93Bluecoat

Brasso, I think most of what people are upset about is what you mentioned....no details (the document openly admits that it is a work in progress). However if the G7 wants the rest of the DCI community to go along with this for 2011 as the document states, they're going to have to provide greater insight! I will say it right now publicly...I won't attend a G7 "event" as stated in this document. I like competition. I like fair competition. I like to be entertained. The only intriguing aspect to this document was allowing the fans to participate in the scoring process. It needs some tweeking for sure, but 10% of the score is great! I like this idea. There would have to be some audience education (which wouldn't be bad) about how to score. Not sure how they are going to monitor this thing through txt though. What would prevent someone in Brazil from txt'ing in a vote? This would (perhaps) force drum corps to program for the audience (which they are not doing now). I can understand why some corps are saying the damage is already done and this may not be tenable for the future. I'd be pretty ticked too. My document states that perhaps these units and DCI should let the G7 go and form their own......"thing" leaving the drum corps to the units that actually want to be drum corps. DW

After reviewing the G7 "working document" for quite some time and taking most of the day today to collect my thoughts, I wanted to share some points about this proposal and what options DCI, the corps (both G7 and non), and the fans have. I'll go point by point. Assertion #1...DCI's Fiscal Stability. In the document G7 states that DCI has dropping attendence (it does), more corps under it's umbrella than it can support (true), and change is necessary (true). So far, they are 3 for 3, you can't really agure with it. Assertion #2..."DCI's top corps drive the activity and deserve/need greater fiscal support. Corps are NOT the same. Those who drive sales through excellence and entertainment ability deserve to be rewarded." True, corps are not the same and TRUE, top corps deserve a greater share at each show. This assertion states that excellence and entertainment ability deserve to be rewarded. Ok, give the Troopers and Madison Scouts all the money because they seem to be the only corps designing with entertainment. Their assertion is true, their reasoning is incorrect. I'm LESS likely to go to a show that feature 3 of the top corps and not much else. I'm MORE likely to go to a show if 7 of the top 15 are there with a nice cross representation. G7 proposal starts to show some cracks in it's arguement..... Assertion #3..."Premiere corps are essential to DCI's success and require greater influence." Really? Are you telling me that David Glasgow of the Bluecoats carry's more perspective and requires greater attention than Mark Arnold of the Blue Knights? This assertion seems to want to keep the opinions of some at bay. In reality what it could be is a small group (Gibbs/Hopkins?) influencing the rest of the G7 corps. Are these corps "essential" to success though? How has DCI done since Star of Indiana left? If the G7 corps took their ball and left to form their own "Marchings Major League" and DCI was left with all the other member corps, wouldn't it be safe to also asert that this would only make the remaining DCI corps stronger since they could now have more money. This would essentially solve one of the problems in Assertion #1 in that DCI has too many corps to support. Cut out 7 corps that are overpaying their own staff, overpaying to ship their own personnel all over the country for audition camps, and create rules every year mandating the use of more expensive equipment, I think we'd solve a lot of problems from the get go. I think many of the fan base enjoyed DCI when there were MORE rules in place governing the shows. It was a better product. Get rid of the G7, or ahem, let them for their own tour, and suddenly DCI may have it's activity back. Madison could win in 2011! Or Boston Crusaders! I say this tongue in cheek of course but its a viable alternative. I wonder how many students (either HS or college) are going to want to be in a G7 type performing group? I enjoyed the competition, more of them the better. If I'm paying thousands of dollars to do this activity all summer, I want to do more than a Friday-Saturday-Sunday circuit. ....just my opinion I know. Assertion #4..."Corps need to be classified to assist in the marketing of the activity. Not all corps are music's major league." Ummmmm, no. The Troopers deserve the same marketing opportunities if they are a part of DCI as the Cavaliers.....the marketing should be geared to the REGION. If there's a show in Utah, Wyoming, or Colorado....the Troopers and Blue Knights should be all over the marketing. If the show is on the east coast, Crown and Cadets and so on for the Midwest, South and West. This is such a useless assertion by G7 and its really a reach at best. It also shows a poor approach toward marketing.....cheapening one brand (even though it has earning potential) for the benefit of another. I work in music retail...if I sell 1 $2000 guitar because of a promotion that I do that's great. If I work hard to sell 10 $400 guitars, I've done better. This is the approach DCI marketing should take. The rest of the assertion #4 is actually a good debate if there is a way to financially make regional corps more cost effiicient it should be explored. Assertion #5.."Events can be created to be more marketable. We can reclaim our position as marching musics elite." There's one flaw to this assertion...that the events they wish to create would be supported by a fan base that does not want any part of their bastardized version of what they call drum corps. I'm a die hard Bluecoat alum and fan but would have a tough time attending one of the "shoved down your throat" events. Later on in this document G7 proposes that these events would be geared, almost entirely, towards music education and audience interaction. Great if you are a pimply faced 16 year old with aspirations of greatness (however that's not DCI's major paying customer)....not so great if you are 38 year fan of the activity. The so called "event" really wouldn't appeal to the current DCI fan base. The last statement in this assertion says "better events will draw more attendence over time". Really? Check out how Blast is doing now? It's run it's course and so would the "schtick" of the G7 over hyped performances. It panders to the lowest common denominator. Assertion #6..."We would like to affect change in DCI." Hey, now you're talking! I think DCI knows that change is needed, but not what G7 is proposing with is to essentially dissolve the influence of the organized corps (DCI), which, mind you, most of them were a part of 38 years ago when this whole thing started. The G7 proposal essentially states in this portion of the document that DCI be stripped of most of it's personnel and their coordinatiing positions be handed over to the corps to manage (the G7 corps that is, which would mean they control any non G7 activity as well). This is unacceptable. An audit seems to be necessary to see if expenditures within DCI are necessary or could be utilized differently. I sounds as if the G7 has found some things within the DCI infastructure that are excessive and those areas need to be addressed, perhaps by an outside source (I have several on the top of my head right now that would be great). I think it would extremely premature to simply dissolve 1/2 of the DCI infastructure to appease one season. Summary of the assertions...."The preceding 6 assertions are the “truths” that drive this discussion. Within these assertions one can see where the worries and dreams lie." These are not truths. These are ghastly assumptions with foundations in what is best for 7 drum corps rather than DCI as a whole. Future Vision 1...."As we travel from town to town, we can recreate our positioning so that we are an AMERICAN CELEBRATION! We can celebrate our country, we can celebrate music, we can do all we can to support music education programs in the community near where we perform." Drum Corps is not an "American" celebration. The history has heritage in many cultures and countries other than America. This sounds eerily similar to the story of Antonin Dvorak composing the "New World Symphony" to show American composers how to compose American music. The "New World Symphony" has nothing American about it. It sounds as if it could have been the Czechoslavakian national anthem in fact. The events proposed do not NEED to be American Celebrations (it's not necessary) but creating performances and doing outreach to connect with your fans is advisable. How about programming a field show that doesn't need a libretto? Future Vision 2..."Marching music partnership. THE QUESTION IS NOT WHAT BAND PEOPLE CAN PAY FOR … it is WHAT CAN WE DO for BAND PEOPLE !!!" Ok, this is getting ridiculous. I've said this for the better part of a decade, drum corps must stop hiding behind the veil of education. They are not education and do not exist for that purpose (nor should they). This is ridiculously short sighted because 75% of the bands in America are not DCI driven in nature (most could care less, despite what these directors think). Ask a band director of a 300 member band in Texas that does A&M military drill if hanging out with the Bluecoats is high on his list of priorities. Most likely he would agree that it would be a cool thing to do, but he's not interested. He's got some precision snap turns to teach. Ask band directors in rural Eastern Kentucky, West Virginia, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana if they plan on gathering their kids up in the middle of the summer to drive two or more hours so his kids can hang out with the Blue Devils and have their staff tell him what a great band director he is. If you're a band director that "needs" this, you need to re-evaluate why you are a teacher! The "events" mentioned in this ridiculous vision are short sighted in nature because they going to pander to an excruciatingly small portion of the American band population. If marketing is one of your goals, why would you focus on such a small percentage of the market? Future Vision 3...."A partnership with pageantry. we are to go after band students, guard, dance, and other related arts and pageantry organizations. Who we are … and how we define ourselves and the relationships will be resolved but to be sure …WE CANNOT BE ISOLATED. WE NEED TO BE LIKE OUR PEERS AND STOP INSISTING WE ARE DIFFERENT AND BETTER." AGAIN, if better marketing is one of your objectives, why are we focusing on such a small portion of our audience (bands, guard, dance, related arts)? We need to stop insisting we are different and better? Why? Did anyone read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand? Being different and better is what drives capitalism and as I read this document, it would appear that money is what this is coming down to (when you sift through the rest of the bovine residue). Being better money makers (i.e. different AND better than all other mediums) would seem like a good idea. This smells too much like "WGI is doing a great job of drawing our market share, so instead of doing something to combat that, we'll just get in bed with them". The activities are no doubt linked in nature, however, what's wrong with drum corps insisting that they put out a better product than WGI? Future Vision 4...."Weekends will be supershow weekends." Apparently the proposal insinuates that there would be events Friday, Saturday and Sunday relating to the show. What fan base would utilize this? Alums don't have three days to dedicate. Bands, guards, and other arts organizations are not going to dedicate hotels and travel expenses to participate in events that are essentially gregarious in comparison to the actual show. Future visions 5-7 deal with current shows and business relationships. Not much to comment on here. Future visions 8...Cut 1/2 of the DCI staff to save money and/or redistribute the wealth. This to me, seems like a coup and raid of the DCI coffers, however after further consideration and in what I stated earlier, it would appear that some kind of external audit is necessary for the operating structure of DCI (this is actually what my brother does for a living, and yes, he's a DCI vet! Haha). Future Vision 9...Improved fiscal structure for G7 corps. This is a huge assumption. MLB hasn't done well with revenue sharing (this is essentially what this proposal is) and this plan assumes it to be the fix all for DCI problems. The next part of the G7 document deals with governance. It basically gives the G7 corps all the control. Its just not right. The next part of the G7 document deals with scoring....it is interesting, needs tweeking and discussion, but its not bad. Overall, this is bad for the activity. It assumes much and guarantees nothing. They have developed a marketing plan that targets and even smaller audience than what DCI currently has. Fiscally I don't see how this would benefit the activity as a whole because the shows would be so different. G7 performances would be totally different that touring or regional corps, so what chance would they ever have to crack into the G7? Correct, they would have none because the proposal gives the G7 a competitive advantage through better, more and increased rehearsal time. Allowing this to happen would fracture the competitive balance in nature. We'd have two different circuits confusing your fan base/consumer....and essentially diluting the brand (again, if this is truly about marketing, then lets discuss it in those terms). What CAN happen? G7 can take their idea and run with it, with no help from DCI. Create their own Marching's Major League, or whatever they want to call it. Have it live on the Ocho someday. That would leave Boston, Blue Stars, Glassmen, Troopers, Colts et. al. to pick up the people that DON'T WANT TO BE A PART OF THE G7 ORGANIZATIONS AND ACTUALLY MARCH IN A COMPETITIVE TOURING UNIT, to make the remaining organizations and shows that much better. If the Glassmen suddenly got a portion of the talent that Bluecoats, Cavies and PR had (just becuase those kids want to do drum corps and not the G7 dog and pony show), do you have confidence that they could produce a great show? I do. I think many corps could. We could see the Crossmen crack the top 4! If G7 happens with cooperation from DCI, I think we'll see a fan base so disillusioned that it will fade, kind of like Blast did over the years. That was a lot. Had to say it. I know some higher ups with disagree, but I am certain in my conviction and share the thoughts of many fans, members, staffers, volunteers, and alums. DW

David, You and I have butted heads over the years on here but we are in total agreement on this issue. Speaking as a former board member for one of the said G7 corps, this is a bad idea of epic proportions. Remember when Star of Indiana took it's ball and left in '94 over a similar concerns? Although the by product of this separation was something cool (Blast) its incarnation of success has quickly faded and the fans and alumni of Star of Indiana (and DCI) were left with a void. The G7 runs the risk of this very same thing happening to them. Some of the wording in the G7 document is disturbing in that they propose that possibly they can produce a better circuit and almost insist that DCI can't operate it's own activity. I can understand frustrations with DCI (this activity is not perfect and I think more needs to be done to help ALL corps), but to insinuate that a G7 circuit would be advisable at this point (especially with such a poor business plan) is crazy. I'm at work right now, a little riled up....will write a full response tonight....another manifesto I suppose! DW

One extraordinarily laughable portion of the G7 document (which hammers home that this is an unbelievably egocentric and poorly thought out proposal) is that drum corps is "an AMERICAN CELEBRATION! We can celebrate our country, we can celebrate music, we can do all we can to support music education programs..." If that isn't the ultimate SCREW YOU to Canadian, UK, German, Japanese and all other international corps, I don't know what is. Drum Corps "International" folks. Now, I fully realize that the money making events of the primary summer tour is in the USA, however.......just thought I'd point out the abject contradiction in this statement. Drum Corps hiding behind music education (to me) is disturbing. Drum Corps has never depended on their organizations being educational. Why? Because they aren't....still aren't. More later..... DW

I just spent the better part of an hour digesting the G7 proposal and I must say that I'm just floored at the ego centric behavior exhibited in this document. Some thing I actually totally agreed with, but for the most part this is a destruction of the drum corps activity. I can't believe that the organizers of this document have essentially constructed what amasses to a business plan, with absolutely no supporting evidence to prove that the results will work. They predict economic outcomes based on "assertions" and "truths" which, in essense, are contradictory in nature. If I were an investor in this business plan, I'd laugh them out of the office..... I will take a day or so to fully put my thoughts down, however, the greatest flaw to this plan is counting on bands, dance teams, and guards to completely support this activity. The G7 working document pretty much admits that it is not interested in individual corps doing what is necessary to provide their own organizations with fiscal health (cut YOUR staff budgets and travel expenses rather than slashing nearly all of what DCI has an TAKING their money!). This is tantamount to a coup and raid. It has all the earmarks of DCI basically coming to an end......and for what? The most alarming facet of this document, is the lack of why audiences are dwindling (couldn't possibly be because the shows have become unentertaining and non fan friendly could it?). They have made the fatal assumption that its everybody else and that none of them could possibly need to improve anything. This sounds eerily similar to what Major League Baseball has struggled with for several decades now.....salaries and expenses are so high they can no longer sustain it. Higher ticket prices and poorer products are keep fans away in droves....so what is their solution: revenue sharing by raping the DCI coffers and screwing the less competitve units. MLB has done this and it fixed nothing. As a band director, the product G7 is pushing is also condescending, educationally questionable at best (it sounds more like autograph sessions at a rock concert), panders to the lowest common denominator. I'll expand on all of this later, however, I will get my initial feelings out there.....this does not look good. DW PS See also my manifesto in the DCI world class discussions, you'll find that most agree with me.

Two quick things as the OD on this topic.....1) I'm glad it has spurred such lively debate...that's always good if change is ever going to occur and I respect everyone's POV. 2) I think I'm finished with my side of the argument and recieved enough info in response to satisfy me. It has been OVERWHELMINGLY in support of my POV, so I'm glad to hear that I am not the only one. For those that mentioned that DCP is a "running joke" among members and staff of current drum corps...I'll give you a few straight up stats from messages sent to me via this topic: 3 current staff members from 3 separate top 12 corps messaged me to tell me I was "spot on", 5 current members from 3 current top 12 messaged me that they agrred with me, and 32 alumni representing more corps than I actually counted (just didn't want to has this one out) wrote in support of the manifesto. I would appear that DCP, or perhaps just this topic, isn't such a "running joke". DW

Fair enough. DW

You should know better than this...these are returns for a nonprofit which means that revenue and expenses should end up fairly close. Revenue is up, as it should be. DCI has done things (most significantly through their website and new technology) to tap into new revenue streams. I will submit that looking at these numbers (revenue is UP 1.5 million from '03 ot '08), I would expect it to be more. The thing that the activity may be forgetting is that word of mouth advertising is the best form of advertising! Produce a better product, spend less money on shoving down your consumer's throat, use the money to help support struggling corps! Sorry, its late and I'm getting absurd! DW

Actually I like it a lot, but there's more they can do with it...I want to see them really kick the ending. They are leaving out some of the best parts of that piece and it could work incredibly at the end of that show! They almost have it.... DW

Apologist, supporter, whatever you want to be called....Bill, Tom, whatever...I'm sorry if its coming off as condescending, but I suppose its frustrating when no one wants to acknowledge that the drum corps experience is no longer geared towards the fan or their consumer. DW

Yes yes yes.

Really? Because I've mentioned that I've observed this at many shows across the country for many years now. The Dublin show Wednesday night just happened to be the worst I've seen it. I've been seeing and hearing these same things for about 5 years now. What the heck are you talking about in that second paragraph? LMAO....I marched in the 90s and if you think there wasn't a difference between the 60s, 70s, and 80s then you haven't got a clue! There have been differences in every decade of drum corps and each has evolved into wonderful additions to the genre. Resistence at first (I played in the first horn line to use 3 valve bugles in '90) was always there, however after seeing how the activity evolved, it was quickly accepted. What I keep saying is that the fans have NOT accepted this current incarnation of the activity. Its going on a decade and the shows have gotten further and further from being accepted. I don't see a more passionate and growing fan base.....again, this is a consumerism issue. DW

You should read the rest of the thread....again, this has nothing to do with the activity passing anyone by. The fact is, the shows don't reach the fan anymore. I'm not sure how much more I can say this. When the activity (or company) decides that it no longer needs to gain market share (fans), it is doomed....probably not now, probably not in 5 years, but ignoring your consumer will get the activity nowhere. DW

I've been there....keep in mind my background (board member, touring staff member, etc). I know what the members and staffers think. This isn't about them though (I seem to keep saying that for all you DCI apologists). This is a consumerism issue. DCI is not producing a quality product that the consumer wants anymore. This is how businesses fail. When a business feels it has no need to expand its customer base, failure begins. I don't think anyone on here cares what members and staff think about DCP when discussing the microeconomic impact of opportunity costs permeating an oligopoly.

I guess this is actually what I've been looking for from stalwart DCI apologists....an admission that you're attending a "concert" rather than a drum corps competition. An admission that we are no longer witnessing drum corps as an idiom but a concert. I have NEVER thought of a drum corps show as a concert nor would I ever! Its absurd! Why? Because if I want to hear Asphalt Cocktail in "concert" I'll go watch the Michigan State University wind symphony perform it with Kevin Sedatole conducting! If I want to hear Farandole performed, I'll pick the next time the Cincinnati Symphony is performing it and check it out. Lance mentioned that some of my comments were "sad" earlier. How sad is it that now drum corps has become a passive activity for the audience? I've been moved in concerts before. When MSU premiered "Asphalt Cocktail" last spring, I lept to my feet and took part in a 5 minute standing ovation. Its was incredible....I will openly admit that isn't the norm, just a great rare performance full of emotion. I see so little of that being communicated to the audience from the corps? Why? Poor design philosophy. DW