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Academy...why the special treatment, DCI


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If they didn't have enough money to go all the way to the east coast, they should have asked DCI for a loan, afterall, DCI gave the Cadets a loan so they could go all the way to the west coast.

Elmo Blatch

Sources? And the other east coast corps?

(I know this caught corps off guard as they only found out they were going to Pasadena a couple weeks ago.) :)

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I don't know the policy regarding seeding for performance orders, and so I didn't address that.

However, the DCI BOD set it up so that corps such as Academy can do a DCI regional tour. We've seen other corps do this before this year. So, to state, <<f a corps can't muster the funding to do a Div 1 tour, they shouldn't be Div 1>>, they ARE doing a DCI Division I tour, as allowed for by the DCI BOD. These are the same people who have corps that might be outscored by any corps doing a more limited regional tour. They made their decision based on what was best for the activity.

I've seen the BOD in action. They truly are stewards of the entire activity and not just their own corps.

Thanks, Michael. I'm sure that they are following the rules as regards the minimum touring allowed for Div 1. As a matter of fact, I'd be surprised if they weren't following ALL the regs. I'm certainly not implying that they are taking any unfair shortcuts as a corps. Just that they seem to have benefited by a decision that many don't agree with - no fault of theirs.

It seems that no one knows the actual policy for seeding. That's why I've tried to be careful about couching my opinions with the caveat that they may be incorrect as it relates to the actual policies.

I agree with you that the DCI BOD GENERALLY acts in the best interests of the activity and all corps. I would question some of their decisions as a body, but don't want to hijack an important thread.

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A: The directors of all the DCI Member Corps voted on this to allow younger/newer/less affluent/whatever corps to move into Division I without killing themselves.

B: Corps don't get paid unless they are at shows.

C: While it might be beneficial for some corps to not tour all season, they have to forsake getting judges' comments during the time they aren't touring, so they can't make changes to their show based on the latest judges' comments. This would seem to equalize any benefit attained from just practicing.

D: Bravo to Academy for deciding to do whatever it will take to keep them around for years to come.

E: If it was in the best interest for other corps to stay home awhile, not getting the advantages that come from performing in contests, then I imagine they would do whatever was in the best interest of their organization.)

F: Who knows what the future holds? The DCI BOD looks at everything every year. They've been doing this long enough to know what to consider. They not only care about their own corps, they care about the entire activity.

G: I'd love to see some more corps like Academy come along, doing whatever it takes to preserve their chances of growing and lasting.

This should be the last statement made and let's close this thread.

Thanks Mike! All Great Points!!

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Apparently, DCI's policy is to use scores from more than just Atlanta.

Key word is "apparently". If someone can show me where the rules governing this are, I'd like to read them. They would settle the argument one way or another.

Someone did post the specifics on at least two of the other Academy threads in this forum.

But what is a "Div 1 tour"?

The number of shows and scope of travel that Academy is doing this year (up to this point) is more akin to a typical Div 2 schedule

Yes, it is. And that puts them at a competitive disadvantage. If there was an advantage to be gained from doing a 12-show tour instead of 30 shows, the top corps would have gone that route years ago.

Well, we don't know that corps X deserves to perform ahead of corps Y just because they edged them out by 0.1 a week earlier, either. But that's what DCI decided was a reasonable way to get performance order somewhere close to placement order. Likewise, scores from different shows on the same day, while not exactly comparable, do seem to line up within a couple of points of each other in DCI's judging system.

How can you make the case that they compare, when they don't compete against each other.

Again, I said they're not exactly comparable. They do stay in the ballpark, though. Comparing July 14th scores on opposite coasts, Pacific Crest still ranked in the same position they were in a week earlier competing head-to-head in Allentown.

The different shows, different panels discussion HAS been beaten to death. Head-to-head competition is the only way to actually know how corps line up against each other......same panel, same night over a series of competitions.

Apparently, DCI disagrees. They have used scores from different panels to determine performance orders before, and they will again. Besides which, they are also comfortable with a bit of shuffling in the order, like the random draws in blocks of three they've been using.

Personally, I think all of the above are better than making a corps appear first with no regard to results over the first half of the season.

It's too bad that Academy's score in San Antonio should have an asterisk beside it. THATS whats not fair for them.

Why? Is their San Antonio score going to be any less valid to you because of when they perform?

If they went on between Revolution and Pioneer, as you suggest, how many asterisks should be put alongside that score?

Edited by audiodb
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Someone did post the specifics on at least two of the other Academy threads in this forum.

Yes, it is. And that puts them at a competitive disadvantage. If there was an advantage to be gained from doing a 12-show tour instead of 30 shows, the top corps would have gone that route years ago.

Again, I said they're not exactly comparable. They do stay in the ballpark, though. Comparing July 14th scores on opposite coasts, Pacific Crest still ranked in the same position they were in a week earlier competing head-to-head in Allentown.

Apparently, DCI disagrees. They have used scores from different panels to determine performance orders before, and they will again. Besides which, they are also comfortable with a bit of shuffling in the order, like the random draws in blocks of three they've been using.

Personally, I think all of the above are better than making a corps appear first with no regard to results over the first half of the season.

Why? Is their San Antonio score going to be any less valid to you because of when they perform?

If they went on between Revolution and Pioneer, as you suggest, how many asterisks should be put alongside that score?

I'll skip the parsing this time.

I would seriously appreciate having you link to the explanations that were posted to other threads - no sarcasm intended. I would really just like to see something other than personal opinion.

And, no I don't think that asterisks would be called for if they performed early, since I've yet to see the objectively stated policies guiding seeding at regionals. I don't disagree with random draws within closely grouped corps. It seems that this helps to move the judging a bit more from the strict "numbers management" aspect of their jobs.

If Academy went on early and beat the 9-12 corps - CASE CLOSED. If they went on early and only placed 13th, no harm no foul, since they have two weeks of regular performances to improve scores against corps ranked close to them.

Just my opinion....................................

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Just wondering - had the Cavaliers taken the trip to Europe, would you have been in favor of them appearing first in the Allentown performance order?

If that was their first show of the season ?? sure insert any corps name. I have no problem with what they are doing "tour" wise, I just think when you are new you step off first.

~G~

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Edited - Moderation issues are to be discussed via PM only. <----- GET OVER IT

/me callz his 1st amendment attourney

First Amendment attorneys are known for their sense of humour...yours may get quite a chuckle by your interpretation of the amendment. :)

(First Amendment rights only apply to government censorship. The don't apply to private companies or organizations)

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(First Amendment rights only apply to government censorship. The don't apply to private companies or organizations)

Or individual speech. So everyone get over the fact that someone may vehemently disagree with you.

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Why not? There's no rule preventing fans from traveling.

No there isn't, but fans aren't likely to travel as far for local shows as they would for a regional. However, your point is made for the west coast fans anyway, since the activity takes their resident corps east for most of the season to compete against the rest of the DCI world.

personally, knowing that despite my summer time proximity to the west coast, my school and work schedule required me to return to miami august 1st, i travelled to allentown to see shows this summer. (and academy wasn't even at that show... so it wasn't a honking action, lol. :P)

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