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Jeff Ream

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Posts posted by Jeff Ream

  1. 33 minutes ago, Chief Guns said:

    I don't remember it getting any love LMAO. 

    Besides during that 2011 season, I was too busy protecting the western front for us BD fans ensuring we didn't get out-flanked by the ABBD crowd lol. So you may be correct. 

    the music chosen wasn't exactly stuff i'd choose to listen to, but it was presented in a more flowing way...like complete thoughts/passages than they had done since Godfather, and they did it in a way that got some old school BD vibe. but the whole building of the house led to a zillion Extreme Home makeover okes ( probably half by me) and it made everything look way too cluttered.

    and that Cadets that summer had Jeff's masterpiece visually and Crown channeled their inner ELP had shows more loved to the general populace. but i don't remember nearly as much dislike as for the 3 years prior and 2 after

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  2. 4 hours ago, BG984 said:

    Sorry, but I am not hung up on "just 16 years ago"....I am not going to write a big thing, but in effect, especially those judges with visual/guard backgrounds, have given many questionable results over the years.  I never stated that I think GE should simply be a "crowd o meter" of audience reaction........that said, if the judges are going to be oblivious to audience reaction and only respond to what they like as an individual, then they need to rename the caption, or it should not even be scored/utilized any more.  The main just of my article (which has pretty much been left alone, because the numbers speak for themselves) is that in a 6 year time frame, the 30% scoring edge in music was whittled to zero.  As I and others have pointed out, these things had to be voted on and approved by the directors.  Do we have better shows as a result of these changes?  Some will say yes, some will say no.......but the move away from musical emphasis is undeniable.

    Ge has never been and never will be a what the fans want sheet. have you even seen recent versions of the sheet? the more you reply the more its apparent you feel effect is to match what you consider popular, and that isn't how GE has ever been. yes the activity has slowly moved away from music being the overhwelming focus because the activity has eveolved drastically visually. i'm sorry you want to compare scores from the days of color pre, squads, guideons etc to where the activity is today and your article is all abount IMO a false narrative trying to compare two things that are very different as if they're to be on the same level. they aren't drum corps today is very different from drum corps in 1972, and a large reason for that is how much the visual side of the game has changed. And quite frankly, elevator drill and matching pictures stopped being effective 40 years ago.

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  3. 4 hours ago, Chief Guns said:

     

    We (In General) need to keep it real. We say we want chaos in the numbers/placements/scores. But when it happens, we lose our freaking minds and it's Armageddon in this forum. We have had some regionals over the last few seasons where numbers were all over the place, and we saw people flipping out and calling out judges for their favorite corps finishing let's say 3rd overall, but 8th in a particular caption/subcaption for an example. 

    So basically, what we as fans are saying is............."Give us the scoring chaos with numbers and placements being topsy turvy................as long it doesn't happen to and/or affect the corps that I root for."

    this

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  4. 6 hours ago, BigW said:

    Thank you, Jeff. I'll share experience I've had at least twice. Don't know if you or your spouse have had this one:

     

    Is flipping on blinking LED vests while honking and droning inanely away while stumblebumming around while the band moms scream like crazy "effect"? Bad effect, maybe. It certainly was unforgettable; I'll give it that...

    it can be good or bad effect. theres a ton of factors that goes into it, so i can't just throw an opinion here based on that. 

  5. 4 hours ago, Chief Guns said:

    That's fair. But let me ask you this. Do you think BD fatigue at the very least plays a factor in the hatred they receive?

    Example..........

    In an alternate universe, let's say BD has zero titles. Then going into 2010 they are in the running to win their first title ever, and they do the "Thru A Glass Darkly" show.

    With no titles or BD dominance to speak of, do you think the 2010 show would be better received? Or do you think it gets the same exact response?

    some. but Cavies fatigue in the 00's and even Cadets fatigue in the 80's were tempered by the shows mostly well received.

     

    and no i dont think 2010 would have been better received in any shape or form as at that point, BD only had their 3rd in 4 years

  6. 1 hour ago, Chief Guns said:

    Spot on Jeff.

    Example.....1999. Finals in Madison Wisconsin. 

    Scouts had a PHENOMENAL show that deserved and earned every applause it got. But you can tell they was feeding off homefield advantage, and they should have. They got loudest ovation of the night. So does that mean that they should have beaten BD/SCV? Or finished in front of the Cadets or Cavies? No they shouldn't have. 

    And that's not me bashing the Scouts for all the Madison fans out there. Jesus Christ Superstar is one of my top ten favorite shows of all time. 

    Amen! I was there, and the crowd was the proverbial Rondo quote. But they weren't top 5, and i too love this show and am looking forward to the social media barrage of videos that happens at this time of year

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  7. 38 minutes ago, Chief Guns said:

    BD fatigue is probably top five biggest reasons for the hatred they receive. 

    And it's not a BD thing, it's anyone who has figured out the championship formula to consistently stay on top. 

    Society in general doesn't like dynasties...........unless it's the team/corps/player you root for lol. 

    I remember after the 2006 season, and hearing some people groaning about the Cavies winning again and wanting to see a new winner. Now it was nowhere near BD level of hate, not even in the same realm, but some were talking. 

    that and from 08-13 the shows were generally unpopular

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  8. 13 hours ago, BG984 said:

    and I wish that they did...........

     

    13 hours ago, BG984 said:

    and I wish that they did...........

    i do believe they are more than they were say 10 years ago. a lot of the things Cesario said on that day back in 09 i think was stuff he said when he started his project with DCI a decade ago. think about this....the year that whole initiative started, yeah BD won, but with their most loved show since probably 1996! And since that philosophy shift started, there's yet to be a yawner champion. Sure a few close shows that may be controversial, but in both cases effect didn't really call the show. visual performance captions did ( thinking of 15 and 19)

  9. 13 hours ago, BG984 said:

    Not exactly, but I do feel that audience response (and it is on the current sheets as "engagement") should be considered when judging effect...........I think that if a corps "brings the house down" at the end, with multiple standing ovations during their program, and another gets "golf applause", and a politely forced standing ovation only at the end, that perhaps the second group should not win effect..............

    engagement tho isn't as cut and dried as one thinks. geography can play a part. at say Crowns home show are the fans going to be more engaged for the hometown team? Sure! Should the judges solely feed off of applause? Nope. remember bringing the house down may not be universal at every stadium. Homerism is real

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  10. 8 hours ago, BG984 said:

    I actually caused a bit of a stir at a judge's conference.  The visual "guru" running things stated, "the judge must discern and determine what is "truly effective"".   My hand went up..."yes"......"truly effective.....to WHOM.....to me as a judge, or to the thousands of paid fans in the stands".  There was silence in the room, and the "guru" changed the subject within seconds.......

    i asked that at a cinic Cesario was running. his reply was "the judge needs to react like a fan"

  11. 19 hours ago, BG984 said:

    I was talking semifinals, and Cadets did indeed win both brass and percussion........I never discussed visual, but they are the first to ever win brass and percussion at a DCI world championship prelims/finals show and not win....and in fact 4th as well, not even placing.....agreed about some of the visual issues (agree that black was a mistake)....but they had much demand on the fly.....the emphasis, for a long time now, is on the perceived quality of the visual product....

     

    actually effect period. and Rondo called that out 30 years ago

  12. On 3/22/2024 at 11:04 AM, lawdn said:

    You weren’t in Indy in 2013 IIRC. My first finals experience. I was pretty stunned by the dislike for BD, but I guess it was manifested by silence instead of booing so that’s a win for civility? Of course, a dark, edgy, jazz-based show performed at a high level was right up my alley even if it had some clear design flaws.There were a number of shows I didn’t care for that year but I was jazzed to be there and stood and cheered after every show. To each their own. I do geek out on trying to understand and embrace the concept of each show on its own terms. I almost always get there but not always.

    And both you and @Chief Guns are cool 😎, but he is a phenomenon of cool 😂 

    no i wasn't. the dome left me very displeased with the sound, plus we had a baby in 2012, so hopping off to finals wasn't a way to keep family tensions in check. thought about it during teething tho LOL!

    however my take in 13 seeing them in Allentown was more people pulling for Crown and honestly just wanting someone new. 

    and i'm 90 BD cool. 

    • Like 2
  13. 6 hours ago, Chief Guns said:

    Oh my comment was speaking in general, not at anyone specific. You are one of my favorite people on this forum Jeff. All love here. 

    but i wasn't alone. I remember in 2010, more people than i ever remember leaving before the victory run. Sure, BD perfofmed great. But people didn't like the show.

     

    and you're pretty cool too!

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  14. 4 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:

    Then we have the issue of does DCIs goals match the corps goals. And how close do the individual corps goals match each other. 
    Some corps goals, if realistic just might be “freaking survive until next year”.  (Sounds familiar to me)

    here's the thing, and it may ruffle some feathers....

     

    BITD scores still mattered. think the Warren Cavies, the Royal Airs and Kilties in the 60's didn't go all out to win? or Garfield, Blessed Sac, Boston, St Kevins? Sure they did.

     

    but the pool they recruited from was different then. As were the shows. Few in corps back then went on to be HS or college band directors. those entities and drum corps were in very different camps. But as time went on, and the two camps started getting closer together and personel crossed back and forth, the recruiting pool changed, and the number of corps shrank for all of the litany of reasons discussed/debated/argued about on here, with both fatcs, opinion, and rose colred bifocals.

    and surviving until next year has long been a thing in drum corps. like since day 2. So while these are all good points to bring up in relation to this topic, it's not like these two things are only more recent developments. They've been around forever.

    • Like 2
  15. On 3/20/2024 at 7:54 AM, Keith Hall said:

    Unbeknownst to us....when DCI stopped using PBS that was the changing of show ideas for DCI corps. If you watched DCI on PBS you didn't see a 'theme" but you did hear a lot of recognizable music. 

    This is NOT "I remember when drum corps was drum corps" rant.

    I enjoyed listening to corps playing different pieces of music in their show. In the 80's we saw corps had to have a theme and even explain their concept (still do today). Who started this idea?

    Remember Blue Devils opening up with "Free" by Chicago and a concert of Mangione's "Legend of the One Eyed Sailor.' Later Mangione's "Chase The Clouds Away." Very entertaining!

    Today, although the musicianship level exceeds the level in the 70's and 80's (IMO), I find most corps boring muically and visually. 

    I watched Crown do a "parade at Disney Springs a couple of years ago and couldn't believe the guard CAN NOT March!!! They walked and talked with each other and wavered at audience. I don't recall seeing a rifle section spinning the same routine at the same time in a section. Today I see more individual work done probably to avoid mistakes. 

     

     

    ok so 88 and 89....hmm themes. Phantom of the Opera, New World Symphony...Les Miz. oh 90...Tommy, Bernstein, Carnival of Animals, Carmen...91...Miss Saigon, Cavalier Anthems, City of Angels...92...Songs for Planet Earth, more City of Angels...

     

    oh hell, 84...West Side Story.

     

    those were all years DCi showed part of finals live. 

     

    Themes had been building for a while. i think it was 1971....when drum corps died right?

  16. 49 minutes ago, BigW said:

    You can be my bodyguard! I'm really not that bad! 😋

    i just ignore people. i think the last time a fan got to me and i said something was some idiot...in a stadium not serving beer, aka JBC heckled teal Sound the year they had the rock band in the pit. Now i wasn't alone, but i knew who he was with ( a local legend in brass world) and stood up and the his friend to shut him up now. and you know the look i give with idiots, and they got it.

     

    he was quiet.

  17. 3 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:

    A guy next to me drank seven beers in Foxboro in 05.  It was none of my business.  I did do the math on how much it cost to drink seven crappy beers In that place.  He’d ran up quite a tab. 

    you wwere in Scranton. if i was an issue with 2, that guy should have looked up 4 rows by the railing at the walkway, especially by the tunnel that led to the Stadium Club.

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