Cavaliers Technique Question

[rmurrey74]

The only way I can see you not getting the answers you want from the source like the staff or the director is if you're really not interested in knowing what it's all about to begin with.

I'll contact the current staff. Just in my experience, close friends of mine who have taught on the staff in past could not define it for me. That makes me think that maybe it's not as defined as I thought it would be so I'm not going to get specific answers.

[Marlin Hunter]

the problem with asking former members is they dont' sit down with a book and learn the technique so that they can go back and explain it to other people or necessarily teach it.

It's taught so that it makes sense to that individual (just like every technique).

Correct!

The only way I can see you not getting the answers you want from the source like the staff or the director is if you're really not interested in knowing what it's all about to begin with.

even more correct!

if you ask the staff in the same manner you asked the board, you probably won't get an answer. but if you're nice about it, i'm sure someone will be happy to help you out. hope you get an "A" on the book report!

p.s. it's not 'bicycle' steps.

[rmurrey74]

the problem with asking former members is they dont' sit down with a book and learn the technique so that they can go back and explain it to other people or necessarily teach it.

It's taught so that it makes sense to that individual (just like every technique).

The specific nature of your questions will best be answered by staff or by attending a rehearsal where they work on basics (usually in the off season.. December, January, Feb/March...they usually start working on the actual drill in April once they get out to NIU).

I recommended you contact Jeff Fiedler because, while he's also the director, while he was on staff with the corps, he was on the visual staff. As someone else recommended, if you ask your questions to the right people with respect, you'll get the answers (or at least initiate a conversation that will result in answers for you) you seek.

I don't know why you would believe that you won't get answers from the staff.. they're the nicest bunch of guys I've ever met.. and always happy to answer the specific questions I've had about things over the years.. you just have to ask.

Stef

Sorry...but no. You should be able to explain a technique that you've performed all season. Maybe some people would not be able to teach it well but you should be able to explain a technique that you've been taught if the staff is giving you the information.

A good staff should be teaching each member as if they would a future teacher.

Even if someone doesn't make the corps, they should have received general information on how the technique is defined after attending one camp. Each person is taught the technique individually? Each person may be approached differently to get them to fully understand, but you have to start out with the general details in a group setting. This is where the foot is on the & of 4, this is where the foot is on 1, this is where your weight is on 1, this is where you foot is on 1e....etc.

The "Blue Devils" style of technique can be broken down until specific details. I'm not trying to bag on the Cavaliers technique or be negative about it. I'm truly curious to see if this technique can really be defined.

I'll email them directly after the season.

[rmurrey74]

Correct!

even more correct!

if you ask the staff in the same manner you asked the board, you probably won't get an answer. but if you're nice about it, i'm sure someone will be happy to help you out. hope you get an "A" on the book report!

p.s. it's not 'bicycle' steps.

If it's not a bicycle step than what is it?

[rut-roh]

If it's not a bicycle step than what is it?

You have "good friends" who have taught the Cavaliers and you still refer to it as a bicycle step?? Cuz I know they don't. At least the people I know who have taught there don't.

Edited July 10, 2007 by rut-roh

[rmurrey74]

You have "good friends" who have taught the Cavaliers and you still refer to it as a bicycle step?? Cuz I know they don't. At least the people I know who have taught there don't.

Yes, because no one can explain why it's not a bicycle step. They don't, but what should I call it then and why isn't it a bicycle step?

[karl E. Hungus]

Search for Sad attempt at humor.

Though there will be many results, that one should definitely be near the top.

i still cant find it, is this a joke or is there seriously a video? im interested now.

How much knee? How is the knee defined?

All answers about this technique are always vague and that's why it looks different from person to person on the field.

ok here, for the sake of an explanation. ill do my best for you. but the reason you probably dont usually get straight answers is because the vis staff likes to make minor changes every year. therefore what someone told us the corps in 2000 maybe described completely differently in 2007. so what i say may not be current or correct but its what i can remember. so i would still recommend emailing jeff or some of the vis instructors if your really that interested.

ps. anything i say in the coming paragraphs is just paraphrasing because the technique is HEAVILY defined, as much as it may not seem like it, theres a few vis guys that i guarantee could write you a hefty reference book on it(and not even get to dots). should any of those vis guys read this... im just going by memory here, feel free to send me hate mail if i make a mistake. also its quite hard to explain without actually standing in front of you. (again.... paraphrasing)

to answer your above question. the knee is not defined. the knee is not defined because humans have legs of varying length therefore trying to define foot position by position of the knee would be a waste of time. the technique is defined from the heel. simple forward movement can be broken up into different steps in order to learn the overall idea.

-from a halt, movement is initiated 1/2 beat before one by peeling up the left heel as high as possible. (when i marched toes stayed on the ground, this could have changed) this is the same for all directions of movement.

-at beat 1, the foot moves in its intended direction and the toes move up into a roll in order to land on the back edge of the heel again. i say again, the techique is defined from the heel, so the heel stays as close as possible to the ground while still holding the foot in the heel-upright position. thats placement of the first step. it gets more fun from here on

-from beat 1 forward the left foot rolls forward and down as the back (right foot) begins to peel up heel first in the same fashion as before.

-at the "and"(+) of beat 1 the right foot breaks forward with heel peeled up and the left foot is rolled completely down. the right foot should line up with the left shin at 1(+), and be pointed toe down, again with the heel as close to the ground as possible while maintaining upright position.

-at beat 2 the right foot lands toes up on the back of the heel and rolls down as the left foor begins to peel up again, and the whole process continues in a circular progression.

the idea is to learn to do the above steps in one fluid motion with no jerks or speed changes. when this is achieved, weight and therefore the upperbody can be transfered from step to step with no varying movement at all. in other words, weight is centered over your feet at at halt, spread between your two fee as you roll and peel, centered over your one foot at the (+) count, spread between your two feet at the next roll and peel... and so on.

thats just forward. backwards is strikingly similar in that you do all the same except you land on your toes and roll down while you peel up with the other foot. i was not a horn player so i cant tell you about slides ord jazz runs. but i know they have their own set of directions.

also for percussion. when crabbing, or moving in any oblique direction, there is a pretty much a changeup of the technique for each of these 4 directions, forward-left, forward-right, back-left or right, and crabbing... and that gets modified often so i wont go into that either.

hope that helped a little, your best bet when asking a cav about marching technique is to ask specific questions about specific aspects and see what answers you get. because its kind of like asking someone to acurately describe the language of japanese just in a few sentances. and for other cavs, if i am innacurate in my above descriptions, please clarify...

[Slow Adam]

i still cant find it, is this a joke or is there seriously a video? im interested now.

Go to Youtube and do a search for "marching impressions"

[Tayhar]

i went to a few camps a couple of years ago, and the staff repeated over and over "it's not a bicyle step, it's a re-articulation of the foot."

on the "and" count the knee breaks the plane of motion by bending while keeping the toes on the grond and lifting the heel. on the "one" count the heel hits the ground and the toes are as high as possible. on the "one and" count the right foot should be perpendicular to the ground at the ankle of the left foot (with bent knee). and on "two" the right heel hits the ground.

the interesting part was the backwards technique, where the initiation is the same as forward, the left food breaks the place of motion by bending the knee and keeping the toes on the ground while lifting the heel. on "one" the foot is placed behind you. on "one and" the right foot does the same thing as going forward, perpendicular to the ground, at the left ankle, knee bent.

the staff said that if you took a picture on the "and" count, you shouldn't be able to tell if they are moving forward or backwards.

sorry to any cmm, or fmm if this is completly wrong, it's only what i remember from a few years ago, and only going to a few camps (then marching two years in another corps with a different technique).

[karl E. Hungus]

Yes, because no one can explain why it's not a bicycle step. They don't, but what should I call it then and why isn't it a bicycle step?

it is not a bicycle step because the intention is to move the heel in straight lines, while only raising it high enough to extent the foot. a bicycle step would imply that the entire lower leg from the knee down moves circularly from step to step, raising up, moving forward, placing down, and steping through. the rest of the leg is left for the most part undefined because the length of ones leg and foot bones are different from person to person... i say again, the technique is defined from the heel, and pointed direction of the toe. so if those two parts are consistant from person to person, it should be easy to see why if you look down a file frozen in time, the degree of bend in the knees may be bend at different some and may stick out farther than others.

keep asking questions, this is turning out to be a nice thread.

the staff said that if you took a picture on the "and" count, you shouldn't be able to tell if they are moving forward or backwards.

oh no, thats quite right. and i cant believe i forgot that, yes, the technique is all "rearticulation of the foot"

Edited July 10, 2007 by karl E. Hungus