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BIG Idea for BIG Stadium Line of Thought


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Wow...tough crowd. Mike, look at my profile. I think I have my particulars listed there. Just cuz I've done something musical since my DC days doesn't mean I'm going to use "SUTA" in my screen name the rest of my life.

However, I frequently use the serial # from my DEG (G) for codes, sign-in's, etc. Geek that I am. And band-O to me is a term of endearment...I refer to myself pretty often from my pre-corps days as "King Band-O." I was.

Buses...yes. Dallas has more school buses coming in than corps buses. Can't be that hard getting buses from the bus barn. Or terribly expensive. Actually, try convincing me that it is more time consuming to book a couple or several buses than putting on a show...or hosting a corps. There are a whole mess of band directors who take their kids to these shows as enrichment or whatever. And, yes, to many of them it's just time away from M&D, or time in the back seat of the bus, or an opportunity to talk...I've sat near them, too. But if the only reason you do something is for the money or convenience of it being at your school (which I'm sure it's not, Mike), then I would have to say, sorry, there are literally thousands of other directors out there who would gladly bus their kids to the Cotton Bowl instead of Mesquite Memorial Stadium, or fill in the blanks for your locale. I'm proposing change, I realize. And I also realize how much we humans like change...I'm one of you, remember.

And here's another point that comes to mind...do fans come to shows to see the corps...or to go to Homer B. Fuddbutter stadium? I mean, Ratcliffe (sp?) Stadium in Odessa, TX is home to the Odessa Permian HS football team. 6 or so state championships. Big-time place. I don't care! Not my school, not my team. Go see a show there? No thanks. If that's the only show within driving distance? Well, maybe. But not because of the stadium. I've gone to the Alamodome the last two years, but not b/c it's in the Alamodome. Ugh. Too cold. Reverb. But all of the corps are there, and I haven't been able to get to finals in recent memory, so San Antone it is.

Anyone who thinks that a crowd won't go see corps b/c of the stadium its in check your logic. Rose Bowl didn't seem to hurt attendance. Neither did Mile High or Foxboro. Now, maybe we cut down on the number of shows in any particular region in favor of one at the BIG house (locally). Boston area, if memory serves correctly, has a pretty good number of shows. Warranted in that area due to the love for DC. Madison region, too. But only so many corps to go around can only make it around so far. And I would say that demand outpaces supply at this point. Several of you seem to be hanging on pretty tight to the idea of "your" local shows. Sorry, I have to take a step back and ask, "Is the idea of 'local shows' going to GROW DCI or STUNT its growth?" Now, we can each have our own opinions on that and argue/discuss those all day. But I maintain that bigger stadiums is the way to go.

And here's one more point, I think I've made somewhere else before, that I'd like to hear counterarguments to. I would put forward that if DCI is performing in NCAA and NFL stadiums almost exclusively, DCI and the corps take a leap forward in prestige, recognition, etc, even to the point that potential corporate partners take note when DCI comes knocking. "Oh, the BIG stadium DCI--yeah, thanks for calling us!" Instead of, "DCI? Yeah, you guys perform in HS stadiums, don't you?"

Again, we're talking about a scarce resource in the number of corps, and this whole topic sprouted forth from the idea that there aren't enough corps available to fill enough shows that every single local show from the 1970's when there were 400 corps can maintain "their" little local show! Sorry. Not my decision that 300+ corps aren't around any longer.

Think NFL, guys. Not my stadium argument but actual NFL football, now. Where are the franchises located? Yeah, yeah...Green Bay...little bitty population that it has...exception. Yeah, yeah...LA...no franchise...2nd biggest market in America. The franchises are, in general, located in the BIG markets, and they've got BIG stadiums as a result. If they played in some rural area or mid-major market, it might be a bit different. The NFL goes where the money is, and in general, that's where the population is. DCI needs to think about their touring model, alright. But I have no problem with national tours...did them twice, little problem. But national tours and local shows are kind of contradictory, and that's my point.

That, and if you put it in high-box stadiums, you can record it and broadcast it on the web, or at least make it available for download. Harder to do in a HS stadium with lower box (due to smaller capacity) and crosswinds (due to open ended designs). Don't think open stadiums is a problem? Should have heard Cadets at Dallas last summer...Hop running down aisle telling the board operator to "yank it!" when one of the mic's was picking up nice, strong Dallas crosswind. Didn't have that issue in Alamodome couple nights later. Yeah, yeah...indoors...didn't stop DCI from doing mid-season DVD in Atlanta.

Make mine a Dan Farrell bobblehead and I'm in! Would Hop's be in all black and bowing? :P Uniform bobbleheads...there's another idea!

And Mike, the corps can still use your HS to rehearse.

Now that's what I call a reply to a reply, and very polite also. You bring up many good points,some I don't agree with but I will wait till later to reply, sometime between being more awake and no so full of...............................stuffing and turkey.

One quick point: "Marching Music 's Major League" has become "over the head" of way too many people. It's their right to do what music they want, but just like the symphony, you are only going to cater to a niche group of mostly musically educated people with money to burn for pricey tickets. There is a reason that most symphony's "POPS" series is more profitable than their regular season. It allows them to do what they want to a half empty house because they do Joe Average's favorites in the off season. If you don't cater to what people WANT to see and hear you get empty seats. Besides, as a performer, Id rather play to a small PACKED house than to a half empty big house.

As far as stadiums, I can rent the local high school stadium that sits 5,000 on home side for $800, how much do you think a big stadium will cost the show sponser ?

Forget the bobble head dolls, I have the tee shirt that said " it's later than you think white rabbit"

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louder hornlines!!!!!!!!!!! louder hornlines will get ppl in the stands.....ok, so maybe thats a vague argument, but I like the idea! :P

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That's a great point! I was actually just reading one of Holton's points in the Hop vs Stewie thread and had kind of the same idea. If we're (meaning DCI) trying to head the direction of MBI, then some of my points are kind of irrelevent. If the point is to maintain the old 1970's fan base, well, then Phantom Regiment will eventually die or move, one or the other, cuz there ain't nobody being produced from Rockford these days! Same in Rosemont, someone else said a while back?? Course, they have Chicago right next door, too.

I guess the goal is not entertainment, or they would have not killed the broadcast. It can't be get the kids off the street and give them something posative, because it is way too expensive to march world class, and the smaller, local corps are just about all gone...

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you refer to yourself as "king bando?" sheeeeeeesh.

i dont think itd work, and i dont see how you can use the nfl as a comparison to dci as far as business models go.

youre also using the extremely wealthy and well-managed texas band programs as an example of what all high school bands across the country are like/capable of, and that poses problems too. if some band programs dont have the money to bus their kids in massive quantities to shows, then youll find a lot of people not being able to make it to the less-local shows. the idea of making things more convenient for band programs, or any groups that are arriving in large quantities, is pretty solid though. maybe some sharply reduced ticket prices for blocks of tickets being bought would help out.

"DCI? Yeah, you guys perform in HS stadiums, don't you?"

i highly doubt people have that reaction when drum and bugle corps is brought up to them.

30,000 total attendance for a Thursday night "local" show. Don't laugh.

i know youre the "dcp great idea guy" as told to me by your signature, but numbers like that will never be anywhere near the case in the indefinitely long history and future of drum and bugle corps, even if youre somehow voted dci's new executive director.

there's a good amount of band kids, parents, and corps kids especially, that would consider your "post-show autograph session" idea ridiculous. if the unfortunate future of drum corps is to make it into a super marching band circuit or something, then its even more crazy to assume that band kids will be so awestruck by corps members that they want them to sign pieces of paper or pictures or whatever for them. i know that and the rest of the ideas are well-intentioned, and i dont mean to be overly cynical or rude or anything, but i personally think a bunch of the ideas were way too idealistic and not rooted in enough facts or statistics.

Edited by Jared_mello
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"Mom and Pop" shows attract the casual fan.

Take that away, and start making every show ULTRA MEGA SHOWDOWN with expensive seats, huge stadiums and the like only does one thing...cannibalize the market you already have.

How many shows do you think little Timmy can go to with only limited disposable income? Not many, if you price him out of the market with only a ULTRA MEGA SHOWDOWN nearby...versus 3-4 smaller shows, maybe one with a master class, another where he watches the lot, and so on.

"Mom and Pop" shows encourage the casual fan, but delegitimize the activity as a sporting event.

ULTRA MEGA SHOWDOWNs get more publicity, general population recognition, and are generally more likely to attract folks who were not already interested.... well, maybe not that last one. I just realized that you may attract more 40-year olds by telling them there's this thing you want them to go to at the Georgia Dome it sounds a lot more enticing than telling them it's at Jacksonville High School, but on two conditions:

A- they don't attend JHS, know someone who does, or live anywhere near it;

B- They don't care about ticket prices or know that what they're paying is considered expensive.

Seeing as DCi should want to attract high-school-aged kids... they might actually be better off with at least a few mom/pop shows that are cheaper and less ULTRA MEGA.

still, though, if you want to hit as broad an audience as possible, go for the largest venues possible.

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Wow...tough crowd. Mike, look at my profile. I think I have my particulars listed there. Just cuz I've done something musical since my DC days doesn't mean I'm going to use "SUTA" in my screen name the rest of my life.

However, I frequently use the serial # from my DEG (G) for codes, sign-in's, etc. Geek that I am. And band-O to me is a term of endearment...I refer to myself pretty often from my pre-corps days as "King Band-O." I was.

Buses...yes. Dallas has more school buses coming in than corps buses. Can't be that hard getting buses from the bus barn. Or terribly expensive. Actually, try convincing me that it is more time consuming to book a couple or several buses than putting on a show...or hosting a corps. There are a whole mess of band directors who take their kids to these shows as enrichment or whatever. And, yes, to many of them it's just time away from M&D, or time in the back seat of the bus, or an opportunity to talk...I've sat near them, too. But if the only reason you do something is for the money or convenience of it being at your school (which I'm sure it's not, Mike), then I would have to say, sorry, there are literally thousands of other directors out there who would gladly bus their kids to the Cotton Bowl instead of Mesquite Memorial Stadium, or fill in the blanks for your locale. I'm proposing change, I realize. And I also realize how much we humans like change...I'm one of you, remember.

And here's another point that comes to mind...do fans come to shows to see the corps...or to go to Homer B. Fuddbutter stadium? I mean, Ratcliffe (sp?) Stadium in Odessa, TX is home to the Odessa Permian HS football team. 6 or so state championships. Big-time place. I don't care! Not my school, not my team. Go see a show there? No thanks. If that's the only show within driving distance? Well, maybe. But not because of the stadium. I've gone to the Alamodome the last two years, but not b/c it's in the Alamodome. Ugh. Too cold. Reverb. But all of the corps are there, and I haven't been able to get to finals in recent memory, so San Antone it is.

Anyone who thinks that a crowd won't go see corps b/c of the stadium its in check your logic. Rose Bowl didn't seem to hurt attendance. Neither did Mile High or Foxboro. Now, maybe we cut down on the number of shows in any particular region in favor of one at the BIG house (locally). Boston area, if memory serves correctly, has a pretty good number of shows. Warranted in that area due to the love for DC. Madison region, too. But only so many corps to go around can only make it around so far. And I would say that demand outpaces supply at this point. Several of you seem to be hanging on pretty tight to the idea of "your" local shows. Sorry, I have to take a step back and ask, "Is the idea of 'local shows' going to GROW DCI or STUNT its growth?" Now, we can each have our own opinions on that and argue/discuss those all day. But I maintain that bigger stadiums is the way to go.

And here's one more point, I think I've made somewhere else before, that I'd like to hear counterarguments to. I would put forward that if DCI is performing in NCAA and NFL stadiums almost exclusively, DCI and the corps take a leap forward in prestige, recognition, etc, even to the point that potential corporate partners take note when DCI comes knocking. "Oh, the BIG stadium DCI--yeah, thanks for calling us!" Instead of, "DCI? Yeah, you guys perform in HS stadiums, don't you?"

Again, we're talking about a scarce resource in the number of corps, and this whole topic sprouted forth from the idea that there aren't enough corps available to fill enough shows that every single local show from the 1970's when there were 400 corps can maintain "their" little local show! Sorry. Not my decision that 300+ corps aren't around any longer.

Think NFL, guys. Not my stadium argument but actual NFL football, now. Where are the franchises located? Yeah, yeah...Green Bay...little bitty population that it has...exception. Yeah, yeah...LA...no franchise...2nd biggest market in America. The franchises are, in general, located in the BIG markets, and they've got BIG stadiums as a result. If they played in some rural area or mid-major market, it might be a bit different. The NFL goes where the money is, and in general, that's where the population is. DCI needs to think about their touring model, alright. But I have no problem with national tours...did them twice, little problem. But national tours and local shows are kind of contradictory, and that's my point.

That, and if you put it in high-box stadiums, you can record it and broadcast it on the web, or at least make it available for download. Harder to do in a HS stadium with lower box (due to smaller capacity) and crosswinds (due to open ended designs). Don't think open stadiums is a problem? Should have heard Cadets at Dallas last summer...Hop running down aisle telling the board operator to "yank it!" when one of the mic's was picking up nice, strong Dallas crosswind. Didn't have that issue in Alamodome couple nights later. Yeah, yeah...indoors...didn't stop DCI from doing mid-season DVD in Atlanta.

Make mine a Dan Farrell bobblehead and I'm in! Would Hop's be in all black and bowing? :P Uniform bobbleheads...there's another idea!

And Mike, the corps can still use your HS to rehearse.

I'm sorry you're so ignorant

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Hm. I feel like most of the posts in this thread have been made by negative people with pre-existing negative opinions of the poster, and thus, his (notably substantive and forward-thinking) post...whatever...maybe this is why almost no one in drum corps respects DCP. But I digress.

quote for truth.

I like the idea for the: inviting and bringing more high school students to the shows. but having less shows may not be as rewarding. depending on the destination of the shows.

For example.....

I reside in arizona, in Glendale (near Phoenix) and I attend The Academy's Southwest Corps Connections each year. I noticed this year a slight decline in the population that attended. This was because more people wanted to go to the big regional in Phoenix later on in the summer.

If they had more big shows, the little shows (in some areas) will get sort of "ignored". but contrasting that idea,

let's say we are in a town in the middle of texas, or another state, with nothing really nearby for 100 or 200 miles. (no big stadium to use) you can still have your small shows in places like this. Maybe all the big shows would be for the big cities?

This way corps can still perform a lot, maybe less if some small shows in larger cities are taken over by larger shows, and maybe they would add a few more big stadiums to perform in to add to the "drum corps tour experience". that's what I think. maybe its a long shot but it would be cool.

what do you guys think?

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Bad attitude <**> <**> <**> <**>

Since it seems you added the "you so ignorant" comment, whould you mind saying exactly WHO that is directed to ?

I'd hate to go on a rant directed to the wrong person because of a misunderstanding.

Thanks in advance

Signed:

One who is sometimes called ignorant, among OTHER names.

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"Mom and Pop" shows encourage the casual fan, but delegitimize the activity as a sporting event.

ULTRA MEGA SHOWDOWNs get more publicity, general population recognition,

Really?

I bet you can name most any city that hosts or has hosted a major competition...Atlanta, Indianapolis, San Antonio, Miami, Orlando, Birmingham, Dallas, KC...and the "general population" would have no idea what DCI was nor that there was any kind of competition in town (the most notable and possibly the only exception would be Madison).

Most cities that have a large stadium, especially those with NFL franchises, would never know that DCI had blown through town. For those cities, an event like ours that might draw 10k-15k fans or less is chump change. These cities are used to hosting events for 50K-75K people...adults that will come to town, possibly stay the night, spend money, and help improve the local economy temporarily. Thus, those events are usually pretty well known to the general population. But a DCI competition?

Besides, who cares if it delegitimizes our activity as a "sporting event"? Is that our main concern?

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