ESPN2 (the review)

[rut-roh]

I'm a little confused about everyone saying the DCI telecast was top 12 live back in the 70's and 80's.

I started watching the DCI telecast in 1979, my brother's first year, and it was a full 12 corps show but it was not live. I marched until 1988 and during that time it was not live until either 1987 or 1988, and then when it did become a live show it went from being a full 12 corps show to being a 5 corps show. This changed to 6 corps sometime in the 90's.

Oh and even when it was broadcast live, that doesn't mean the PBS station in your area would neccesarily carry it live. I know the PBS stations in michigan always showed it on labor day weekend even though it was a live show.

Some people had to wait until Thanksgiving to see the show on PBS. My local station hardly ever carried it. I had to live off of bootlegs. So yeah, I'm glad I know exactly when and where it will be on nowadays. Do I expect to ever see full 11.5 minute shows on this broadcast ever again? Nope. Not on commercial television in this day and age. But I digress, it's all DCI's fault. :P

[GMKuzma]

Some good points made here on this topic...

It all seems to boil down to people not being comfortable with change. Sure, I remember the PBS broadcast on Thanksgiving (and how it stopped being run in my market). Do I miss it? HECK YES!

But...now that DCI has created another "channel" for us to see it on commercial TV that airs in many, many markets...it's different and that's bad, right?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I will definitely take what I can get. Broadcasting DCI on ESPN2 is a major step in the right direction to keep the activity on the forefront of mainstream America. It's professionally made and packs a lot of information in what little time they have to air it. I say it's a good investment...the alternative would be no DCI on TV because as ScribeToo mentioned, PBS was losing interest in running the broadcast.

I would like to encourage DCI and the networks to broadcast MORE shows or re-play the broadcast several times a year.

-=GM=-

[MikeD]

"Live On PBS":

The entire show was telecast (The first being from Franklin Field in Philadelphia, in 1975), LIVE, on PBS, for many years. The program was later reduced to a two hour broadcast of the top six or seven, but again it was in "Real Time"...

And: It was FREE!!!!

Elphaba

WWW

No, it was not FREE. That kind of thought process is why it is NOT on PBS any longer.

The purpose behnid showing it was to entice drum corps fans to pay for a membership with their PBS Affiiliate.

[MikeD]

Fair enough. But perhaps if enough people watch the broadcast on ESPN 2 (ugh, 2? reminds me of "Dodgeball"), the sports channel might extend the show to include a few full 11 minute performances. Considering it's a pay cable station, instead of begging for more money, the issue of how much "show" to show wouldn't be a problem.

As I understand it...and may be wrong...I thought DCI pays ESPN2 for the airtime, and then they sell commercials to recoup some of the cost.

[Contra Joe]

OK Old Man....time to take your meds and change your diaper.

Did they have a 5 hour live broadcast from quarterfinals on the big screens of movie theaters in your day?

Did they have live streaming of Semi-finals on your computer...err typwriter?

Did that offer DVDs with multiple audio tracks, commentaries, camera angles and more?

Did they broadcast on a prestigious network like ESPN that made our goofy little activity seem a little less nerdy to the rest of the world because we were on the same channel the cool jocks watch?

Didn't think so. See you at Denny's for the early bird special.

Nice, Cut someone down for their opinion. Punk <**> <**> <**>

[Contra Joe]

Some good points made here on this topic...

It all seems to boil down to people not being comfortable with change. Sure, I remember the PBS broadcast on Thanksgiving (and how it stopped being run in my market). Do I miss it? HECK YES!

But...now that DCI has created another "channel" for us to see it on commercial TV that airs in many, many markets...it's different and that's bad, right?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I will definitely take what I can get. Broadcasting DCI on ESPN2 is a major step in the right direction to keep the activity on the forefront of mainstream America. It's professionally made and packs a lot of information in what little time they have to air it. I say it's a good investment...the alternative would be no DCI on TV because as ScribeToo mentioned, PBS was losing interest in running the broadcast.

I would like to encourage DCI and the networks to broadcast MORE shows or re-play the broadcast several times a year.

-=GM=-

Nothing to do with change. Change is good but to get highlights only. Why wouldn't you want to see the entire show of at least the top few corps or even the winning corps. Why does everything an older person say have to do with CHANGE IS BAD. Well in this case IT SUCKS. SORRRY BUT ONE DAY YOU WILL UNDERSTAND.. Maybe drum corps will still exist, but I doubt it...LOL

<**>

[Dale Bari]

No, it was not FREE.

Yes, it was FREE!

What part of over-the-air (free) TV versus cable (pay) TV don't you people understand?

(And not just MikeD, but everybody who said the same thing.)

Also, The Deuce is not always a part of the basic cable package. Just because one gets ESPN doesn't automatically mean one gets ESPN2 without paying anything extra on top of the basic cable bill.

Bill Cook stopped underwriting a large portion of the costs of producing the live DCI broadcast for PBS, and no other source of funds was found to replace that. In that situation, it was understandable for PBS to drop it. Who was gonna pick up the tab to produce it? PBS wasn't going to air it FREE to DCI. But, it was always FREE for us to view it. Besides, the delayed broadcast stayed on air until much more recently.

As MikeD (among others) has pointed out, DCI pays ESPN2 to air the Finals show. So, all you people who shell out those dollars to buy Regionals/Finals tickets, DVDs, etc, you're paying DCI to make the show, then you pay ESPN2 (through your cable TV fees) again when you flick on your box. Yes, I know DCI recoups some of that money from the few advertisers they get, but if the show ran in the black, DCI wouldn't have to pay out to air it - ESPN/ESPN2 would be bidding for the job.

DCI can remain on cable TV so long as ESPN2 has airtime to fill. But what'll you do if they decide to charge DCI a price that it can't meet?

DCI used to be a niche activity. Now, it has become a niche of a niche.

[Truxman]

DCI can remain on cable TV so long as ESPN2 has airtime to fill. But what'll you do if they decide to charge DCI a price that it can't meet?

Then they don't air it anymore, which was JUST announced on www.dci.org

http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=9...95-fc05eed6d41e

[O.P.]

I thought the program was awesome.

In fact, here's a little story that a bunch of die-hard fans who yearn for the good old days of 15hr live broadcasts for free won't want to hear.

My mother called me today to tell me she watched the show on ESPN2 last night. She actually called me during the commercials last night, too but I had my phone turned off... so I also have a string of voice mails from her.

A little history, my mother has never been "into" drum corps. She has often loudly commented about how she couldn't wait until I "outgrew this phase" and started behaving like an adult in the summer for once. She was NOT a fan -- even after all my 20-something years involved. She tolerated it, but just barely.

So.. fast-forward to today. She calls me at work and she's positively GUSHING about the show. She said she didn't even know it was on but came home just a little after it started and sat down and watched the whole thing.

She said, "I loved the bit of background they gave about each group" (she knows better than to call them bands.. though I know she wanted to) "and then they show you some of their show.. It was really exciting! I even called my neighbor!"

In her voicemails last night, she had me and my friends chuckling about "the North Carolina Crown" and "the Phantom Regimentals" and how good their precision was.. and how she liked their guard uniforms.

So today, after we talked about it for a little bit, I asked her who her favorite was. She told me she "really liked Blue Knights because of their uniforms" and then (oh my god, batten the hatches folks, a total non-fan response about to hit the fan) she said, "but I REALLY loved the Cadets! I liked how they said it straight out and then they were playing all that fun music and going so fast!"

I swear to you I am not making this up. My mom LIKED the Cadets AND SPECIFICALLY their narration. O. M. G. :o

It is fair to say that my mom grew up in North Jersey but never heard of Garfield or Holy Name or even CBC until I discovered them in 1984.. so I suspect she went in liking them because of the Jersey roots talked about in the little preamble.. but then they knocked her socks off.

She said that.

She said they knocked her socks off.

My 60-something year old (oh Lordy, don't anybody tell her I almost posted her age) mother who has only ever been a drum corps "tolerator" even said to me, "I think I might like to see a show next season if it's that good."

That's where I almost had to pick myself up off the floor.

I have taken my mom to shows in the past. She sat through them.. always wanted to leave early.. complained about the heat.. really never liked it much... all the while I kept telling her, "wait.. the next corps is really really good..." and through her crossed arms and single arched eyebrow, I knew I wasn't getting anywhere.

Then she saw it on ESPN2 and she got herself a little hooked.

Thank you DCI and ESPN2 for finally showing my mom what drum corps is in a way that made sense to her. Thank you for helping her finally see that it really IS something she can actually enjoy with her daughter -- not just tolerate.

Another confirmation of something I have personally been pushing here for some time: ie., that the activitym if it is going to grow, needs to realize what flaws we have and change them to appeal to a bigger market. ESPN, with their professional TV producers, who understanding marketing to mass audiences have told the drum corps activity that our shows are too long and too boring to maintain the attention span of the average viewer. They have done this by editing their broadcast. We should listen, "Not Jennifer's" mom confirms this. ANd this is a woman who has seen a live show. I rest my case.

Thanks for sharing that. More proof for me to continue this dialogue.

[Dale Bari]

Another confirmation of something I have personally been pushing here for some time: ie., that the activitym if it is going to grow, needs to realize what flaws we have and change them to appeal to a bigger market. ESPN, with their professional TV producers, who understanding marketing to mass audiences have told the drum corps activity that our shows are too long and too boring to maintain the attention span of the average viewer. They have done this by editing their broadcast. We should listen, "Not Jennifer's" mom confirms this. ANd this is a woman who has seen a live show. I rest my case.

Thanks for sharing that. More proof for me to continue this dialogue.

Let's try this analogy. Many people have been advocating and supportive of the changes DCI has made to junior drum corps, eg Bb brass, amps, narration, the change in format of the Finals broadcast. Their positions usually rest on the idea that, if you make drum corps more accessible to the general public, esp the fans of marching bands (which are way more numerous than dc fans), DCI can prosper.

So, if DCI is going to emulate marching bands to gain a wider following, why not go all out? I mean, if you're going to make fundamental changes, make 'em big! If a little emulation gets you some new fans, big time changes should get you LOTS of new fans! Is that not the logic of the above post (and the story NotJennifer related?)

OK, so what is the most popular form of marching band? It's not the uptight, corps-style -ahem- I mean, BOA-style band. It's the "Drumline", Grambling Tiger, pelvic-thrusting, Outkast-playing style marching band. Who gets crowds more revved up, the former or the latter? That's why the "Drumline" plot plays out the way it does. Who's going to see a film about a talented, but uneducated kid drumming in a stick-up-their-butt, lily-white, BOA-style marching band? What bands get shown at half-time on any cable broadcast of a college football game? Not Michigan or USC. Nope, it's Grambling, Southern, FAMU, or SC State.

If popularity is really the Holy Grail DCI seeks, they'll get a whole lot better ratings (not to mention a new TV home) if they turn drum corps into summer touring versions of "The Battle of The Bands" during the Southern Classic as shown on BET.

So, now it simply becomes a question of "How much will you charge the Devil for your soul?" It's been my contention all along, and a whole lot of other people's too, that making that kind of deal was bad.

And now, in light of DCI now having NO place to be aired for the viewing public to see, it is possible that someone else might realize DCI made a bad deal.