jordsterr

Star 93 is indeed my all time favorite show. But....the rotating airplane of the Cadets was 92. 93 was when the kings go off to war. Also a classic.

Star beat Cadets for the first time '86... we finished 8th at finals... Cadets 4th? We also beat Madison that year. Everyone assumed that we would then stay ahead of Madison. Until we didn't.

The actual rule is: Last on is the host corps ( or the previous year's champion at a regional) Then a draw from slots from the previous year. I can't remember if the draw is in slots of 4 or 6.

I had to laugh a little when I read this. I have a keychain that I still use today. It says "Garfield...It looks like art because it is." I bought this in 1985 when I was having so many arguments with people who insisted that the Garfield Cadets were "not drum corps." I love the fact that all of the shows you listed were directly influenced by this "Not drum corps" was doing. (OK...not so much the 85-87 SCV)

Yes. I sat next to people all over the country who did just that.

Not saying that at all.. Just that the Cadets are just dirty now. Based on their past history, I expect them to get much cleaner. So will everyone else I'm sure.

And justto tag team myself. Boston also were ahead of Cadets in visual in Toledo. I'm a Cadets homer, but it was definitely correct. Boston is just cleaner now.

I have to say that I love the Bluecoats, and they definitely got better from Saturday to Sunday. That said, Mark Hart is actually a very decent judge, and he was absolutely correct. Bluecoats have some real meat that is just filthy right now. It will get better, but it would not be appropriate to give them the number when their feet need some real cleaning. Franly, y advice would be to bring Stephanie Furniss back.

While you may indeed be correct about who ends up where, I can't see blaming the judges or the judging process itself unless you prefer that they pick the winner from a hat. I was at Toledo and Dublin, and without a doubt, the corps were put in the correct order by how well they performed that night. I did have different preferences in terms of the actual shows, but I could not argue with the fact that the correct order was established by how the kids themselves actually performed what they had. Of course, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong.

We kicked off our marching band season with "getting to know you" rehearsal just before the end of the school year. A neighbor actually called the police because the drums were playing. Mind you...it was about 7:00 PM. The policeman's reaction was awesome. "Do you believe the **** I have to put up with? if you don't want to hear the band, don't buy a house next to the high school." Classic.

The real question is whether or not you signed a contract. If you did, you are obligated to corps A.

1. SCV - I'm a Cadets homer, but Fiedler's move will help. 2. Cadets - They should really win!! 3. Cavaliers - Samurais. Cool. 4. Phantom - I am Spartacus!! 5. Devs - always really good 6. Crown - hooray! 7. Blue Knights - great hornline, and the best barrel rolls in DCI. 8. Boston - smart design 9. Bluecoats - They made the wrong staff replacement choice. 10. Glassmen - color guard will be amazing 11. Crossmen - back in with Planet X 12. Colts - solid all the way around 13. Acaedmy - lots of good hype 14. Spirit - just mssing 15. Blue Stars 16. Madison - sigh...I really miss them. 17. Troopers 18. Pacific Crest 19. Mandarins 20. Pioneer

I see your point. But you're not entirely correct. Beethoven's Third was roundly criticized, but it did set the stage for later works. His "Battle of Wellington" was the 95 Madison of the day....not so much the 5th Symphony. All of Mahler's work was the 93 Star of the day. Mozart's "Le Nozze di Figaro" was more like the 93 Star of the day, but don't confuse fact with the movie Amadeus. "Die Zauberflote" was indeed the 95 Madison of it's day. So, I would submit to you that, in our little community, maybe there is really less difference between shows than we want to admit.

There is a reason that the Crossmen are no longer part of YEA. It was stated pretty cleary by them that they could not afford to run two corps. That is certainly a businees decision that their board has to make. I would, however, love to see them create a division 2 corps. Of course, the current economic situation may not be helpful in that regard. Nevertheless, I'm sure we can all acknowledge that the current rules state that the Cadets are not allowed to fiedl more than 150. In a public school setting, I can pretty much serve as many as walk in the door.

Mozart was indeed one of the first to choose not to have a court position. That was somewhat of his choosing. Most of his most innovative stuff was when he was not writing on commission. Beethoven was one of the first to be financially successful as an independent contractor. His 3rd Symphony was widely criticized as being too long and not what people wanted to hear. Mahler was considered way too long and involved. His music was called "scheissemusik" by members of the Vienna Philharmonic all the way to when Bernstein pretty musch forced them to accept it. One does indeed need to know one's audience. But I would submit that if it weren't for those who were willing to try something that might be considered controversial or even unpopular at the time, some of the truly wonderful things we've seen might not have occured. Does anyone argue against the pit anymore? I say all of this fully admitting that my all time favorite show from the first time I saw it is Star of Indiana '93.

This is obviously a heart felt post. I think I undersand where you're coming from, but I feel the need to argue a couple of points. The first point is about the local or neighborhood drum corps. Yes, there were a lot more corps when the American Legion, VFW and CYO sponsored them. Yes, this started to diminish when DCI started to attract more corps to the DCI championships rather than the other nationals. But it was in large part those organizations themselves that led to this. They weren't paying well and rules were arbitrary and often in conflict between associations. The corps wanted to be able to control their own destinies to some extent If only the CYO, American Legion and VFW had been willing to compromise, DCI might never have been necessary. Nevertheless, I have no doubt that those organizations would have stopped their sponsorships anyway as kids' interests and opportunities have changed significantly over the last 40 years. I agree that there needs to be that activity for kids who need something and choose an activity that gives them a musical outlet. By and large, that is the band, orchestra choir program in schools across the country. I know that there are some places where music is in trouble, but I can't imagine that the fact that local citizens won't support a tax levy to support school programs would be a community where a drum corps would be supported either. <<Drum & Bugle corps USED to be about kids but has strayed far away from it's roots while in the quest for the "cutting edge". There are many people to blame for leaving the kids behind and it's NOT all the fault of any one person or even a group of people. I would bet that many people that are unhappy about the direction directed it towards Mr. Hopkins because he is so vocal about his vison of drum corps. ( remember, drum corps = marching band ) >> Whether anyone wishes to agree or not, George is absolutely correct. In the eyes of almost everyone who knows little about this activity, "marching band" is exactly what they see. Whether or not you agree, that has nothing to do with "the kids." Either the activity is for the members or it's not. If they were to all bang on trash can lids and play kazoos, it's either for the kids or not. What does that mean? Are they providing quality instructions? Is the travle safe? Is the food plentiful and nutritious? Would I send MY KIDS on the road with them? Sadly, I can point to a great number of corps that people ofetn refer to as traditional and "for the kids" that I would never send any kid to. My sister marched for a time in one such. I had the great misfortune to teach one myself, and I'm still appalled at what the management of that corps did to the kids (and the staff for that matter!!) <<It was HIS push about the 6 or 8 supercorps and spoke about it openly. >> OK, so we want more corps. True. But when there were 400 corps in this country, were they doing the national tour? No. They did local contests and parades with MAYBE a trip to a national event. That sounds familiar to me. That's high school band. So, if we want more corps, how can we do that? Were not most of the corps instructors in that era volunteering perhaps as a service to the church or community? What's to stop you (or me for that matter...I'm a band director too) from volunteering to create a local drum corps. I'll bet there are churches around (or local band rooms?) where kids could come with their band instruments to get instruction . Does that mean that they need to be the Cavaliers? No. How many of those 400 were the Cavaliers? How many were local parade corps? <<Mr. hopkins has done wonderful things for the Cadets and in turn has helped bring drum corps to new levels most of us would have never dreamed of. But, at the same time, that very same path has left many kids sitting on the side of the road. It's a hard decision to make, do you do whats best for the activity to help grow it and involve more people or do you whats best to bring it to higher levels which adds to the shrinking of the activity ? I had to face that very decision regarding my band program. I made the choice to include and reach more kids. Was it because I was older and wiser ? well, I know I'm older for sure..............>> There's a dichotomy here. George created a great experience for the kids he was able to reach. But the rules stated that he could only have 128. He led the push to increase to 135. Then to 150. Was this a push to create fewer corps or to give more kids the opportunity to be with those corps that give a great experience? Again, those corps will be the ones that teach, feed them and transport them in such a way that I can feel good about. Gone should be the days when kids are eating popcorn for dinner and cereal with water. So let's talk about the kids who come to the Cadets and why they have to turn them away. In your program, you say that you created more room for more kids. Mine too. Here's the difference. I can and do take evryone who wants to come. The drum corps rules only allow 150. But don't blame George for that. The Cadets turn kids away because they are only allowed 150. If DCI would allow no limit, I would be interested to see how many kids the Cadets take. I would not be surprised if it were a great number indeed. So where do the kids who are not accepted go? There are many division 2 and 3 corps out there who would love to have them. Those opportunities are there. How many div. 3 corps could be filled with the cuts from the Cadets, Cavaliers, Phantom, etc.? So it's not the desire to improve one's self. It's the desire to be at the top without doing what's necessary to get there. That's not a drum corps problem. That's an America problem. I'm not a "blame America firster," but that particular issue in ournational psyche is real. <<Drum corps to me was supposed to be about the KIDS and FOR the kids. Somewhere, somehow, that seems to be forgotten. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it was never supposed to be that way but thats not what my heart tells me.>> <<Those "kids" are better athletes than most sports programs. Those "kids' are for the most part, better educated musically than most of the band directors I know of including myself. Those "kids" are paying as much to march drum corps as many kids pay for private school education.>> These two points of your are in contrast. Back when the corps were about keeping kids off the streets, they needed the instruction. They were often coming in as novices. They were not the well educated athletes that they often are today. Can we create those opportunities for kids today? Yes!! Do they need a million dollar budget, state of the art equipment and a national tour? No!! You answer your own point. This is NOT the same activity. Can we have your old activity? IS it necessary? Yes. But realize that what we call drum corps today, while being a significant and often life changing activity, is not what our grandparents did. <<This is no longer the day and age where you marched in a corps because it was the only corps in your home town. these young adults make some pretty serious decisions about who they want to audition for and who they end up marching with. These "kids" are the cream of the crop. These " kids" will be successful no matter what they do, they are not the ones who NEED our applause ( please don't misunderstand me, I DO applaude them no matter who they march with ) What about the real kids who NEED drum corps to help make them productive citizens ? What about the fat kids, the slow kids, the kids who are not perfect, the kids who can't march at 178 ?. The kids like me? what about them ? What about the kids that don't have the relatives to help pay tour fees ? what about the kids who can't afford to take a whole summer away from work ?>> True. Again, different kids with different needs. So, let's some of us start some corps that develop those basic skills for the local kids. <<But as long as they keep us bickering amongst ourselves about things like narration, they think we will not notice whats happening right in front of our eyes. Look at how many kids have been excluded over the past 15 years as opposed to have many could have been INcluded.>> Why are they being excluded? Is it money? (often a real issue) Is it the size limit? Is it kids limiting themsleves becasue they will only march in a div 1 corps? <<It's just that I see so many kids that need so much help, and yet the very activity that gave ME the most help in life is so unreachable to them that it doesn't just make me sad, it p##### me off.>> Why is it unreachable? You do have a local program that does these things for kids. It's your own band program. Like it or not, you ( and I :} ) are the stewards of the activity that gave us so much. Whether you do all brass or you include woodwinds or you have a majorette line, what is the significant difference between what you and I do for kids and what those guys in the bingo hall of the old church did? They provided a significant musical experience and more importantly a LIFE EXPERIENCE for kids. If it's unreachable because of the money required to join a group that does a national tour, that has always been the case. If it was desirable by most kids to be in a corps where you can work during the week and tour on the weekend, then Capital Sound would be inundated rather than reforming. There are simply kids for whom it's all or nothing. I'm not trying to stir up an argument. This is simply how I see it. Whether I like narration or not is immaterial. I believe in what the Cadets (and the Cavaliers, SCV, Madison, etc.) are doing. I got a great experience in the Cadets. I hope to recreate that experience in some part for the kids with whom I'm blessed to come in contact.

LOL. Exactly. Because from 1982 to 2004, that's all everyone did. Just talkin' about how great the kids were. <sarcasm off>

Central Ohio

It is indeed true that there are places where the school board has not done it's job. Or the people in town did not pass a levy. It is a rotten thing when students don't get the things they need including textbooks and safe buildings. This exact issue of unequal funding has been in front of the Ohio Supreme Court (who abrogated their responsibilites) and is now one of the main things our governpr is working on. Nevertheless, there are far more public and private music programs all over this country than there were ever drum corps. Even with all that there is to compete for the time of the young people, there are far more competitive marching bands than there were ever corps. That doesn't count the places where directors choose not to compete with marching band ( a valid educational choice) and places where the choice is not to march at all. There are hundreds of thousands of public and private school students studying band, orchestra and chorus all over this country. But let's look seriouslt at the competitive marching band. An average group may have rehearsals during the week, might do 4 or 5 contests over the season and may go to a larger regional or national event every now and then. This is exactly what drum corps was in that golden age that people talk about when drum corps was for "keeping kids off the streets."

[ Tell you what, though, George: drop the fees down to about 250 dollars for a Cadets "Cadet" corps, go into inner city Philadelphia and get some kids together and give them some drum line equipment (get Yamaha, etc to donate it) and create a few lines to compete against each other regionally. There's your entry point into the multicultural world of today...which sounds suprisingly like the entry point many, many years ago people used to get kids off the street and into a little thing called drum corps. Funny, no? I won't hold my breath to see that happen, though. This actually already exists all over the country. It's called high school band, and it's the reason that we no longer need the VFW and the American Legion and the CYO to sponsor this activity. You may not prefer the fact that instrumentation is not the same in this activity that it was in the 1960's drum corps, but the goal is just the same.

Also, kudos to the people who were there before U of L. Patrick was a member of the Atherton HS band in Louisville. His director Sarah McClave is an awesome teacher who spent many hours teaching him not only how to play the trumpet but also every single note so that he could play in concert and marching band. She also taught him jazz piano which he played in jazz band. He also had a great piano teacher (who's name I do not know) who taught him from an early age. Patrick is an amazing guy. I got to work with the Atherton band at camp for a couple of years at camp. Patrick has the most amazing attitude ever. And his dad really is that nice. Jordi Vilanova

1987 St. Louis Busch Stadium - DCI regional - I don't remember what it was called. Southwest? or something like it. Back then we had the old gabardine wool uniforms. At prelims, coming off the field I looked up at the board that had the field temp at 118. Not fun! The finals were rained out. Jordi

Dave, I'm so glad to hear that things went well. I'm praying for you. Do you still have a cassette tape of me singing country songs for rookie talent? Jordi

Most of the districts in my area of Columbus, OH have some sort of pay to play fee. The marching bands have especially been subject to this. When I first started in this district 10 years ago, the fee was $675. The school where I now teach has a much more reasonable fee of $275 which covers band camp, staff, equipment, design and costuming. Obviously, we also need fund raisers.

Without a doubt, Garfield 84. Goundbreaking ib every way. Proof that that kind of visual package was possible. That the total but not literal concept could win. Perhaps most grounbreaking was the ensemble concept. The side to side was so new. Barb Maroney. sigh This was my favorite show. Until 85 Garfield. Then 87 and 88. Anyone who wishes to have a real feel for the modern era of drum corps needs to study this show!!