When it's time to walk away-

[Liam]

This is an indisputable fact. This is what I do for a living... consumer marketing, primarily focused on the youth market. Kids have A LOT more money to spend on non-essential purchases than adults.

I don't doubt that this is the case for souvies and probably even webcasts and apds, etc. But you also need to consider the direct donations that adults make that the young-uns don't -- the corps donations, the member sponsorships, the housing of members, the vounteering,etc. Some of it not cash (like volunteering or housing), but still something of value to the corps/activities that would otherwise have to be paid for some other way.

Not saying you're wrong -- I just wonder if we're looking at the whole picture rather than just the spending at (and related to) shows. :)

edit: (also the cost of getting to the event in the first place -- "vacation money" as pointed out be the following post -- .02 to X DM below :) )

Edited August 25, 2007 by Liam

[X DM]

This is an indisputable fact. This is what I do for a living... consumer marketing, primarily focused on the youth market. Kids have A LOT more money to spend on non-essential purchases than adults.

Well, you may be involved in " consumer marketing " , but your statement that " kids have a LOT more money to spend on non essential purchases than adults ( over 35 as you qualified it ) is simply ludicrous. First of all, " non essential services " are typically defined in economic terms as those purchases that are not considered "essential" such as purchases for food, shelter, clothing, and water. Thus, purchases for such things as " vacations ", " college ", TV's, "Computers", " Art, Music, Soccer and other costs, while desireable are not condsidered "essential " purchases. The biggest discretionary income holdings demographic is not " kids ", it is " empty nesters ", those defined as still working adults, but without dependent kids to financially support any longer.

[Liam]

Sorry, double post -- second time I've done this this week !!!

Edited August 25, 2007 by Liam

[Glassmen80]

OK... Here we go...

First, how many of you kids took you entire family across the country to go to DCI finals? We're talkin airlines, hotels, tickets for three nights, the food, the souvies, the whoele shootin' match... Look through the crowd and you will find many the vast majority of fans 35 and older. You think you have the younger generation has money to keep this activity alive by yourself...think agian. If everyone (admittedly mostly the 35+crowd) who did not like the Cadets show this year (by the way have have been a Cadets fan before anyone in DCI this year walked the earth) did not come back, DCI would financially be in a world of trouble. I am not for one second saying anyone will leave becasue of the Cadets show. I am just using the idea as a vehicle to make my point. Another financial point: Did anyone see how few people were around the Cadets souvenir booth in Pasadena? They were almost begging people to come to their booth. There are more people out there who don't like DCI's direction than you want to admit.

I happen to be in the original poster's camp. My line in the sand is synthesized electronics. When it comes in, I go out.

Change for change's sake is not good. If you keep changing an elephant....there comes a point where it's not an elephant anymore. Baseball and football have gone through changes, but the sports are still the same as they were 100 years ago. In my mind dci has almost come to the point where it is leaving the area of being an acoustic activity. Bb instruments, three valves, grounded percussion is all fine. Those are changes that are acoustic in nature. Kids have to play it right to get credit. We now have narration that doesn't even fit on the judges sheet. We have adults adjusting the volumes of kid that are performing. What next; do we allow the instructors to conduct and get away from drum majors? There's a change that would be fresh...

The idea that changes are happening for the kids sake is laughable. If there were no electronics on the field at all, audition numbers woud be no different. Raise your hand if you have a kid or no a kid that tryed out for a corps because they wanted the electronic part. Don't bring up 2005 Cadets because the singer was recruited by Hopkins himself.

Those of you who are under 35 who think you have the power are wrong. You are at this time on the side of the fence of the Board of Directors. That doesn't mean you have the financial power. If enough fans withdraw their support because they don't like the direction, dci will fall on hard times. I am not predicting it will happen.

I am a band director of over 20 years in Ohio, and an alumni of dci. When dci adds synthesized sound, I will no longer bring my band or my family to dci events. We will go to BOA. Yes I have a speaker and microphone on the field this year for our show. Its so we can hear the tenor saxophone solist.

Big rant, a bit unorganized, sorry...

I am not asking anyone to agree.

In fact, feel free to disagree.

[Liam]

Glassmen80 -- just pulling this one part out of your longer post to resond to right now:

I happen to be in the original poster's camp. My line in the sand is synthesized electronics. When it comes in, I go out.

Obviously you can do what you want, and only you can speak for yourself on this, but my advice to you (or anyone) would be to at least experience the things on the other side of your line at least once. Like you tell a child with new foods -- "just try it once, if you don't like it -- fine. But don't say you hate peas without at least trying them." There are folks on these boards that had narration as their line in the sand -- many have checked it out and still feel that way. But some have seen/heard some things that have softened their stance a bit. Neither is right or wrong -- only each person can speak for their own likes and dislikes. Just some friendly advice -- no reflection on you if you choose to take it or not, just suggesting that there may be an off-chance that you like something you didn't think you would, that's all :)

(and maybe "trying" it requires you to take a few years off until the bugs are worked out and then checking it out again. Just saying don't paint yourself into a corner of ignoring something that may actually not be as bad as you fear. :) )

Edited August 25, 2007 by Liam

[X DM]

Anyone that thinks that the primary revenue source for DCI Corps and for DCI Operations in general comes from the under 35 age demographic and not the over 35 age demographic is simply ill informed.

Show me a college football, college basketball, or college band booster club that thinks that it's ok to ignore the over 35 aged fan, and I 'll show you a college football, college basketball, college band, etc that is financially heading straight to a town named Oblivion.

Edited August 25, 2007 by X DM

[footform]

When (or if) to walk away is a very personal thing. I marched the early 70s, taught a couple years, then went away. I touched base very occasionally until taking my oldest to a show in Pittsburgh. Her excitement re-kindled mine, but I still wasn't sure drum corps was "enough the same" to warrant more than parental interest. A conversation with the BOD president while at a YEA audition camp got me thinking about what we did and why, and how the old corps's innovations within the framework of the rules (whoever made them up -- AL, VFW, DCI) had opened the door for what has come after. Could we really reject all innovations just because we did it differently? I think not. I also think there are few on this forum who really reject ALL changes that have taken place since marching (or first watching) in insert date here. That group of folks is mostly not going to be bothering to put in the effort to log in to DCP. What we have is caring individuals, some more polite than others, but all passionate about the subject. For example, I don't reject narration, per se, but I do reject the idea that so-so narration replaces show design that engages the imagination. Relax, not Cadets specific -- my theatre trained sensibilities were more bothered by Boston a couple years back when the description of how/what I was supposed to be feeling diminished my opportunity to just feel it -- although I didn't enjoy being repeatedly ripped away from enjoying the music and marching.

I decided to look for what were the core items I cared about in corps and looked for those as I took the 15-16 year old to audition and liked what I saw generally, but also saw a need for bringing/keeping some of the values in what we do. Anyway -- see sig for travels since 99 -- I am still teaching corps, supporting members, and being dad to everyone.

And every year I re-evaluate...should I walk away. Frankly, I like teaching corps more than I like watching much of it. There's probably some weird disconnect there, but it works for me. If I stopped doing corps, I probably would go to see an occasional show in Madison. Drive to Indy or farther with attendant expense -- not for me, but maybe okay for you.

For the OP, it may be time to walk, it may be time to re-consider how you are involved. Whatever you decide, please keep track of the activity and come on back when/if it feels right.

[X DM]

When (or if) to walk away is a very personal thing. I marched the early 70s, taught a couple years, then went away. I touched base very occasionally until taking my oldest to a show in Pittsburgh. Her excitement re-kindled mine, but I still wasn't sure drum corps was "enough the same" to warrant more than parental interest. A conversation with the BOD president while at a YEA audition camp got me thinking about what we did and why, and how the old corps's innovations within the framework of the rules (whoever made them up -- AL, VFW, DCI) had opened the door for what has come after. Could we really reject all innovations just because we did it differently? I think not. I also think there are few on this forum who really reject ALL changes that have taken place since marching (or first watching) in insert date here. That group of folks is mostly not going to be bothering to put in the effort to log in to DCP. What we have is caring individuals, some more polite than others, but all passionate about the subject. For example, I don't reject narration, per se, but I do reject the idea that so-so narration replaces show design that engages the imagination. Relax, not Cadets specific -- my theatre trained sensibilities were more bothered by Boston a couple years back when the description of how/what I was supposed to be feeling diminished my opportunity to just feel it -- although I didn't enjoy being repeatedly ripped away from enjoying the music and marching.

I decided to look for what were the core items I cared about in corps and looked for those as I took the 15-16 year old to audition and liked what I saw generally, but also saw a need for bringing/keeping some of the values in what we do. Anyway -- see sig for travels since 99 -- I am still teaching corps, supporting members, and being dad to everyone.

And every year I re-evaluate...should I walk away. Frankly, I like teaching corps more than I like watching much of it. There's probably some weird disconnect there, but it works for me. If I stopped doing corps, I probably would go to see an occasional show in Madison. Drive to Indy or farther with attendant expense -- not for me, but maybe okay for you.

For the OP, it may be time to walk, it may be time to re-consider how you are involved. Whatever you decide, please keep track of the activity and come on back when/if it feels right.

Nicely put, and I certainly understand the sentiments. I'd say most of the former fans that were more angered or disillusioned than most of the posters we currently read on DCP are no longer following or working in the activity..Those posters are no longer passionate, nor angry, nor disillusioned. They have left the activity altogether. The ones that may be still be angry and passionate stiil about the activity and make their feellngs known in public havn't thrown in the towel yet, and we see them still on forums like DCP occasionally.

Edited August 25, 2007 by X DM

[Jpn]

Walked out of Finals in 2006 (after staying through Semi's) -- I don't think I will ever be back to DCI Finals (unless its in my backyard). I suppose I might go to a few local shows and the DCA's Alumni show.

Sad, but true, that DCI is now longer a drum corps organization, despite the title. Oh well, took up golf this year.

Jon

Madison Alum

[HockeyDad]

This is an indisputable fact. This is what I do for a living... consumer marketing, primarily focused on the youth market. Kids have A LOT more money to spend on non-essential purchases than adults.

Apples and oranges, my friend. Kids might spend more money on "non-essential purchases" but that does NOT mean that kids have more money to spend on non-essential purchases. And, what non-essential purchases are kids spending their money on? We're talking about money spent on the drum corps activity, not on IPods or roller blades or other electronic gadgets. I have no doubt kids spend more money on that stuff. But when I go to Quarterfinals, Semifinals and Finals, and look around me, I see alot more people like me (and their children!) than "kids." So, I don't think the marketing studies you're thinking about traslate to this.