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Academy...why the special treatment, DCI

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I'm puzzled then as to why a Corps would have subjected themselves to all of the DCI scrutiny if they had the option of returning to Div1 and participating in some ad/hoc fashion. Why would DCI even be capable of such oversight if it really is just a "loose" affiliation of member associations?

Don't know the answer to that. As you say, only the upper folks at Blue Stars know for sure.

Could be that the rules were changed since then.

Could be that the BS felt, for they're own reasons, that it was in their best interests to do a full tour. (competitive reasons, recruiting, show fees, reliance on souvie money, whatever)

Can't say. This gets back to an earlier post I made that, although DCI isn't REQUIRED to let us in on some of these rules and decisions, I wish they would volunteer a little more so that this idle speculation and mis-interpretations among us (paying) fans is reduced.

On your last point: DCI is an association of voting members (the corps). They can decide to have DCI act as "loosely" or as "tightly" as they want on oversight, event participation, financial limits or sharing, whatever. There is a balance between corps wanting to be independant and corps wanting to act inconcert enough to sustain the activity. After all, if you're only one corps, you can't survive long without some competition and a competitve playing field. So they strike that balance as best they can. We can argue about how we think they should do this or that differently, but as long as they follow THEIR OWN rules, they are meeting their burden of association.

Edited by Liam

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Flamed troll here...obviously, this is a topic of discussion. This is not a bashing session for a corps - in general or in particular. This is not a discussion about finances or survival.

My initial words, yes, were brash but sometimes it takes a little brashness to create something. I'm a firm believer of risk taking...to a point, and that is not the point of the discussion.

I, personally, have nothing negative to say about Academy. Yes, I said that they have sitting on their butts - yes, I said they had time off but that is not the issue, either.

I don't care who the corps is - my fav or least recognized...if a stipulation is posted for the public to view (DCI.org stating that appearance in San Antone is based upon placement in Atlanta) should it not be followed?

I was told once to only speak of a problem when you have a solution.

SOLUTION:

1) Adhere to the current rule/regulation

2) Omit the rule of appearance being based upon another show's placement and see a lot more be said about like-topics (?)

3) Either of the above and remove the verbage from DCI.org

My opinionated solution is 1).

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Interesting discussion

First off I don't believe DCI needs to have a hard and fast written rule about performance order. What has been quoted here is a policy decision made by the board and as a policy it can be changed, deleted or whatever by the board. Is it fair? maybe, maybe not. I would prefer a rando draw for position for all corps below the top 6 or so. Maybe then we would see more movement between positions than we have today.

The Star of Indiana example from 1985 of having to go on firest in every show is not a valid comparison. In 1985 there were more Div I corps and not all of them did full tours. As a new corps Star did go on first in all their shows.

I assume that Academy as a new division I corps has been on first in all the shows that they have participated in so far.

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I don't care who the corps is - my fav or least recognized...if a stipulation is posted for the public to view (DCI.org stating that appearance in San Antone is based upon placement in Atlanta) should it not be followed?

I was told once to only speak of a problem when you have a solution.

SOLUTION:

1) Adhere to the current rule/regulation

2) Omit the rule of appearance being based upon another show's placement and see a lot more be said about like-topics (?)

3) Either of the above and remove the verbage from DCI.org

My opinionated solution is 1).

Yeah, this I agree with. Personally, I don't care how DCI decides performance order. And I don't really care if they tell how they decided. But strictly from a PR standpoint, if they ARE going to tell us how they decided, it should as least be accurate (and complete). Would it be so hard to say "Performance order based on scores from July 14 contests" ????

A lot of confusion and mis-interpretaion could have been avoided .....

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DCI (meaning the member corps themselves) CAN require whatever they want for corps to qualify for their sanctioned event. They, themselves, can vote to require that all corps have to march from Denver to Pasadena or else they can't participate. They would never do that, because it's a silly idea (and suicide!!!) but the point is they could. This is an important point because it leads us to the fact that they DO, in fact, have rules for participation -- rules they have "dictated" if you will. The Blue Devils meet those rules and so does Academy. So, therefore, we can only assume that since DCI (read: the member corps) have CHOSEN the set of criteria they are operating under, that they are okay with it.
See, you got me thinking in terms of professional sports. If the NFL schedules the Oakland Raider to play in New England, Phily and Balitmore in three consectutive weeks the Raiders are going to be there, no matter what. I don't believe that DCI can force the Cascades to be at a show in Miami on June 20th. I think generally a corps can opt out of a souther tour in favor of a norhern on and vice versa. Also, when Blue Devils decide to take off to Europe, I do not believe that DCI can do anything to prevent this. They end up doning fewer shows than their competators that year, but are there cries of "unfairness" then?

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The Star of Indiana example from 1985 of having to go on firest in every show is not a valid comparison. In 1985 there were more Div I corps and not all of them did full tours. As a new corps Star did go on first in all their shows.

Thanks for pointing that out about Star. Someone had briefly did a comparison either in this thread or another..which not a valid comparison at all.

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I don't believe that DCI can force the Cascades to be at a show in Miami on June 20th.
After experiencing Miami, I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to go. B)

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See, you got me thinking in terms of professional sports. If the NFL schedules the Oakland Raider to play in New England, Phily and Balitmore in three consectutive weeks the Raiders are going to be there, no matter what. I don't believe that DCI can force the Cascades to be at a show in Miami on June 20th. I think generally a corps can opt out of a souther tour in favor of a norhern on and vice versa. Also, when Blue Devils decide to take off to Europe, I do not believe that DCI can do anything to prevent this. They end up doning fewer shows than their competators that year, but are there cries of "unfairness" then?

You're confusing DON'T with CAN'T. DCI DOESN'T require the Cascades to be here or there and they DON'T prevent BD from going to Europe because their rules/bylaws etc AS WRITTEN don't allow them to. But DCI (again, the member corps themselves) COULD give DCI (the organization) the power to dictate those things and more. They CHOOSE not to because they want the independence do do the things you posit. Football teams CHOOSE to join a league that has a different set of oversight rules/regulations/scheduling/etc. If the Raiders want to do their own thing, they are welcome to leave the NFL and start their own circuit or go to Europe to find teams to play. Good luck finding opponents and any fans interested to see the resulting product, but the point is they COULD. It's obviously in their best interests to associate with the NFL, pesky rules and all.

Somewhat meaningless distinction to the topic at hand, I just want to make sure that folks don't think there's some legal/structural reason that DCI operates the way they do vis-a-vis the corps. It's all a matter of free association and choices within that association. That's all :)

Edited by Liam

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The Star of Indiana example from 1985 of having to go on firest in every show is not a valid comparison. In 1985 there were more Div I corps and not all of them did full tours. As a new corps Star did go on first in all their shows.
In 1985 there were 25 corps in Quarterfinals. They were the corps fielding from the prior year's 14 DCI Associate Membership and whatever number it took to make up 25 from the prior day's prelims. Star of Indiana, I believe, is the only corps ever to go through a four show cycle of competition in a single class at DCI.

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[edit]

Edited by skajerk

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