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At what point and time did we lose Drum Corps


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Am I the only one who cares if flutes aren't technically bugles anymore?

Sorry, but one man's "definition" of a bugle is different than another's. According to Webster's dictionary, a bugle has no valves. Was it still a bugle then when we added a valve? A rotor? Two valves? Three valves. Oh, well, it DOES have three valves, but it's in G so it's still a bugle. The original field trumpets (the original name for a bugle) were not in G. The Marine Drum and Bugle Corps, now revered for holding onto tradition by still using two-valve G bugles actually started with Bb bugles in 1934, so where does tradition begin?

Originally, I would have answered the OP's question by saying "around the turn of the century." Even my dad has stopped going to drum corps shows because of one he went to a few years ago and didn't like a thing. Mind you, you couldn't have dragged either of my parents away from a drum corps show since the first one they attended to see me in the Cavaliers in Michigan City, Indiana in 1990. Somewhere in there, corps started playing obscure music (not many people REALLY liked Star's choice of music in the 90s, either) and individual identities were lost.

I would have even argued about the lack of volume, not just in drum corps, but in high school and college bands lately. When did loud become a bad thing?

After going to the San Antonio show yesterday, though, my mind is completely changed. Did I get into every show? No, but everyone was FRIGGIN' AWESOME. A couple of corps weren't quite up to snuff with everyone else, but they were still good. Let's take '92. I can listen to SCV before I can't take anymore of the declining quality of the bottom of the Top 12. This year, however, I was amazed at the level of performance and excitement of all 22 corps. That's just unheard of. The volume was there, too. Colts came out and melted people's hairspray. SCV parted my hair. Cadets and BD parted it in two places. Even the Cavaliers, who I'd heard didn't play above mf, were plenty loud for my taste.

This all reminds me of a Marine joke:

November 10, 1775- a group of young men is lined up at Tun Tavern to enlist in this new thing called the Continental Marine Corps. The first guy signs his contract and goes outside. The second man signs his contract and also goes outside. The first man walks up to the second and says, "So let me tell you about the old corps."

Another:

Q: When did the "new corps" start and the "old corps" end?

A: The day you went to boot camp.

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That may well be true...being close by to BOA will inevitably lead to more cross-pollination across the board.

It can go either way...that we see DCI take this opportunity to step up and be a leader in the marching arts...with its own distinctive branding, truly "Major League". ...or it takes a swerve to fall in line, homogenize itself, and become nothing more than a summer version of BOA, replete with better executed show ideas that were thrown against the wall the previous year at Grand Nationals.

Going the second, vanilla, route in the next decade will hurt the activity creatively more than any rule change will.

The DCI offices and the BOA offices were within a 30 minute drive of each other in suburban Chicago for decades - until BOA moved to Indy a couple years ago. DCI now moving to Indy will not "inevitably lead" to anything like you are predicting (or fearing).

DCI will not become a summer version of BOA for a lot of reasons. One big reason to start - BOA is for high school marching bands. The top groups in DCI include large numbers of college age marchers. That would make many marchers (and entire corps?) ineligible to march.

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Few years ago Dan Achenson said DCA was people reliving their youth. Then he got a better idea what DCA is about and recanted his words. Suggest you do the same.

First time I learned about DCA was in the late 1980's... sitting in my living room as a kid (about 15 years old) with George Parks, who was staying at my house for a few days. He brought over some videos of the Bucs for me to watch (my living room was about 2,000 miles from PA... as a west coast kid, I had never even known senior corps existed until that moment).

Anyway, this isn't something I recently stumbled across.

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The DCI offices and the BOA offices were within a 30 minute drive of each other in suburban Chicago for decades - until BOA moved to Indy a couple years ago. DCI now moving to Indy will not "inevitably lead" to anything like you are predicting (or fearing).

DCI will not become a summer version of BOA for a lot of reasons. One big reason to start - BOA is for high school marching bands. The top groups in DCI include large numbers of college age marchers. That would make many marchers (and entire corps?) ineligible to march.

... except for the fact that they will be sharing the same office space, and this is essentially a precursor to a merger.

If DCI and BOA do not merge or become part of the same umbrella organization within the next 4 years, I will personally buy you one doughnut (sprinkles if you like) every single day for the rest of your life.

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First time I learned about DCA was in the late 1980's... sitting in my living room as a kid (about 15 years old) with George Parks, who was staying at my house for a few days. He brought over some videos of the Bucs for me to watch (my living room was about 2,000 miles from PA... as a west coast kid, I had never even known senior corps existed until that moment).

Anyway, this isn't something I recently stumbled across.

Re-read your earlier post and first thought you were saying DCA was people reliving their youth. Now sounds like you were just making a suggestion to Coop. Sorry for any misunderstanding...

Oh yeah, George who? j/k :P

Edited by JimF-3rdBari
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... except for the fact that they will be sharing the same office space, and this is essentially a precursor to a merger.

If DCI and BOA do not merge or become part of the same umbrella organization within the next 4 years, I will personally buy you one doughnut (sprinkles if you like) every single day for the rest of your life.

Furthermore... when Daniel and I agree on something, well, it's usually very cold in a very hot place. :P

Seriously, though, BOBSMYTH...I wasn't saying literally saying that it's going to be "BOA Summer" per se complete with the requisite age restricitions...just that the crossover from one to another in so many aspects already (staff, design scheme) will be magnified, I feel.

The music education shift with the key change since Dan Acheson took over, teacher + student pedagogical shift in the branding from some corps, the BOA "Music For All" deal, the marketing dynamics,...all of it points to BOA and DCI becoming tied together in some form down the road.

As always, most of us as fans only have the outward appearance of things to go on, and don't usually have access to what may (or may not) be part of the Acheson or McCormick mindset for the future...so maybe we're all off base.

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Again...my sense is Coop is a troll.

Throw a bunch of crap on the wall and then never show up in the thread again.

There's nothing to discuss here.

Drum corps is alive and people are paying to see it performed.

There and I didn't even say the "a word", the "m word" or the "n word."

Resort to name calling...that's beneficial. This has become a very large topic. I had no idea I would open up this kind of discussion. And yes to those out there I was familiar with Beltshazzar's Feast before I heard Star play it. Mr. Boo you said to go listen to a corps show two or three times and then it will become familiar. Last time I looked shows are far apart and some of us are lucky enough just to catch one. And before anyone says "see several webcasts" money doesn't grow on trees. And that's not the point. I've gotten the CD's and DVD's from 1978 to the present. I don't fine myself listening over and over to the ones I have in this decade like I do those from the '70's, '80's and '90's. There are only a few that I like from this present decade, like I mentioned before the 2002 Cavies, but I don't find myself particularly wanting to go back to those. I still think the musicianship is awesome and the drill is incredible. I know it's all a matter of opinion and maybe my tastes have changed, but you people who want to resort to name calling shouldn't cast stones at people especially those you know absolutely nothing about, nor how life can get in the way of answering a thread in a timely manner for those who have nothing better to do. :rolleyes:

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... except for the fact that they will be sharing the same office space, and this is essentially a precursor to a merger.

If DCI and BOA do not merge or become part of the same umbrella organization within the next 4 years, I will personally buy you one doughnut (sprinkles if you like) every single day for the rest of your life.

Sorry if this goes too far off topic but - my understanding is that the offices will be in the same vicinity but they will not be sharing the same office space. I heard talk of DCI sharing space with some other organizations moving to Indy (such as the Percussive Arts Society).

Bands of America, Inc. actually already merged (in Sept 2006) with the Music For All Foundation to form Music For All, Inc. So, technically, DCI and BOA couldn't merge, even if they wanted to.

While there are certainly similarities in the on the field products and in the behind the scenes event operations, there is a fundamental difference in the corporate governance structure. I find it difficult to believe the DCI Board of Directors made up almost exclusively of corps directors would be willing to give up their control / power / authority. Just speculating, but I would think that it would be especially difficult for the BOA people and the YEA/USSBA people to get together.

I really like doughnuts - but you can hold the sprinkles. Back in the day when I started eating doughnuts, sprinkles weren't even an option. They are not real doughnuts if you have to add sprinkles.

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Exactly. It's a business, plain and simple.

If it is a "business", then it isn't a very successful one. Attendance is down. Participating corps are down. Membership across the board is down. While I am amazed at the musicianship and abilities of the performers, I am frustrated at the lack of marketability of the product.

I agree with Coop. (I also marched with you in 83 Cavies). I started watching corps in 71 and took some time off from 92-04. I have attended several shows since then as well as watched the webcast of San Antonio. I wish I liked what I was seeing more than I did. Let's hope someone sees the downward spiral and listens to the consumer.

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