CoHmempho04 Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I don't know if anyone has said this I kind of flew through the writings but... Wouldn't darker uniforms clean up the visual??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickCogley Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 During camps, we didn't focus on learning all of the music or tons of drill or anything. For the most part, all of the learning began right at the beginning of move-ins. Over the course of the "camp season" the design team would throw a bunch of different ideas at at us, and by the time pre-tour came around, we had a really good framework in place, and a schedule for adding nuances to the show.The changes made to the show during the summer, for the most part, were planned from the beginning. It wasn't, "this doesn't work now so let's try something different". I think if Phantom can have their show figured out from the beginning they will have a better chance at getting the trophy. I appreciate your telling us about Cavaliers' approach. Very interesting. It sounds like the Cavaliers have high organizational maturity, to be able to keep the nuance additions tightly scheduled, like you mention. Thanks for the insight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kansan Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 (edited) To win, they need a guy and a gal out in front explaining every move the corps does and every movement of music. :P Really, I have always like the way Phantom looks. I don't have enough long hairs to appreciate the classical music like I should. I like to think they should just keep plugging away and not change at all and they will win the whole bannana someday. Just a silly thought: Have they exhausted their Classical theme like Troopers did their Western theme? I don't see people beating them up about it so maybe not. I still wonder, though, how it would go if Phantom deviated from their MO and played say, Jazz, just once. Think of it, Phantom going toe to toe mono e mono with BD. Probably wouldn't get them a win but these boards would be loaded with opinion. Seriously, I like Phantom the way they are. Maybe some Kilts though. Edited September 8, 2007 by Kansan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvertrombone Posted September 8, 2007 Author Share Posted September 8, 2007 I think they're on the right track and are miles ahead of where they were in the late 90's/early 00's. This is a testament to the quality and dedication of the corps staff. However, I do agree somewhat with the sentiment that the corps' shows sometimes feel a little too incomplete in the beginning. This is nothing new--our show in 94 was completely different from June to July to August. I'm not talking tweaks either--completely different. (Mostly drill, but some music as well.) It was in a constant state of flux and cleaning didn't really start until August. This doesn't mean that everything should be set in stone--what sounds good on paper may not always translate well on the field. Still, the corps might benefit from having the overall show more in-place by the time actual competition begins. Neither of us was there in 93, but this was a "signature move" of the visual designer in that era. Throw everything on the drill charts in June and change what didn't work. Just crap from a strategy perspective. It's funny 'cause if they did all these things you people reccomend, you would still undermine everything they do-- people are on here saying now Phantom does too much playing and moving? Are you out of your ####### minds? Suggestion for you when you get a little bit older--lose the term "you people." Might save you some serious trouble. That one's free. I think one of their big issues, well two issues actually are staff retention, and, sorry to say, knowing how to write for white uniforms. Excellent point. I haven't really delved into that too much, but others have pointed out that the all-white hurts when you look at Cavies and BD. Cadets have to be more clean in that area with the cream lowers. Interesting point to discuss. What does Phantom Regiment have to do to win?To quote H.P. Lovecraft, "When the Stars are right." We had the moon in 94. Didn't do much good. Beat Cavies, though! During camps, we didn't focus on learning all of the music or tons of drill or anything. For the most part, all of the learning began right at the beginning of move-ins. Over the course of the "camp season" the design team would throw a bunch of different ideas at at us, and by the time pre-tour came around, we had a really good framework in place, and a schedule for adding nuances to the show.The changes made to the show during the summer, for the most part, were planned from the beginning. It wasn't, "this doesn't work now so let's try something different". I think if Phantom can have their show figured out from the beginning they will have a better chance at getting the trophy. Great perspective, Jay--thanks for chiming in! That's the strategic planning thing I'm always talking about. Get people on board who just ooze ideas from September to May, throw them out there at camps, etc, put together the "winning" show for first tour, then make "tweak" changes, not major, show-altering changes. Add visual effects leading up to finals, not add the visual show finals week. This is strategy. And calendar management. Concept, Concept, Concept. I hate to believe this but, too convoluted a concept does not a champion make. What did "On Air" mean to you? I had no idea. It could have meant many things to many people, including those judging the subjective captions. If they don't get it, you're screwed. Blue Coats "Criminal" was the perfect example of taking an easily understood concept, and working it to death.Keep it simple! RM - ampssuck You know, if you want to see a "bird" show, I'd personally like to see La Gaza Ladra by Rossini. "The Thieving Magpie." Have a guard member dressed in purple shimmering costume going around the field "stealing" various items from members to go with the story of the original music. A baldric here. A sash there. Baritone player's helmet (fluffy feathers, you know). Trumpet player's instrument--a little "block" tug-of-war that the "bird" wins. Bird and point trumpet in a block jostle over the instrument while the corps proper rotates around the trumpet player. Imagine the "Machine" tug of war with the guard members. Bird goes around to the snares during their solo and grabs alternating drum sticks so that half of the snares are playing with left stick only, half with right only--playing one solo split between the line! The "bird" even climbs the Conductor's stand and steals his baton! No worries, he has another one, and does that "signature" grab the baton from your back--DURING THE SHOW!! I mean, if you've got a signature move like that, might as well throw it in! Now THAT'S a show for the birds! Er,bird. Magpie. Just one. Oh, don't forget the silver spoon. Magpie stole it, causing the whole stink in the opera in the first place. Have a big nest near the front sideline where the birdie stashes all her loot. Fun. Oh, great points, Spook. And it's not like there's any shortage of thematic material in classical music. For Regiment to win...Go with Dynasty drums! Check! It's all settled then! SpookyKid said That's interesting. I love the visual in the 89 show - sharp, stately, gorgeous - and I will have to check it out again for the things mentioned above. Now, the music is more frenetic, I think, which might not lend itself to a stately sort of look. But, maybe it's a matter of really developing the vocabulary they use, visually, to a different and unique level. Someone on DCP mentioned =really= developing dance vocabulary and not just dabbling in it. I would be interested to see Phantom attempt and succeed at something like that, as they have some ballet-related positions in there already, with the way they hold their feet at attention and so forth. It should be easy to incorporate even more, no? That said, perhaps the 07 show concept of kicking butt jazz running like that is their way of adding a visual component which, while it will take time to be recognized by the judges perhaps, will definitely be hard to copy once perfected (my heavens didn't that look hard though, wow). Who knows, it may end up being part of a winning combination. Jazz running + ballet movement = ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ Do it right. We already have second/fourth position. Refine the movement-for-the-sake-of-movement stuff and they've got it. Make these leg moves actually flow with the music, not just wiggle the left leg in the tuba section because they're standing there for three seconds. I don't know if anyone has said this I kind of flew through the writings but...Wouldn't darker uniforms clean up the visual??? No. Yes. And ugh! Just a silly thought:Have they exhausted their Classical theme like Troopers did their Western theme? I don't see people beating them up about it so maybe not. I still wonder, though, how it would go if Phantom deviated from their MO and played say, Jazz, just once. Think of it, Phantom going toe to toe mono e mono with BD. Probably wouldn't get them a win but these boards would be loaded with opinion. Seriously, I like Phantom the way they are. Maybe some Kilts though. No, they definitely have room to explore plenty of stuff. Geez, Nikk came up with about 30 potential show concepts or at least numbers the other day. I could add that many more. Then there's stuff like Spartacus that they've done that has been a quarter of a century ago. Lots of great stuff in the Regiment Classics recordings to "update." And like I said recently, white uppers with McCaslin (some of my ancestors!) family plaid patterned kilts to the music of Mendelssohn (Scottish Symphony #4) and others. And to have a toe-to-toe with BD in jazz, wouldn't BD have to start playing jazz, too??? Worked in 91 no matter what purists around here say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crfrey71 Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I want to see a modern treatment of Spartacusplease? I think it could win Yes, they need to do this, since that was their show the year that there is no known video from Finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I would prefer a more "impressionistic" approach that suggests birds, air and flight, rather than a "photo-realistic" approach that actually looks like those things. It's similar to when corps and bands spell words out on the field. Yuck. Sarcasm? Let's just be real here. If the Regiment were to have the succss (Championships) even remotely close to the top 3 corps, we would never even have this discussion. Would we? (Putting on conspiracy hat) I believe this all started with the 3 consecutive finishes from 77-79, setting a precedent for Regiment corps into the future. RM - It's cool ampssuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cire Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 the only way they will is if they tie again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 the only way they will is if they tie again. and I repeat, a tie, IS NOT a win! RM - ampssuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickCogley Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Sarcasm? Let's just be real here. If the Regiment were to have the succss (Championships) even remotely close to the top 3 corps, we would never even have this discussion. Would we? (Putting on conspiracy hat) I believe this all started with the 3 consecutive finishes from 77-79, setting a precedent for Regiment corps into the future. RM - It's cool ampssuck Not. I love Regiment, but I did not love the aspect of this years show that had guard members trying to be like birds. I thought that sort of thing failed to evoke much at all. That said I felt that there were some brilliant visual moments in Regiment's 07 show, when I watched the little videos on DCI.org. I am looking forward to getting the DVD, so I can see it on a larger screen. I have not had the pleasure of seeing them live, nor have I seen the final product. Can't wait to. And I believe you're right, RM, about the precedent. Sometimes it seems like things have simply been preordained, and it's irritating. Maybe quality-not-rewarded happened for several years, which caused Regiment to develop that thinking that the scores don't matter and so forth, and Dr. Dan's comment that they always seem to be playing catchup at the end of the season, and he doesn't know why. You would have to have a rationalization, as a group, wouldn't you, but that sort of thing will take the competitive edge off, in my opinion. They have the stuff to win. I just hope they do the tweaking a little earlier if possible. -- Rick - Not Sarcastic ($2 to RocketMan) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteblaze102 Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Not a lot of people are graduating from the hornline so we'll see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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