Difference between Bb and G horns

[Old School Contra Guy]

Our brass arranger wrote all the parts in Treble Clef. I could read treble clef, but I just had to associate the treble clef notation into something I could comprehend, in other words....transpose....

Dang...don't think I've seen this much traffic about Contras/Tubas ever !! See what I started ! B)

Edited October 18, 2007 by Old School Contra Guy

[ripper]

So if we really wanted to have fun we could play half a show in Bb and hold down the third valve for the second half and play in G just like the old days of 2 valve bugles LOL

Edited October 18, 2007 by ripper

[Einstein On The Beach]

But if you're writing it for a G contra line and you're writing in bass clef, what set of fingerings do you write it for? Bb fingerings? C fingerings? What about Eb, or F? This is why transposed bass clef is a bad idea, it loses the universality that treble clef holds. If you see a C below the staff in treble clef written for the instrument you're holding, you know exactly what note to play, even if in reality it's a G, or a Bb, or an Eb. Brass bands around the world have written their music in all treble clef for a very long time for exactly this reason. Rather than convincing drum corps guys to learn bass clef, I encourage tuba players to learn to read treble clef; a good tuba player ought to be able to read any music, rather than just what's native to his horn.

Some of what you say makes sense, but I'm still calling shenanagins on this post. Now mind you, I'm not a tuba player, but would someone care to tell me how writing tuba parts in treble clef is a good idea at all. Seriously.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but since all brass instruments are built based on the overtone series, this gets rid of the need to learn an entirely new set of fingerings for different horns. C is open on a Bb, Eb, F, G, or C trumpet. So what is the issue? Again, I'm not a tuba player and I don't feel like opening up an orchestration book right now. Explain my good man.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Einstein On The Beach

[piperguy]

Some of what you say makes sense, but I'm still calling shenanagins on this post. Now mind you, I'm not a tuba player, but would someone care to tell me how writing tuba parts in treble clef is a good idea at all. Seriously.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but since all brass instruments are built based on the overtone series, this gets rid of the need to learn an entirely new set of fingerings for different horns. C is open on a Bb, Eb, F, G, or C trumpet. So what is the issue? Again, I'm not a tuba player and I don't feel like opening up an orchestration book right now. Explain my good man.

I know it's an entirely different animal, but British Brass Bands write all parts, aside from the bass trombone and percussion, in treble clef. There is an interesting article on brass band scoring here.

[Einstein On The Beach]

I know it's an entirely different animal, but British Brass Bands write all parts, aside from the bass trombone and percussion, in treble clef. There is an interesting article on brass band scoring here.

Interesting. Is this common custom in American brass ensembles as well? Composers in the UK have always been a bit...odd.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Einstein On The Beach

[ravedodger]

Dang...don't think I've seen this much traffic about Contras/Tubas ever !! See what I started ! B)

You ain't joking. Bad contra. :P

[dbc03]

"Loud Is God":

YES!!!! They do INDEED "Sound Different" my pretties. The "G" bugle DEFINED drum corps. To hear that "G" bugle sound vist any Alumni rehearsal or performance. The LOUDER, the better.

Elphaba

WWW

I feel incredibly sorry for you that the horn you played defined drum corps for you.

[piperguy]

Interesting. Is this common custom in American brass ensembles as well? Composers in the UK have always been a bit...odd.

Actually, Brass Band music in general, wherever it's played, is written this way. I'm in an Army Band and occasionally I'll run across a trombone part (I play trombone, by the way) written in treble clef, especially with older marches. If that happens, it's an easy fix to add two flats and play it in tenor clef.

Edited October 18, 2007 by piperguy

[ravedodger]

Some of what you say makes sense, but I'm still calling shenanagins on this post. Now mind you, I'm not a tuba player, but would someone care to tell me how writing tuba parts in treble clef is a good idea at all. Seriously.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but since all brass instruments are built based on the overtone series, this gets rid of the need to learn an entirely new set of fingerings for different horns. C is open on a Bb, Eb, F, G, or C trumpet. So what is the issue? Again, I'm not a tuba player and I don't feel like opening up an orchestration book right now. Explain my good man.

I think that writing contra parts in treble clef started by default. I believe the contra wasn't around until 1965-67. The bass bugle wasn't commonly used until just a few years before that. Up until that time, arrangers had written only in treble clef and the majority of people had only read treble clef. I'm thinking that the logic for keeping treble clef for the bass voices was just out of convention--a 'why fix it if it ain't broke?' mentality. Maybe you can chime in on this Donny?

Where you end-up with different fingerings changing to bass clef: a written C from the treble clef part will no longer sound as a written C in bass clef. Therefore, for a G contra, part must be transposed for A horn to align note sounds with the fingers.

Edited October 18, 2007 by ravedodger

[JimF-LowBari]

I feel incredibly sorry for you that the horn you played defined drum corps for you.

Don't knock unless you've experienced the difference. Along with being in G the horns did not have upright valves which meant people who never heard of corps before could tell you were not in a band. Playing my piston/rotor beast was part of my experience also and I'm glad I came form a time when the differences between DC and MB were more than what you feel.