anacostia Naval Air Station!!!! Must have been like a war zone. By the mid-60s, all the Bolling-related flights flew out of Andrews AFB further East near the beltway. Bolling was a cool, small base; no saluting required since there were more officers than enlisted. I doubt you could get onto Bolling nowadays given the heightened security. Look forward to hearing from you. SKY

Most acknowledge John Dowlan (Archie, Reilly? and others, also came up with backsticking ) as "the" drum instructor; Rod may have followed him in that role. I'll check on that and post a correction if appropriate.

I believe it may have been the late 60's when Dr. Keith Markey wrote and arranged for the Air Force Drum & Bugle Corps. In 1978, Keith and I made a valiant attempt at starting a corps in Boulder, CO...the Voice of the Rockies. Never panned out. You're correct. Markey arranged for the Academy corps in the mid - late 60s. When THE USAF Drum Corp was disbanded in '64 a number of them were reassigned to the Academy finish their enlistment. That corps continues but is now composed of cadets rather than enlisted. Also...two of the finest drummers in the Bolling corps: Bob Zarfoss from York, taught York White Roses Jr., Hanover Lancers and Westshormen-Bonnie Scots and John Bosworth, from Williamsport, PA, became lead drum of the Pipe Band, founded American Originals and now works with Top Secret and is forming a "corps" for the Sultan of Oman. Other York drummers: Drum corps - Jim Flinchbaugh, Eric Landis, Bob Hoffheins, ___ Reisinger, Tom Gibbs, Rod Burg, Steve Schrum, Steve Young (Pipe Band drummer), horn men - Ken Yohe, K.B. Oiler, Jan Resnick among others. A few other familiar horn players were (the late) Harold "Skip" Groff and Bill Taberling, both well-known arrangers into the 70s and the very much alive Ricardo Gabriel (brother of the band conductor/commander Arnald). There are many other notable USAF players who later went on to profoundly effect the drum corps AND pipe band worlds. Both were "state of the art." Last year DVDs were produced for the Alumni reunion in 2007 which complied some old corps performances and informal films taken mostly by members along with some more recent (2002) Pipe Band performances. A real piece of history. Thanks for plugging the Web site, Jim. See ya this spring. Steve

Gary, sorry, but your thanks was, perhaps, a bit premature as well as misguided. Having played with them in 70 and 71, I am certain that the Westshoremen-Bonnie Scots name was used for both those years (and several years prior). Good luck with getting the correct answers for when they dropped the "Bonnie Scots" but I think they kept it for 72, maybe 73 and until they "folded." You might want to contact any of the guys at 5-Star to confirm; definitely Bill Light, Chuck Saia and Larry H would know - they were in the corps through that period. Steve

Regarding the York White Roses, yes they were a competitive Sr. corps in the 50s. I remember going to their contest (my first ever) and seeing Reilly, Archie, YR and Hawthorne. York was good but not quite at that level. By 1960 they disbanded and, I believe, in 1961 they began forming a junior corps which finally took the field in 1963. We did Eastern States and Round Robin (NJA) circuits and a few other indy shows. At 1964 states, we took top drums over all the junior and senior corps competing. From 1966 to 68, York won both AL and VFW state championships. Fran: we competed against Sacred Heart beginning around 1965, trading wins over each other pretty regularly. Richee joined the corps in either 66 or 67, played for several years, then went on to St Rita's, Bucs and Matadors. I was in the corps when we traveled to Geneva to compete against "new" corps. We didn't fare too well, coming in around 4th place (I think). I remember St. Joe's won the show and corps such as the Appleknockers, Utica Yankees and others there. Good show but not a particularly good job by us. That afternoon many of us discovered the "18 yr-drinking age" concept and found a new way to do ourselves in! (I later lived in Corning from 1983-91). Having been steadily depleted by the draft beginning in the mid-60s, the corps' success was fading; it disbanded around 1972 or 3. The White Roses had a limited return in 1974 or 5 to 1976 or 7 (iirc) as a senior corps competing in RCA using salvaged equipment from the previous junior and senior corps. (Check dates in the other thread that lists finals appearances). Having only 2 or 3 members with any corps experience, the first year was brutal. In its final year, the corps was beginning to become respectable, bolstered by about 10-12 members of the then inactive Hershey Chocolatiers. Instructors were Bill Tabeling on horns, Whitely Roberts on M&M and Steve Young on drums. The corps was always known as the York White Roses except at "our" Hershey show where it was introduced incorporating the Hershey name. That "union" ended shortly thereafter and, as the Hershey contingent left to reform their own corps, the beginning of the end had arrived. Remaining players left for Buccaneers, Hanover Lancers, Westshoremen-Bonnie Scots, and Garfield. Note: Dates may be off by a year or so in some cases as this is written from (diminishing) memory but the main points / claims are accurate. The "good times" are easy to remember but...! SKY

Didn't catch the Westshoremen info. Good eyes, Jeff. They were then the Westshoremen-Bonnie Scots and (check with Wally?) I'm pretty sure they also did RCA in 1971.

Hi, all Fun thread. Yes it does bring back memories. Several comments on the thread regarding York - PA... York White Roses started as a senior corps with AL Post 127 in York...PA. They competed from the 1940s - late 50s and had moderate success against many corps, including Cabs, Archie, Reilly, Westshoremen, Yankee Rebels, Rockets, others. About a dozen of members went to / from the USAF D&BC at Bolling AFB, Washington (three from the junior corps later went to the USAF Academy corps, one to the USAF Pipe Band at Bolling). The junior corps was formed by the AL post after the Srs disbanded and after 2 years of parades, hit the field in 62 or 63. They won PA AL and VFW state championships from 67-69 (Richee Price played for the White Roses Junior corps during this run and was one of several excellent soloists) then went into decline and folded in the early 70s. Independently, some members of the previous corps formed a senior corps in 1974-75 and joined RCA where they competed for two seasons before folding for, probably, the last time. I played snare with the junior corps and then, after the service, taught DL for the RCA corps. AND....I think there was also another RCA corps from Ohio in the mid 70s as well: Ohio Brass Factory. Don't remember much about them other than John Flowers worked with the drum line for a couple years. Steve

More from Round Robin / Eastern States circuits (PA, NJ, MD, DC, DE) Ridley Park Rangers, Philly area St, Mary's Lancers, Balto., MD The Pennsylvanians, Philly area West Reading, guess where Vasella Musketeer, Upper Darby, PA Dundalk Cadets, Balto area Starlighters, Westminster, MD Zorro Raiders, MD Rebel Devils, MD Royal Sabres, Wash., DC VIPs, Wash., DC Diamond State Cadets, DE Blue Rock, Wilmington, DE Sehler Sedan Cadets, Coatesville, PA White Knights, Balto, MD Rising Sun Cadets, Philly Media Fawns, Media, PA 507 Hornets, Philly area Keystone Regiment, Philly area Chessmen, Easton, PA White Roses, York, PA Phila PAL, guess where Crusaders, Mannville, NJ Liberty Bell, Philly area Pensauken Vagabonds, NJ Levittown _____? ________ Crusaders, Philly area Bucktail Regiment, upstate PA Cambria Cadets, W PA ...off the top of my head. SKY

Yes, Memorial Stadium was pretty cool; think it's been torn down several years ago...too bad! BUT...for all you central PAers (and a little beyond), WAY BACK in the 60s, there was always a great Memorial Day weekend show at McCaskey HS in Lancaster. This opened the season for most of the corps. York (Jr) was always there (the hometown kids?) and the regular NJ, DE, MD corps: St Mary's Lancers, Blue Rock, Vagabonds, Bellaires, others from the Phillie/SJ area, but there would also always be a good NYC corps (St Rocco's, Kingsmen, Ridgemen) and NE corps (Pittsfield Cavaliers, Braintree Warriors, etc). Fun days. The stadium was great and the show continued strong till around 1970 or so. Steve ps: was going to put this in the memorial day topic but this fit both pretty well...and this one's more recent!

The name "White Roses" - kind of a sore (thorny?) subject. First of all, why would a bunch of kids want to be called "roses" and have to compete against Knights, Lancers, Crusaders, Warriors, etc. That sucked! Given we had a mix of urban and suburban kids and that it was the 60s, we really wanted to be called "The Checkers." It better described and suited us! The name actually derives from English history and the royal houses of Lancaster (the Red Rose) and York (the White Rose) and their battles for the throne. Hey, at 13-17 who the F___ cares about that stuff. Unfortunately, they never told us that, nor did they give the mini-history lesson to the audience who was generally looking to be blown away, not regaled by floral arrangements. For the most part, we were just a bunch of d_____ flowers. I still think that was one of the biggest strikes against the corps. For example, at least Blue Rock = hard! With that said................ Don't get me started!!!!!! Good luck to the baseball team in my ol' hometown. Hope they choose a better moniker this time around. (BTW, there was a farm league team (Phillies?) in York in the 50s and 60s. Guess what their name was!!!!!!! PS: Red rose, White Rose, Memorial Day......reminds me of the days when YWR's season started with a "big" show at Lancaster on M-day. Blue Rock, St. Rocco's, OLPH, Kingsmen, Garfield and other big names would come there/here and "welcome" us to competition for the year.

Wow...these names keep coming! Jeff, Skip Groff was an ex-USAF D&BC soprano player from Lancaster Co. He taught many corps including Hanover, the YWR (he developed their fine hornline - finally) among others. He passed away, probably in the early 90s. The Skip you're probably thinking of was Skip Rizzuto who taught numerous bands along with partner Rick Weidner, both York Jr. horn players. They did Lancers drill 1982 (?), when Hannum did percussion and another ex-Crossmen, Gary (?) had the hornline. Christie may have gone to YR as well; if he did, he didn't stay there too long, either. Best Steve PS: JimF, got a real rundown on Hanover's rain parades from Foss; 52 horns!!! and a big drum line. Must have felt pretty nice. There's another USAF DBC horn player there, besides KB Oiler and, of course, Foss, ,,,his name is Jan something, also from York.

Steve F.....I'm sorry you took that comment as a compliment. It was really intended to be a quick swipe at ya! Try to remember - (no, not the song), the years 70 and 71 at WSBS. Do the words tymp and outsiders ring any bells for ya? Try reaaaallllll hard...you should know me ...or maybe it was one of your brothers I knew best. My recollection is the Fillipelli with a fixation on JC Superstar... and oh, yeah, a beard. Benb...most of us had a hard time seeing Templin marching - AND playing - at the same time...and we were there! Our watching was almost as hard as the doing was for him! I can vouch that he didn't have the megaphone while doing Danville! Re. York's horns etc., I'd gone into the USAF by the time Ritchee (and the hornline) was really coming on but there was a Denny Mumford that was in the solo group and I don't remember who else by then...Craig just doesn't ring a bell. As for York guys that went to WSBS....not many of us did. Zarfoss got two of us to come create a tymp line for him in 70, but even then there were no bells players, so I can't help you with the bells guy from YWR in the late 70s. Gary Hamme (SD, YWR) departed after a year (70) on tymps, I stayed another year (but switched to SD) while Foss was writing / teaching. A trips player, Randy Christie, was there for a short while too with Foss. Someone mentioned Paul Titel. He left York Jrs. after several years to go to Flowers' DL with the Bucs around 67 or 68, then came back to teach YWR drumline around 70 till they folded. Billie Toomey and Templin, I think, stayed on, I don't know how much longer. Hershman, having attempted drumline and hornline, was yet to find his real niche in corps! It's fun reading about the great times you guys had at WS when they were climbing to and at the top. Some good fun was had, though, even in those early tough years; it was just a bit harder to make! later, Steve

Ah....the Milton connection! JimF, that's just upstream a piece (a big piece), wunst. Jeff and Jim: I think Templin and a few others (I remember a rifle guy named Gelaze) got themselves to Hbg. then rode the rest of the way to York with the Toomey clan (and Cathy F.) What a crew! Jim: There are actually "old" guys from York still able to march!!! I can still "critique/blather." So was the guy you reminisced with Wales, Simmons, KB....or Foss? Be well, you two. See ya. Steve WS- 1st tymp line (w/Gary H, Kurt ?) - Zarfoss instructor WS- snare 71 w/ Satch, Skee, Tom R and Steve M - Zarfoss instructor

Right on "Wild Bill" and Templin, Jeff, but.....AL Post 127 of York, PA, sponsored a senior corps that competed at least as early as the 1950s. I remember seeing some of their shows which included Reilly, Archie, Hawthorne, YR, Pittsburgh and others around 56-59. Around 1960, with interest waning, they formed the junior corps. In addition to those guys, York also had a couple "good" sopranos like Ritchee Price, Dave Hughes among others. The consistently good drum line, topped all juniors and seniors at 1964 AL states. The corps won PA VFW & AL championships 67-69. The draft took a high toll and the corps folded in the early 70s. Steve

Been reading the discussion about the York (yes, they were from PA) Whites Roses and had to chime in with some "history" as I'd been an instructor from near beginning to the end. YWR was formed by a few ex-members of the successful 1960s jr. corps. Most of the ex-junior had already gone on to corps such as Bucs, YR, WS, Hanover, etc. Equipment was scrounged up from ex-members and from the Crispus Attucks, where an unsuccessful attempt had been made to start another junior corps. They had, I believe one, maybe two, years of field competition with a small corps made up mostly of rookie members, very young and old - with only a handful of experienced players from the old junior corps - a challenging start! Last and next to last place finishes marked its initiation to competition. The informal "merger" with members from the Chocolatiers helped the corps immensely bringing some veteran players to the game. Ron Rudy was director, Whitey Roberts did the drill, Bill Taberling did the horns and Steve Young, drums. The corps practiced in York and marched under the name of YWR only; although the Hershey name was possibly used in the corps' introduction to acknowledge the "partnership" of the two, and no doubt much more would have been announced at their home show. I was there, but notice that announcement...guess I was distracted. That merger lasted only a year. The following winter, with the loss of the Hershey contingent (mostly horns) a number of remaining members began migrating to the much more stable and successful Hanover Lancers, located about 20 miles away. The corps never made it to the field, or even the street after that. Don't know what ever happened to the corps hall, uniforms or equipment or history. They worked hard, made progress and were proud of their efforts and limited successes in such a short period of time. JimF...ask Wales, Foss or Wally R about YRW. Steve PS: Hey, Fillipelli......is that you, ....the bearded wonder of '70 and '71?