camel lips

I have one remaining DEG wilson 3 valve contra to sell. $999.00 on closeout+ shipping and creating charges.Serious inquires only. Standard bell with several small dents over the instrument.All slides and valves work flawlessly.Finish looks decent with finish missing from the usual spots around the hand holds.Horn should clean up nicley. One of our members is keeping the other one I have for ransom. B)

Send all the extra sops my way please. :P

would you be interested in any two valve baris?DEG? email me if your interested edwardamason@comcast.net

Gary,if you run across any sops or mellos that you do not have any interest in please let me know.

You make a excellent point

Well, first and foremost, it comes down to the players preference...this I concede. However, your facts are not true on pricing. The best price I can find for a stock Bach 37 is $1465. Kanstul signature line are out there new for less than one hundred more than that ($1525). It is not my intent to argue with you, I just want the facts to be represented correctly. Also, if you compare prices of Getzen's higher quality trumpets, which are fine horns, the prices are in the same ball park, if not more. Pax, A new Strad 180 can be bought for $1290 B)

I guess its a matter of semantics.We consider the Mello part of the high brass family. Bari's and Contras are in the low brass side. I guess its just how different corps label their sections.

TRUE,Very true. I was trying to keep it on apples and oranges basis. :P Even discounted you can buy a Bach or Getzen at a much lower price than a Kanstul.Are Kanstul trumpets worth it?Maybe. They certainly have more models and sizes to choose from.Basically you can get a horn built by them exactly the way you want it and chances are its in stock.

Best thing I can tell you is get a decent medium cup mouthpiece Like a 7c bach and practice lip slurs and the 20 min G exercise a bunch.Don't go to a shallow mouthpiece right off the bet even if it brings you up a few notes in range. Your lips need time to flex and your chops need a chance to tighten up.I know that might sound like a oxymoron but its true. Good luck.

Of course, that begs the question - why buy a trumpet for $1300 when you can buy a G soprano for half that price? Hmmm..... Back to hiding I go. Man you won't get any argument out of me there. I might add this though. The quality of the Kanstul bugles is good but not as good as a professional line Kasntul.Kanstul charges $2000 bucks and up for a professional trumpet.As you can see there has to be a bunch of cut backs in production quality for the bugles to only cost $700 bucks.Kanstul bugles are more like a intermediate trumpet.For the money Kanstul still has a decent value on thier line of bugles.The resale value on a Kanstul is extreamly high where the resale value of a DEG is almost non exsistant.Just look at how many used DEG sops there are out there for $200 bucks compared to almost no used Kanstul sops selling for upwards of $400 bucks. Something I found out about recently.DEG stands for Donald E Getzen who is actually a brother of the founder of the Getzen corp.He branched out on his own in the 60's to make the DEG line.Make no mistake about it a DEg horn is not in the same class as a professional grade Getzen horn.DEG never made a horn in thier life.DEG horns are contracted out to various bidders from many different countries over the years.God only knows who build what horns what years.Some of the DEG "trumpets" were contracted out to Allied who recently sold back the Getzen company back to the family after years of running the Getzen name into the ground with less than stellar quality control. I am glad to see a Getzen at the control's once again.They are putting out some splended horns.If you get a chance to try out one of the new 700's next to a Dynasty 2000 or a Kanstul col103 I think you are going to be blown away by the performance of that horn over the Dynasty or the Kanstul and the great thing about it is you can buy a Getzen 700 for around $625.Step up to a 900S classic and you are playing on a horn that rivals most Bach's and Yamaha's.

I think when it comes to high brass no one comes closer to doing it right than Kanstul.Just about everyone in the sop section has switched from Dynasty to Kanstul.Dynasty high brass intonation from note to note just seems very poor.The horns are very loose and all over the place. The same cannot be said for the low brass.They seem to be about neck and neck.I think it all comes down to personal preference with those guys. Kanstul doesn't discount their bugles like a lot of the major supporters of drum corps do and this is disappointing.With more and more corps switching to b flat I think this will come back to haunt Kanstul down the road.With 20,000+ marching Drum corps each and every year that is a lot of new horns that are going to have to be purchased. No one inside drum corps is going to pay $2000 bucks for a b flat trumpet from Kanstul when they can buy a brand new BAch or Getzen for around $1300. Of course I could be wrong.There are exceptions to every rule.

You could add my name to that same list.I have been looking for Kanstul's for over a year now and they are few and far between.

I have been in a B flat trumpet buying frenzy after joining a local community band.I have a old bach Strad that I gave to my son.After trying several Modern Bach's I was discouraged about the Bach Quality of today.Valves needed alignment. Kanstul makes some decent horns but for my money look around at some Get zen 900's or the Conn Vintage 1.Both are in the $1300 range but boy do you get a load for that money. The Get zen 700 is a great little intermediate trumpet as well as the Kanstul 610.The Get zen sells for around $600 and the Kanstul for about $450 in lacquer. Paul at the brass shop has some used Dynasty 2000's.Not my cup of tea at all but it has some neat featurs.At $400 bucks its a steal.

Thanks Charles for your insight on this subject. I think it really just comes down to semantics. When I play a trumpet in the community band I want to be called a "trumpet" player because that is what I am playing at the time. When I am playing with the Legend I want to be called a soprano bugle player because I am playing a soprano bugle. Like wise I have talked with other Contra players that are extremely insulted when they are called a "tuba' player when in fact they are not.They play a "contra" not a "tuba". Getting back to semantics its clear that Kanstul and Dynasty have a clear understanding of what is a bugle.You don't see them calling the instruments they build in b flat a bugle.They call them what they are a TRUMPET and a TUBA! Scott,I have found out since my original post that BAch and Yamaha both make and market a "g" trumpet.Designed as an alternate to the high F trumpet for the performance of Bach’s Brandenburg Concerto No. 2 (for example, the difficult high G-A trill can be played one step lower as an F-G trill). Well suited for baroque clarino parts. Optional slides available to tune to F. Might have to order one of those and see how it plays up against the Powerbore bugle.

Thanks for clearing that up! :sshh:

I want to buy a King G soprano or Mellophone.Does anyone have one they want to sell? Does anyone know if King ever made a 3 valve soprano in G?

Does Yamaha still make a G soprano bugle?

I don't know how to say this without it coming out wrong.I consider anyone on this board to be a member of my family. BUT! I don't ever want to buy a instrument from you.Oil should be applied to your valves at each session. WHY? First off oils tend to break down any loose particles that may be in the horn.Also Oil tends to get gummy.Then there is the heat factor that valves produce from being repeatedly pushed up and down.Heat breaks down oil faster than anything. Oil also mixes with your saliva and the natural condensation that your horn builds up internally.Oil and water do not mix well together.IT is important before each session to wipe down your valves with a rag (preferably cheese cloth) and oil them.Even better to do it at the end of a session so all of the gunk that built up during a session gets out of the horn. Hope this did not come off as something offensive.Just educational.

Let us know what you think.

I am not sure what you call it but I have a Getzen alto (mello) with a 8 inch bell that has the sweetest tone to it and it screams in the high ranges. I haven't played it yet with the group but might try it out this weekend.

BTW Chris Comer at A minor Tune up is one of the nicest, most knowledgeable person I have come to meet in this industry.I would recommend him for all of your repair needs and concerns. You can contact him at his email address. aminortuneup@yahoo.com he also post's on this oard from time to time.

The clear is for tight valves.The red is for really fast valves or valves that are worn in good.Hope this helps. More information here. http://www.aminortuneup.com/lubricants.htm Professional quality horns have valves which are carefully honed to more perfectly match their valve casings. They are generally lapped by hand using a procedure which yields a much smaller gap between the piston surface and the valve casing. This, in turn, results in a tighter fitting valve. There are significant benefits to this approach, but some precision valves are so tight that, without a special valve oil, the valves tend to seize in the casing after a short playing time. In other words, very small changes are exaggerated when playing a professional quality horn. Musicians who make their living with their horn require an oil that not only is exceedingly fast and smooth, but also an oil that must not slow down during their performance. To meet the challenge, the paradox of two competing properties: high speed and endurance, had to be solved. In 1991, MusiChem embarked on a new research program based on 20 years experience, laboratory testing of numerous candidate components, and intensive field testing by more than 50 world class musicians working in all kinds of playing conditions. The oil that resulted from this unparalleled effort employs synthetic and non-synthetic components, hence the name PRO-OIL HYBRID was chosen. The current formula (141-A7) is the first in a generation of maximum performance piston valve oils. This colorless and odorless oil does not contain kerosene, silicone, or Teflon, and therefore will not cause a build up. It is sold in a protective clear package, and contains important information about cleaning the valves and valve casings prior to the first application of HYBRID. When it comes to professional quality hyper-tight piston valves, no other valve oil compares to PRO-OIL HYBRID (141-A7). PRO-OIL HYBRID is guaranteed to be the fastest, longest lasting piston valve oil in the world or your money back. No other company can or does make that claim. PRO-OIL RED (2 oz) $4.00 (8 oz- $8.00) Most production horns, generally have valve/casing clearances with wider tolerances than more expensive hand crafted professional horns. The demands on these pistons valves are less severe than for tighter fitting professional horns, and PRO-OIL RED formula is perfect for these horns. This oil has a low viscosity (hence it is fast), but it also has a relatively low evaporation rate (hence it lasts a long time). The original formula (introduced in 1972) had a cinnamon fragrance. Two changes were made in the past few years: it is now odorless because the fragrance was removed, and the lasting quality of the oil was improved by incorporating some ideas discovered during research on Hybrid. Like all other MusiChem products, this formula does not contain kerosene, silicone or toxic components. It is equally effective on both nickel plated valves and Monel valves. With the singular exception of our HYBRID Formula valve oil, PRO-OIL Red is faster and lasts longer than any other piston valve oil on the market.

For really tight fitting valves I suggest you take a good hard look at Pro Oil. Its a synthetic blended oil and has made a big difference in the way my new Kanstul feels.

http://home.hvc.rr.com/jmitchell1/ Excellent read.Thank you.

Thanks dans.I sent the info out. Take care.