SCVsopAaron's blunt review of SA...

[skajerk]

... Crown - HOLY AWESOMENESSSSS!!! Favorite corps of the night. I swear people. Freakin' ya. Hornline, you are ny heroes... The only corps of the night I jumped up for! William Tell = BIG grin...

The Cadets - As much as I support the use of narration, they took it too far and ruined parts of what could be an otherwise stellar show... I was distracted from their awesome hornline by emoness...

Totally agree with Crown. I've just really never cared too much for them... until last night. Man what a nice surprise. I have new favorite show! Thanks Crown.

And you owe me a new tablet for the "emoness" comment.

Good review.

[ScribeToo]

That's all well and good, but let's face it - the Cavies' brassline has never played well!

I try to make every effort not to respond to a review as though it's a post on the rest of the site, but I can't ignore this.

I guess you forgot how to spell "IMO" ..

I happen to be one of the apparently few (by your count -- which is clearly the authority on the issue) who DO look forward to hearing Cavaliers' "less than stellar brass line" and I also suppose that Jim Ott Trophy which, when earned by ANY OTHER CORPS is somehow more legitimate than when earned by the Cavaliers I saw sitting in the corps office was just a figment of my imagination?

YOU prefer a different kind of sound. The judges use SET CRITERIA for arriving at their scores (even the brass score).. and just because the "best brass line" in YOUR OPINION didn't win it doesn't mean it's being won by a corps whose brassline you didn't like means that award is illegitimate.

Now I'm going to go kick my cat and go to bed angry (not really.. that was sarcasm).

Stef

[supersop]

Go watch Crown and Cadets warm up in the lot and tell me which one is fuller and louder.

And wouldn't you think that with the supposed mics on the members that they would run the risk of picking up individual soudns through the speakers? If anyone asks me about Crown, of course they're hornline sounds awesome. However, they are falling behind because of clarity, not the fullness of sound. That seems pretty obvious.

I agree that both lines sound incredible standing still in the lot.

Moving:

I agree that Cadets ask more of their membership from an individual visual demand standpoint (AND ALWAYS HAVE)..... which in turn filters through their horns and often gives them a bright and harsh sound. Still loud ... still executed well from a timing standpoint ... still highly technical at pounding buttons .. but not as musical or rich in sound as Crown. Are Cadets focusing on overtones ..... or peeling paint? (it's the latter)

Those are the tradeoffs ... and those are the points that have been debated since 1985. Which is better is a matter of taste ... and my taste says that Crown edges Cadets on the field in front of the audience ... and that goes for just about every other hornline every night in any stadium. Better quality of sound ... getting closer in technical proficiency and just as impressive as the big dogs.

[Bob984]

I agree that both lines sound incredible standing still in the lot.

Moving:

I agree that Cadets ask more of their membership from an individual visual demand standpoint (AND ALWAYS HAVE)..... which in turn filters through their horns and often gives them a bright and harsh sound. Still loud ... still executed well from a timing standpoint ... still highly technical at pounding buttons .. but not as musical or rich in sound as Crown. Are Cadets focusing on overtones ..... or peeling paint? (it's the latter)

Those are the tradeoffs ... and those are the points that have been debated since 1985. Which is better is a matter of taste ... and my taste says that Crown edges Cadets on the field in front of the audience ... and that goes for just about every other hornline every night in any stadium. Better quality of sound ... getting closer in technical proficiency and just as impressive as the big dogs.

Crown's hornline has been "hosed" by the judges all year long..........it's that simple.............GB

[Matt_S]

---> I seriously hope Cavies don't win. People keep sayin that Cavies are having a down year, which simply isn't true. This is just the first year in a long time that rather than doing a total effect show, they've relied more heavily on the music end. That's all well and good, but let's face it - the Cavies' brassline has never played well! Even in the past several years where they've won brass, couldn't you think of at least two brassline that should have been over them? (Judging integrity, anyone?) The Cavies are a perennial visual and general effect powerhouse, and should ride that out as long as they can. No one ever goes to a show saying, "man, I can't wait to hear that Cavies brassline!"

Ha! I'm actually shocked to read that. Even in years when they didn't win brass, The Cavaliers have definitely played well. Since 2002, they've been one of the very best hornlines in DCI. Pick a year, and it's hard to not be impressed. Me thinks you're perhaps remembering the corps as it was before the current dynasty, when the horline actually was a weakness. Now, it's most definitely one of the corps I very much look forward to hearing; in fact, I went to two shows already this year saying exactly that.

[triplefunk]

No one ever goes to a show saying, "man, I can't wait to hear that Cavies brassline!"

I do.

[Medeabrass]

Go watch Crown and Cadets warm up in the lot and tell me which one is fuller and louder.

And wouldn't you think that with the supposed mics on the members that they would run the risk of picking up individual soudns through the speakers? If anyone asks me about Crown, of course they're hornline sounds awesome. However, they are falling behind because of clarity, not the fullness of sound. That seems pretty obvious.

I went and watched Crown warm up and I watched a 6 hour block of brass rehearsal in the gym on Friday during Tropical Storm San Antonio. I didn't get to see Cadets warmup but heard them at the show. Crown has the fullest sound at ALL dynamic levels that I've heard in a long long time. They are finally achieving the sound that this staff is going for. Cadets hornline was great, but their high brass sticks out waaay too much. Really, I think this is something that all corps have struggled with since the switch to Bb (low brass presence that is). I imagine it has something to do with the construction of the istruments. I've been very pleased with how much this has improved in the last few years, but I feel most corps regressed in this regard this year. Maybe the fad this year is to have screaming trumpets playing out of the context of the ensemble. Maybe this is done by design...I don't know.

During performances, I was paying particular attention to the hornlines when they were playing softly. Almost all of the corps did a good job of not having individuals sticking out at high volumes...most struggled with tone quality though. It was interesting to see these same hornlines struggle with balance, blend, and intonation at the lower dynamic levels.

To be honest, I was very surprised that Crown placed as high as they did. I remember hearing atleast 2 ensemble tears...one of which took a long time to correct itself. There were many blown attacks and releases (especially in light of what I heard at their rehearsal). I think the tears were probably a result of them listening to the echo too much. It was funny to turn around and look at Donnie Vandoren's face at some of these points in the show. I've come to know "the look" when he's not happy about a performance. The tone quality, balance and blend was spot on though. The Alamodome takes a lot of fun out of listening to brass because all nuance and subtlety are lost.

Some have said they don't think this show has far enough to grow to move up but I think, atleast from a brass point of view, that they have a whole lot more cleaning to do. They're to the point that they've got enough clarity that the little hairs are beginning to stick out. These are defects that you won't even begin to hear in most other lines because their overall clarity and attention to detail and exposure aren't even close. The judges appear to be penalizing them for this right now. I think the judges will be "reminded" of this, but more importantly, if they can get all of those hairs in place then I think they could make huge leaps in brass. After seeing these kids up close the other day, I could tell that they just had the "look" that they are on the verge of putting it all together. The next few weeks will be fun to watch.

On a side note, I'm hopeful that most corps will dedicate a large % of the increased membership to low brass next year.

Edited July 23, 2007 by Medeabrass

[Medeabrass]

Ha! I'm actually shocked to read that. Even in years when they didn't win brass, The Cavaliers have definitely played well. Since 2002, they've been one of the very best hornlines in DCI. Pick a year, and it's hard to not be impressed. Me thinks you're perhaps remembering the corps as it was before the current dynasty, when the horline actually was a weakness. Now, it's most definitely one of the corps I very much look forward to hearing; in fact, I went to two shows already this year saying exactly that.

Agreed...they have a very good "wind ensemble" approach to things that I happen to like. My only gripe, as with most hornlines, is I'd like more low brass presence. :)

[DC1992]

--->Rather than write my own review of these groups, I'm going to piggy-back off of this one....

The Cadets - As much as I support the use of narration, they took it too far and ruined parts of what could be an otherwise stellar show... I was distracted from their awesome hornline by emoness.

---> The disappointing thing about this show is that the book, the playing, and the marching are all fantastic, yet I laughed at them. The narration wasn't too hilarious until that Napolean Dynamite kid came out and started talking about not fitting in. Calling themselves "athletes of god" was a little wierd too. Here's a disappointing thought about cadets. An acquaintance of mine is a brass caption head for a top 6 corps. He was explaining to me that the Cadets never turn off the microphones that their members speak into, then place those members throughout the forms so a good portion of the brassline gets picked up through the sound system. There's nothing technically wrong with that, but until the revelation, I was scratching my head and wondering how the loudest brassline of the evening could have that much edge and brightness in their sound. Answer...they weren't really the loudest....err...fullest brassline.

It's already been mentioned, BUT, this defies all logic. Simply put, the microphone on the hornline member is meant for speaking, and would not be effective in amplifying a hornline. Any attempts to amplify the sound of the hornline through this mic would be obvious and not sound good at all. What is even more scary is that supposedly a brass caption head from a top 6 corps told you this!!?

[hammondbrass]

I was at the Atlanta show with goldingna and before we had talked to the "top 6 caption head" there was something about Cadets' sound that I couldn't put my finger on either. They were noticeably louder than the rest of the corps; in the dome, their sound appeared to be reaching my ears differently than all the previous corps; it was a noticeably brighter/edgy-er sound than others; when the horn line was in different parts of the field some of their sound was still at the forefront, and it just struck me as odd.

So, goldingna and I were just (edited, for use of profanity - EE) with the "caption head" after the competition about the various shows and Cadets' show - which largely centers around voice amplification - came up. We all laughed about how the one guy sounds like Napoleon Dynamite and I mentioned how it was kinda funny that earlier in the season you could really hear the individuals out of breath when they took their cues to speak. That was when the "caption head" told us that it was some of the reason for the blasty-er/louder sound. All of a sudden, it clicked in my head that amplification might have been the reason for some of the discrepancies.

Now, the "caption head" didn't say that the Cadets were trying to use it to an unfair advantage, to belittle the Cadets' effort, or to promote a conspiracy. I think he mentioned it because it's true and he knows what he is talking about.

Having extensive experience while in the Navy band as a sound tech and trumpet player in the same big band we were mic-ing (with huge amps, mains and a $10,000 digital sound board), I know a thing or two about sound reenforcement. If the wireless microphones on the kids were left on during the entire show, yes, it would pick up the surrounding sounds in the horn line and drum line. It wouldn't be enough to make people noticeably stick out like a solo mic or anything, but if you have 5 kids with mics in a tight (i.e. cadets drill) formations - a presence would be projected through the mains (speakers for the layman). You wouldn't believe all the crap - mere whispers - being picked up from the stage. I mean, that's how politicians get into trouble.....

So, it's not entirely impossible for live microphones to be doing their job - amplifying sound. That's the whole challenge with sound reenforcement - amplifying (sometime manipulating) only the sounds you want. The Cadets know more than anyone the challenges of on-field amplification.