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drumcat

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drumcat last won the day on January 11 2014

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  1. I figured reducing scores to zero with a disqualification would be teeth? I've said in multiple posts the only penalty is a Dairy Queen. Death penalty. If you catch someone, no option. Gone. Don't know how you've missed that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  2. As I said… you need to eliminate moving mics by rule. You poo-poo'd that. Then if you can't move mics, a kid might have a pack but there has to be a mic taped in the instrument. That would be spotted. There's no need to search the kid, and you should really stop suggesting that's even up for discussion. If you've made that illegal, and you've told everyone it's illegal, you might have a compliance issue later. OK… that's better than today! What's proposed doesn't have zero-teeth. As I said, if you make the rule change, it's a lot less likely to occur. If it does occur, specifically if someone gets a photo or video of a microphone on a marching instrument, you can DQ the group. If all that happens is everyone keeps doing all the whinging and moaning about how nothing will ever work, that is also correct. Maybe you'll change your mind and find that trying something is better than not trying.
  3. Hi Jeff, You cannot ask any judge to make a cheating call from the box. We both know that. The ensemble cheating can only be tackled by not allowing field instruments to be individually mic'd. End of story. If that's a non-starter, I can always make a senior louder and a freshman not. Marching band has to decide if they want to allow the well-funded bands the chance to cheat, or if they prohibit the obvious temptation. The purpose of shoving a little mic in everyone's bell is literally to have that option. The ethical question is whether you do it equally or not, and no one can tell. Thus, reinforcement of field instruments individually is always effectively cheating. No, you don't strip search kids, and dude… you should avoid saying that out loud. All that needs to happen are some PSAs in the building. Tell the kids: BOA Prohibits Individual Field Marching instruments with wireless microphones Xerox that 50 times, tape it up around the buildings. Then every kid knows that if they're wearing a battery pack, they're cheating. Usage is event DQ; no exception. Zero directors would risk it, as it would mean they'd get fired. As for the sampling stuff, it is difficult. But you knew the WGI rule. One action, one sound, volume range via performer. Have the director of every entering band sign a paper saying that they are in compliance with the rule and concept, and if they violate it they will face disqualification. If you drop the wirelessly mic'd field instruments, the "cheating" aspects will disappear. If you program a chord onto one note, you're not going to get caught. But if the kids know the rules, it's always unlikely the adults will have them cheat. Finally, let's consider where we're at. BOA has found that this is so common or so obnoxious, they've called it out publicly. It violates the spirit of what they're doing. The point is that you don't have to always catch people to be effective. Sometimes, you just have to remove the temptation.
  4. I thought I should add an addendum to all that I've written on this subject, as this is a drum corps forum... I have never considered that DCI has ever been in a situation where they were trying to get field instrumentation to cheat in the way BOA is suggesting is happening at the high school level. Even the one time I did point out where BD used an effect, I have no way of knowing whether that was ok'd by some higher-ups, or whatever the case was. I do not think that they would have risked a penalty, so it's not something I have *ever* believed was in the competitive DNA of DCI. If I were advising the rules at DCI, I'd still remove microphone movement, automation of reinforcement, and tweak the sampling rules to ensure legal compliance, etc., but those are things I believe would make the general product better -- and not because of any foul play. In the prior posts, I wanted to show how these and other changes could protect the integrity of competition for BOA. Cheers.
  5. First, shout to Fred and 1whoknows, and for anyone who read that thing. Sorry it was not proofread, so it may have been rough. To answer your question Jeff, it's critical to point out what you're enforcing. I didn't want to get heavily into the rules because the permutations can get a bit ugly. Thus, let's keep them a bit generic: The main cheat: hiding What BOA is calling out is that musicians on the field are being "hidden" by the playing of others, mimicking a better result to the box. I'm sure this handcuffs judges bound to the press box. It's why DCI has had field-level judging for so long -- you can't get away with it. That said, the way you can eliminate this cheating *easily* is by eliminating all wireless microphones. You can be a bit more specific, but you can begin to impinge on creativity. If I recall, the pit box is 15ft for BOA. So you can set a rule that says all reinforcement must be done within the Pit Box or the 15ft on the field. Or you can enforce it by saying that all members that are not in the Pit may not wear any electronics or have anything other than an analog instrument on the field. To me, the subtleties are too much. Despite the problems with some creativity, I'd draw that line and be wired-only. It also tends to be higher quality, no latency, and little chance of frequency interference. Most of those issues are negligible anymore, but you can't march with a wired mic. That problem gets solved. Other cheats: Frequency or digital signal processing This one's a bit more difficult. As you'll recall it's a rarity - it happened with BD, and they weren't called out for it, but I cannot think of any time where this has been an issue and a broken rule. In DCI, it would be permitted now from what I understand. If you were working to prevent this sort of thing, you can't outside of saying "don't". "Reinforcement of any instrument or voice is not allowed to alter the analog playing properties upon its amplification. An exception is allowed for equalisation in order to preserve the effectiveness of reinforcing the original sound." If this is done in conjunction with the mics-in-box and wired-only mics, the only consideration you might see pushed is base or chipmunk stuff just as BD did with human voice. I wouldn't expect a repeat of that. The tricky part - bass guitars We can't go without calling out Thundergoo. While this is obviously a LONG-running discussion, thunder goo doesn't exactly fall under what I'd call "cheating". 50 clarinets and 1 bass guitar, and you ask "how loud should it be?" That is essentially "how long is a piece of string?" It really would need to be a judged decision. Thunder goo is not 51 clarinets with one loud and 50 quiet; they are different instruments. The fact that an electric guitar (or synth, or sample) gets played isn't necessarily right or wrong. If an ensemble is making up for a lack of low brass, is it within their purview to do this? In BOA, I'd be really careful because of the nature of high schools, etc. In DCI WC, you have the brass, so it becomes a creative decision. If the sampling rules apply from the other post, I would not allow sampling of instruments that are already being fielded. "All digitally sampled instruments to be used must not be the same or a similar nature to those on the field, nor those traditionally found on a marching band field. For example, a tuba sampler should never be used." If implemented, it's up to a judge to define whether an electric guitar (that is amplified) is balanced between the ensemble. Also, going back to the traditional technique note on the sampler, you would be prohibited from using, let's say a double-bass sampler with a piano-layout keyboard. Thus, you're more pushed towards the traditional electric bass being played by a student. "Digitally sampled instruments should be implemented by a student using an appropriate technique. Thus a percussive sample should be played with a velocity-sensitive pad, a piano sample via a velocity-sensitive keyboard, and so forth. When a digitally sampled instrument is provided for a student, the virtuosity of the student should be maintained through a similar triggering technique." Then you might say "keytar". If it's a keytar, or a Theramin, or whatever the instrument actually is, play it as it is, physically. The *sample* should be appropriate. What's appropriate for something like a keytar? It's still intended to be an electric guitar sound. The student could play a keytar with that sample set using a velocity-sensitive hardware unit, plugged in to the appropriate amplifier, and judged on its ensemble balance. But to wrap this, cheating as it's being called out is on the *field*. Eliminating the ability to overbalance through wireless microphones attached to better students is easily stopped by disallowing reinforcement of any traditionally-marched instruments through wireless means.
  6. Hello… it's been a while. First thing's first - let's applaud BOA for doing what it needs to do. If you read their statement, they're basically saying "you're cheating, and we see you". Good on them. However, what we should do is dig into the subtlety of what's going on, and how for the marching arts we can move this forward. IMO, they've laid down a challenge, but have forgotten the Piano Principle. I'll get to that, but I'm going to write this stuff out and *anyone* feel free to use it. I've been arguing this position for about 18 years, so it's not a difficult one to regurgitate, but there are some subtleties that might not be evident at first read. REINFORCEMENT This concept is where an analog sound is made louder to achieve a different balance. Initially brought (en masse) for pit instruments, this allows your 4 marimbas to be trimmed down to 2, and still be the same in the ensemble texture. Why is this good? Logistics for dropping 2 marimbas might be an annual budget savings that's material, and the wear of hard mallets protects the longevity of the instrument. When the Blue Devils did this the first time, they had one small amp per keyboard, and it was excellent. Now it's all evolved to scenes and two large stacks of amps. It's debatable that this is ideal for a number of reasons -- particularly because when techs talk about scenes, they're actively changing the volumes of microphones. The original intent of instrumental reinforcement was to raise the overall amplitude of specific quiet percussive instruments. Altering the volume takes away some player responsibility. Adding effects is altering the original signature of the instrument, and should be avoided. More on that... Amplified voice has been a lightning rod since The Zone and The Cadets. In addition, it should be noted that the Blue Devils were also shown to have altered a voice amplification by taking "that laugh" down an octave but were not penalised -- and they won the title that year. Effects should 100% be off-limits, with some very light exceptions for equalisation that's set-and-forget, particularly with keyboards. Any digital signal processing that is intended to alter the timbre should be off limits. In this statement by BOA, they are effectively saying that the bands are cheating, and they're right. In olden times, we'd call someone marching a spot but not really playing a "plug". It happened for several reasons, usually injury or someone quitting. What BOA is describing here is effectively mic every instrument, and play the ones that are better. This means that a band can easily and effectively have lots of plugs all over the field and still give a more full sound. It's my opinion that if all reinforcement was limited to the Pit Box, this would not be a problem. You can also give the 12-15 feet behind the Pit Box a pass so you can set up a STATIONARY mic for soloists. Drum corps and brass solos basically don't need this (though some might debate), it's definitely more reasonable for a clarinet solo as an example. If you don't allow wireless mics, or more specifically microphones cannot be moved/carried during a show, it eliminates this cheating. SAMPLED vs PRE-RECORDED vs SEQUENCED If you've made it this far, you're into it. Simply waving these three words together is a blunt exercise. Let's define them: Sampled instrument - A set of recorded notes of an instrument that are intended to be played back to recreate a real instrument, often invoked through computer software and triggered by both analog and digital methods. Pre-recorded - A playing of multiple notes, sounds, or a combination to emulate an instrument playing a passage with the musicianship as part of what is recorded. The playback of a passage. Sequenced - The playing of a synthesiser or sampler with the automatic triggering of a digital ordering. It is the modern equivalent of a player-piano sheet. Invoking a sequence allows the playback of any passage without the need of memory or musicianship. So this is where we come to the Piano Principle. If you want to have a piano sound, do you bring a piano? No; it's unreasonable. Should you bring a keyboard that can create these sounds? If you want a piano, it's the only reasonable thing to do. Should you allow a piano sound with a marching ensemble? That's a creative rule decision. But what about a tympani, as was brought up? Maybe there should be some consideration to not having to bring tubs if you're only going to use it as an effect for a few seconds, etc. There is a correct method to interpret this, and a basic flow of questions would help put marching organisations back on the right path. Is the instrument analog? If yes, is it allowed? For example, many associations don't allow double-reed instruments to be marched for safety. Assuming it's conventional, you allow it on the field. Is your instrument in need of amplification/reinforcement? If it's a marched instrument, then it should only be allowed to have reinforcement by a solo-ing mic stand that is stationary. If it's a keyboard instrument, it should be reinforced, but the volumes should be maintained by the player, or should be set by a technician and left for the entirety of the show. No scenes. Technicians should only be given the option to turn a system off in case of malfunction. If the instrument is a sample, there are some guidelines that should make it fairly simple to maintain musicianship. Notes should be played by the student. Volume should be played by the student. The motion of triggering a sound is done by the student, and triggering must be restricted to a physical implementation. For example, a pedal can be used to imitate a piano pedal. Pressing any button/key should cause a representative note/volume, and one press should be one sound. A sampled instrument should also be fully licensed and allowed for the use of playback without copyright concerns. From this, an artistic question should be answered by the governing body - specifically where the sampling of instruments should be for a similar kind of trigger, and the instrument should not be equal to any other. You should not have a piano-style keyboard playing flute sounds when you have flutes on the field. You should not have a piano-style keyboard playing violin sounds. The implement should match, thus if someone was playing a tympani sample, it should be played in the manner a tympani would be played, and that's with a drum trigger. Sampled instruments vs Sampling Thus far, we've discussed sampled instruments, intending to be played back to represent its analog. Sampling can also be unrealistic. For example, sampling a car horn for an effect. The sound can be modulated, but it's not a traditional instrument. Ensembles should be encouraged to use the real thing when possible, and judged better when they do. Sometimes that's not realistic, so in the case where a sampled effect is used, **it should not be modulated**. This also applies for sampled instruments. If you sample a car horn that honks in F, it should not be used in other pitches, nor modulated or effected or signal-processed as part of a performance. Any non-analog instrument should not have effects used as part of the performance. As part of this requirement, any sampled/digital sound needs to be triggered by a student, in real time, in the Pit Box, and should not be altered or adjusted by a technician. Conclusion, for now The overriding principle behind all of these considerations is universal; the virtuosity of the student shall not be altered, hidden, or improved by the use of technology. There are some logistical and artistic wins to be had, but the Huygens-Frenzel Principle is undefeated, and there's no room for cheating. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huygens–Fresnel_principle) Electronic sounds, even sampled analog sounds, need to work within the ensemble, and you cannot hide kids or over-present your best. The ensemble sound is what makes marching so amazing in person, and to effectively cheat and remove what is the soul of marching is something that I'm glad is finally having a stand made. Think back to SCV doing Miss Saigon, and all the Foley work. That is the soul of marching arts. A quote that has always stuck with me is that "art is in the resistance of the materials". It's true; marching music isn't supposed to be push-button music box cranks. Moving forward intelligently can leave the soul of the art in a very good place, while providing artistic help and remove logistical nightmares. I listened to this evolution over my years with DCI in the capacity of audio recording, and it's never been different at any level. Leave the musicianship to all the kids. That's why we love this activity.
  7. Well, I thought this was going to get 3 replies and die, so nice to come back and see all of this. Flattered, honestly. OCG, you've brought it home. I wanted to answer a few things here from a distance, and I'd remind everyone that instantly hated my post because they recognised a song that there are no absolutes in what I was saying. So a few points: - I said I didn't care for samples, but I'm not bagging what or how kids are playing. It is my strong preference that sampling is not appropriate, and that "artificial bass" of any kind be avoided, but never am I bagging on a kid, their skill, or dedication. Don't mistake that. I also understand instrumentation has changed a lot over the years. Again, while it's jarring for me to hear a bass guitar and makes me instantly thing marching band, it's also an evolution. At least that's just reinforcement, and not sampling. - As has been mentioned a few times, yes there are some songs. This post makes a better point of it. Few (not none) are something the average person would pick up on first read. The point isn't whether that is inherently good or evil or whatnot, it is an indication of 'popularity'. The activity might be healthy now, and I hope it is, but it will not get bigger given the comment above. Again, that's ok if you want it to be what it is, as popular as it is, and as attended as it is. Many activities would love to have such high attendance and engagement, but from an outside view, it is less approachable than it has been. If people stick around longer, and keep buying tickets, that's also a winning formula. - A huge Thank You to those that recognised me. I can't say how nice it is to post something (I think) 7 years from the last time, and get a warm welcome. Truly appreciated. I know my opinion might not strike everyone the right way, and hey, what's forums for if everyone agrees, right? - Finally, the irony of the night was I was actually considering buying the stream… "not available in my area". Apparently it's geo-locked. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Thank you to everyone, including those that disagree. I think above all, once you can't march anymore, you quickly find out that the kids that are there, doing what you did and having those experiences… that's what you carry with you. OC, WC, whatever. We all did it. We all want kids to keep having those summers because they make us handle this insane world better than anything else. Whakamihi to us all, -drumcat
  8. Running the dinosaur risk So I honestly didn't think I'd ever come back here and write this. I've had some unique experiences in being fully away from drum corps for a full decade, and when I was reminded it was approaching the 50th, I nosed myself back into it a little. What I've found is something I felt I should share, even if there's a risk of sounding a bit like a dinosaur. I've been out of the US for 7 years now. I've been out of DCI since the 40th in 2012. I first marched in 1992 for the 20th, aged out half-of-DCI ago in 1997, and was involved with touring from 2000 for a few years. I was actually hired into work for DCI full time for the 35th, and volunteered for almost a decade. For a while, it was my life. It was the music for me; I was never a visual person. Just audio & music. Still true today, really, and I married a guard girl. Go figure. Anyhow, the point of this post is that I thought I'd share my perspective in how and why music has changed so much over the 50 years of drum corps. Spoiler: it's the judging. However, it might not be what it seems at first glance. Drum Corps the league has always held tight to the "do what the winner did" attitude. But that's not exactly what corps at the top have done -- they're far more advanced than simply following the leader. Maybe that happened some in the 20th century, but not so much after. So what is it then? There are a few things that have conspired to change music in DCI. But what is that change? It's my opinion that drum corps shows have moved from themed music to musical themes. Songs to stings. Shows to cinematic effects. I know I'm not alone in this opinion, but it is where it's moved. To me, DCI shows are the marching equivalent to listening to a movie soundtrack. Whether you consider that good, bad, or indifferent, it's fact. So what has happened in order to make these changes? In no particular order: Music licensing Two-score judging sheets Sampling Let's start with music licensing. It's hard. It's complex. DCI has a lot to deal with in the area, and probably always will now. Unless there's a solid legal carve-out for marching arts (which I think is actually achievable) the reality is that you must secure rights and licensing for more than just mechanicals. You can't just pick songs you want to play, and call them a show... or at least not as easily as you once could. Then there's sampling. This rule has always been the rule that broke the soul of drum corps in my opinion. Rawr. 🦖 I've never had a problem with reinforcing instruments that need amplifying, but press-a-button sounds was always one too far for me. I prefer my music made by the performers. And if you've read this far, this is the good part. You might be saying to yourself that you don't find a problem with the music being played by corps. Maybe 15 years ago I might have agreed with you; I was very "in" the activity, and I didn't see a problem. And maybe there is no problem. Cinematic/effects music might be what you want, and think that's the future of the activity. For you, you're in a good spot. However as I came back to see where drum corps is today, my old dino rawr is that there are no "songs". No easily identifiable theming, though I know theming is explained to judges. I'm talking first-read. Ticket buyer reads. And if you think it would be nice to hear 4-5 songs, and maybe even something you've heard before, it will not happen under the judging scheme. I'll let others fill in details about how the left-right works, but in short the right side "execution" score is always a tiny adjustment of the left score. That's what gets you to effect. 19 out of 20 points end up in the left side of the sheet if the right side is based on the left. But even if the judging can't be split with some humans judging effect and others just execution on the night, it's the sheets that ask the wrong questions (in my opinion). Instead of being "effective", the question should be whether the corps conveyed a musical or visual concept of the original work through the idiom. Let's break that down. Instead of "was the music effective", ask "was the musical idea conveyed". This gives credit to original intent, whatever that intent is. If you play songs that convey the idea of the song, you get credit. This differs from now where the original intent seems to require some manipulation in order to get credit. There are many smart people in the activity that can chew over this idea for years, but the reality is that the activity simply isn't as approachable as it once was. This is in spite of the performers and staffs being the best they ever have been. A niche activity indeed. This is no problem at all if everyone is happy with the way things are, but if there is a desire to move the bar to a wider audience, the way it happens is by changing what gets rewarded. Personally, I'd like to come back in a few years and see drum corps playing charts that are identifiable to the average human. It worked well in the 20th century. And if you're not sure, imagine for just a moment some of those shows in the late 70's through the 90's but played by corps today. That's not a dinosaur rawr. That's simply good content needing a modern touch, and the accompanying acceptance from the judging community to let it exist. Happy 50th, and maybe I'll stop by in 2032. Cheers.
  9. I want you to imagine a scenario... I'm a marketing guru for a feature film that will hit cinemas in July, and I have a 9 month window to start the marketing process. In my genius mind, I think that I can get great value for money if I have a drum corps play my movie's music, along with helping out at nationwide promos. The day after every regional, I do a small local event, etc. I get the movie music played, I get endless promotion through repetition and show design, and I can even budget a little for killer props, and some signage for the corps. Essentially, a corps "sells its soul" for a summer for a payday of mass advertising. Now, stop acting like this is impossible. It's far from impossible. In fact, let's say that it were going to happen next season. Someone is negotiating right now for a "dramatic WW2 movie" or an "action comedy". It's going to happen. And it's going to happen with a World Finalist corps that won't win, but will figure to, on a good season, crack the medals. How much do you charge the studio?
  10. It all brings me back the rule I'd love to see... can't play it if you didn't get full rights to it. Rescinded rights aside, I don't know how this is bad for the industry.
  11. But you know, let's pass a rule allowing sampling. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  12. I should also make perfectly clear that my dislike for the Stanford Band isn't because of them directly. It really has to do with the negative light they shine on the activity. Since "The Game" in 1982, Stanford's band has been unfortunately made forever a character in the college football landscape. Had it happened recently, I'm sure the trombone that got smashed would have had a GoFundMe page, and all the other stuff that goes with it. Unfortunately, the media has paid attention to the Band since that game. Journalists love to show off their long memories, and any chance they get, they write about that band. As such, it is a hope that their clean up would do well for the region's programs, and college bands in general. The 99% deserve a better lens to be seen through. That's all.
  13. I think you're looking for sourcing that discusses a rumor (and I did qualify it as such) and you're completely missing the point. The "urban legend" of the plane tilt stunt doesn't matter. Is it feasible that a few kids jumped up on a charter plane for the band, and caused an annoyance which became urban legend? Sure. Is it the truth? Maybe, but it's not relevant. Here's the LA Times all the way back in 1990: http://articles.latimes.com/1990-11-07/news/vw-3779_1_spotted-owl-show So let's say that the "airline ban" is really some travel agent's refusal to charter, or some other nonsense that was, again - by all admission - spun into an urban legend. I don't have the sourcing you're looking for. The entire point, again, with no inside knowledge, is that the IMAGE that the band has, and wants, is the problem. And if you're not sure they want this image, I would direct you to their front page - http://lsjumb.stanford.edu - which proudly proclaims that they have "sexions" [sic]. Your part about dadaism, I honestly have no idea about. What is apparent though, immediately, is that they WANT the reputation, EARN the reputation, and again, if the band could be easily shut down by the school, I think they would have by now. It isn't lost on me that the team with the most DCI titles has its "home show" at a stadium where the band could not be any more galacticly opposite. One last thing, Brasso. I expect Chicago Manual of Style 16th Edition citations on all your posts from now on.
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